Not By Works

[FranC]

Thats just it

Half are saying our works are a byproduct of our faith. That those who have true faiht will work. and not be like the world. and those who continue in sin have no faith (their faith is dead) Yet being told by the other half we hate works, or deny they are necessary, That "work" is a bad word and we love sin.

Half are saying we maintain our salvation by our works. then deny they teach salvation by works.

Thats why this thread continues..

as for the peacemakers. read pauls letters the same thing has been going on since the church started. Grace vs religion (works) it will stop when Christ returns and it gets settled once and for all.

THE ABOVE IS NOT CORRECT.

If that were the case, I'd have been gone a LONG time ago.
(I have ironing to do after all )


What SOME HERE are saying is that "works" ARE NOT NECESSARY because Jesus has already done it all.

IOW, We are not here to serve God because God is here to SERVE US, and to do EVERYTHING for us.

THAT is why we're still here.

 

[garee]

I am confused what exactly would insult God?
My kids try and tie their shoes.,, I help them.,,they run off and tell dad that THEY TIED THEIR SHOES.....Which they did with help.

Neither I nor their dad get mad at that.

I'm the same.d way if people say they did good works and don't always mention how the Holy spirit helped them or they did them for God's glory....I don't believe God would be mad or insulted.

I experience the same with my Grandsons they want to be recognized as if they are all grown up I don’t think it is so much he would get mad but would work with the child to help them let go of chilish things as far as them taking credit for a work they did not perform .Not something on the long road a person should encourage .

God whose name is Jealous, seeing he owns all things he makes one person differ from another and hopefully when children do put away some childish things as the child gets older like for instance… if you help him by lending the car and he says it was his to begin with. Things could turn out different. I am not one either who pronounces every move they make and say God moved me. I have had friends like that who seemed that every word was praise Jesus, it worked for them.

I believe the Holy Spirit would be grieved if people don't understand that God will still love them even if they don't try and make a lumpy pinched pot and call it good works.

I would agree with that It is not the work of the salvation of their soul

God's love frees us to want to help and love others. However walking with the Holy spirit gives us the fruit and maturity to be able to actually help others

.

Yes He does give us a mature desire to do the will of another, His will. The transition from milk to meat if there is one can be grievous and different everyone is handled a little differently as the Holy Spirit does form Christ in them as He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. If we say it was our own will that moved us then we could have something to be falsely proud of like the grandson for tying his own shoes. My suggestions are more about principles as laws how they work out differ like fingerprints. There is no work we could do get saved or to maintain it.

 

[FranC]

see, I rest my case.

Assumptions based on what she thinks..

ps. Not all baptist believe in eternal security.. A fact I am sure you did not know.

No EG.

MMD has stated many times that HE BELIEVES IN OSAS.

I'm very careful when I listen to people.
I'm very careful about what I post.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I once met a Mormon who had received the Holy Spirit. I was so shocked I couldn't even gather my wits. I kept wondering HOW it was possible when they believe so many wrong things! I think that was the very exact moment that I realized that one must not have perfect understanding or perfect doctrine/systematic theology in order to be saved. And it makes "come out of her my people" make perfect sense.

 

[blue_ladybug]

..................

 

[FranC]

Yeah, baptists.
The whole congregations votes on everything.
very democratic
where is that in the Bible?
Some baptist say you get baptized in their church or it doesn't count.
Some baptists say KJV only or it's the devil's bible.
Some baptists say grape juice is all through the Bible, not wine.
Some baptists say taking a drink of alcohol or smoking a cigarette is a sin against God and they all look down on you.
Some baptists get peeved if the pastor preaches one minute too long because then they'll have to wait in line at the restaurant.

And some people are proud to say their church is just like a baptist.
Frankly, I'd rather go to an SDA church.
I know a lot of born again Christians in those churches.

Thanks.

Great points !!

 

[AllenW]

Ralph, or a reasonable facsimile delivered my pizza from Papa John's last week.

Yes, Ralph is capable of anything.

 

[UnderGrace]

Please clarify?

"works" ARE NOT NECESSARY

When do we say they are not necessary? The bible says they are never necessary to be saved.

When do you say they are necessary?

THE ABOVE IS NOT CORRECT.

If that were the case, I'd have been gone a LONG time ago.
(I have ironing to do after all )


What SOME HERE are saying is that "works" ARE NOT NECESSARY because Jesus has already done it all.

IOW, We are not here to serve God because God is here to SERVE US, and to do EVERYTHING for us.

THAT is why we're still here.

 

[FranC]

OSAS isn't a "Baptist Doctrine" nor is it unbiblical.

Rather, it is a biblical doctrine, and isn't believed only by Baptists, but also by the Reformed which includes much more than the Baptist community.

It is a doctrine that the church has held to throughout history; it is biblical, orthodox and sound. Sounds to me that some need to lose their salvation and exchange it for His.

It was held THROUGHOUT HISTORY???

And what HISTORY would that be?
Luther and Calvin came around in the 1500's.

The Church was here 1,500 years BEFORE OSAS even was believed or accepted by THE CHURCH.

You could give us a little history if you like.

OSAS is not only unbibical, it is probably the worst of all HERESIES.

