Not By Works
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S
truly glad you asked that question and thanks for the return hug
I just ate lunch and just want to answer yr question before I get back to work.
this experience was totally against my will, I did nothing to make it happen and I don't know what happened...I was not aware...only aware I was OBE as you say
I was saved and desiring to 'serve' God but quite young. through a family member, we became involved with a well known 'evangelist' (at the time and I won't name him...no purpose to it now and I'm really a pretty private person)
there were suspicions about this individual, but he had hundreds...literally hundreds...of invitations to conduct 'crusades' in Pentecostal churches across the US and some in Canada
I got to know him very well. he was thrown out of his denom and excommunicated. he was a practicing sexual deviant (no...he never touched me but he did slap me across the face one time when I innocently said he looked tired)
there were plenty of strange goings on. my experience was one and many other people suffered things while being involved
years later, when I was counselling with someone and praying with them, another woman and it was just the 2 of us...she had asked for help but I will never go alone again..not even same sex..as I was reading from the Bible and asking her to participate (she was a believer) I felt strange all of a sudden. we were across the living room from each other and I don't remember what she was saying...but I remember the look on her face.
I started to feel as I had when I had the OBE. I immediately shut it all down. She was involved in sexual fantasies and imagined someone in love with her. I was trying to bring her out of that deception. The man whom she fancied in love with her, thought she had mental problems.
it is my experience that those that have sexual demons attached to them have influence over others and some know they have this influence and enjoy it and others are oblivious and as much a victim of the demon as the ones bothered by it. not everyone will be 'bothered'. the Bible is clear that we should run from sexual sins. that is my best advice also
this is not an isolated thing. people are embarrassed to talk about this kind of thing but it is actually common.
I am not saying people are demon possessed. I do not see in scripture where believers are possessed by the devil. Influenced, bothered, even directed by...whatever, but we do know our enemies are spiritual and far more cunning then many will concede.
I don't make it my business to look into things like that, but if you do know something, sometimes someone will ask for help or need counselling.
now that's a long answer and maybe more than you would want to hear, but that's what happened
this same woman that I tried to help was involved in extra-biblical beliefs and loved how so called special knowledge made her feel superior and important. it also turned out that she had had several so called 'spiritual' involvements with men, thinking they were attracted to her or in love with her
You forgot the rest:
John 3:17-21
John 3:36
John 3:17-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [a]only begotten Son of God.
19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
John 3:36 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the
Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
It's nice to choose only the verses we tend to like.
The problem is that the bible is a COMPLETE book and must be read as a Whole.
Jesus did not come to judge the world because it's already judged...
Those who believe in Him and do His will are saved.
Those who do not believe in Him are not saved.
So if He didn't come to judge, what did He come for?
To save.
From what?
From the grip of satan.
Which means that we are no longer slaves to satan.
And our ways will no longer be wicked. On those the wrath of God will rest.
But we are to obey Christ.
Obey what?
What did He tell us to do?
Anything??
John 3:17-21
John 3:36
John 3:17-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [a]only begotten Son of God.
19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
John 3:36 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the
Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
It's nice to choose only the verses we tend to like.
The problem is that the bible is a COMPLETE book and must be read as a Whole.
Jesus did not come to judge the world because it's already judged...
Those who believe in Him and do His will are saved.
Those who do not believe in Him are not saved.
So if He didn't come to judge, what did He come for?
To save.
From what?
From the grip of satan.
Which means that we are no longer slaves to satan.
And our ways will no longer be wicked. On those the wrath of God will rest.
But we are to obey Christ.
Obey what?
What did He tell us to do?
Anything??
First of all, I wish everybody would post the entire post.
I don't even remember what we were talking about.
So it's difficult for me to answer you.
I don't think ANYBODY on this thread is under the Law.
I do believe we're all under the New Covenant.
Why would you think anybody is under the OC if Jesus has died and HIS TESTAMENT has taken effect??
I don't even remember what we were talking about.
So it's difficult for me to answer you.
I don't think ANYBODY on this thread is under the Law.
I do believe we're all under the New Covenant.
Why would you think anybody is under the OC if Jesus has died and HIS TESTAMENT has taken effect??
Not fully sure what you are saying here.
Mainly with your last sentence.
I do agree with your first sentence. I believe a believer cannot be possessed by a demon but I do believe a they can be oppressed and give a foothold that can cause spiritual problems.
Firstly with sexual sins as you say.
But also
Ephesians 4:26-27
26 And “don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry,27 for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
If anger gives a foothold then that anger distorts our walk.
We don't forgive, we become bitter, self focused, withdraw, detract, lack love.
That then will affect our walk with God as well. Surely it has to.
If I have got your post wrong then I'm sorry and disregard my post.
Mainly with your last sentence.
I do agree with your first sentence. I believe a believer cannot be possessed by a demon but I do believe a they can be oppressed and give a foothold that can cause spiritual problems.
Firstly with sexual sins as you say.
But also
Ephesians 4:26-27
26 And “don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry,27 for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
If anger gives a foothold then that anger distorts our walk.
We don't forgive, we become bitter, self focused, withdraw, detract, lack love.
That then will affect our walk with God as well. Surely it has to.
If I have got your post wrong then I'm sorry and disregard my post.
The Jews lol dont me started hahaha... seariously being circumsised in the heart i know but what the the gentiles dont realise is it as the same process for the None gentiles at that time..
To understand this you need to imagine that the Jews where the finished work in the father.. and so if you lived in that time you would be considered not the finished work of christ coz you where not circumsised..
circusising was for the jews only..how ever it was to be the finished work of the father in them befor Jesus the circumsising of the heart as you put it...
…