A heresy is any belief that is not accepted by the general Church.
The general Church --- all mainline denominational churches -- DO NOT BELIEVE IN ETERNAL SECURITY.

Salvation can be lost, and it would do all good to realize this and not depend on Jesus to accept them even if they sin -- which is basically what OSAS teaches. As much as they like to say it doesn't...

 

[PennEd]

I once met a Mormon who had received the Holy Spirit. I was so shocked I couldn't even gather my wits. I kept wondering HOW it was possible when they believe so many wrong things! I think that was the very exact moment that I realized that one must not have perfect understanding or perfect doctrine/systematic theology in order to be saved. And it makes "come out of her my people" make perfect sense.

How did you know they received the Holy Spirit?

 

[Ariel82]

Hello, fellow with the screen name that you have to read real carefully.

Very true, the early church met on Sunday's in celebration of the resurrection, and Fran knows that better than all of us. The early Catholic church is who made it a law (I'm not kidding) to keep the ceremonial law. That's why we are what we are today. Some people are adamant that Sunday is the actual Sabbath Day. Some think that God himself instituted the traditions we Christians follow every Sunday and throughout the year. And which is why they think they are sinning if they don't do that.

Then they would be as wrong as those who condemn people for NOT keeping the Sabbath laws on Saturday.

Perhaps God will reveal His truth to them in time and if they truly seek Him.

 

[AllenW]

Thanks.

Great points !!

I think Ralph goes to an SDA church, among other churches.
He's not against any of them, as long as they worship Jesus.

 

[blue_ladybug]

From one nut to another, thank you for the rep comment..

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View attachment 173136

 

[UnderGrace]

Well then if ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED is a lie

THEN it stands to reason that ONCE LOST, ALWAYS LOST must be true?

or

maybe is ONCE LOST, SOMETIMES FOUND or maybe it is SOMETIMES FOUND, SOMETIMES LOST ?

I could keep going.....

Here is what the Bible says,

Romans 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

By the way if you studied history you would know there has always been a remnant of believers that knew about eternal life in Jesus gained when we are born again. The RCC persecuted them and they went into hiding.

It was held THROUGHOUT HISTORY???

And what HISTORY would that be?
Luther and Calvin came around in the 1500's.

The Church was here 1,500 years BEFORE OSAS even was believed or accepted by THE CHURCH.

You could give us a little history if you like.

OSAS is not only unbibical, it is probably the worst of all HERESIES.

A heresy is any belief that is not accepted by the general Church.
The general Church --- all mainline denominational churches -- DO NOT BELIEVE IN ETERNAL SECURITY.

Salvation can be lost, and it would do all good to realize this and not depend on Jesus to accept them even if they sin -- which is basically what OSAS teaches. As much as they like to say it doesn't...

 

[Grace777x70]

I think Ralph goes to an SDA church, among other churches.
He's not against any of them, as long as they worship Jesus.

Who is Ralph? I can only think of Ralph Waldo Emmerson..lol

 

[Ariel82]

What's to understand.

This is Christianity 101.

When do we get passed it?

When the whole world heard the gospel and walks with the Holy spirit or gets tossed in hell.

Why would we want to move past the simplicity found in Christ?

Why should we NOT preach the gospel or Christianity 101?

Once people are saved, doesn't the Holy spirit teach them more? Doesn't God draw them?

If they aren't being taught to live godly lives and are not chastened for their sins and do not draw closer to God....then should we NOT check their understanding of the basics and make sure they have ALL the gospel and not just half?

Many just preach the cross without the ressurection and walking with the Holy spirit....this leads to a dead faith without fruit or good works.

Others preach only of walking in obedience to God's laws without the cross or the Holy spirit, this leads to legalism and works based salvation.

The Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the third day. He ascended to heaven and sends the Holy spirit that allows us to be called children of God. we are to die to our old selves and be born again by following the Holy spirit.

Take any of that out and you get half the gospel that leads to deception and false doctrines.

 

[FranC]

I studied the bible.

I see the catholic churhc

They do not even compair.

Apostolic succession? Where is that found in the bible?

Funny.
Try studying some history.
Not EVERYTHING is in the bible.

 

[preacher4truth]

How did you know they received the Holy Spirit?

Exactly...

 

[AllenW]

I did not say I would rather go to any church. except A non denominationa church.

Thanks for assuming..

I'd watch for those non'denominational churches if I were you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

How did you know they received the Holy Spirit?

Well, we were talking and the Holy Spirit washed over me and I was covered in those goosebumps that make tears spring to your eyes and I looked up and saw the same tears in his eyes and the same goosebumps and I said, the Spirit just washed strongly over me and I see that this has happened with you too. He said, yes, when I talk about Jesus with someone else, this happens because He comes in our midst. He said this is what his people call "a swelling in the bosom."

We talked for a long time, but I believe the other young man with him did not like some that was said between us and reported him because he asked if he could come back and talk with me some more because he had some more questions for me. He asked if he could come again on a certain day a few days hence and I said, are you free tomorrow afternoon? He said, Yes! I will come then! But the other young man came back with an older man instead and they told me the first young man had been called away elsewhere.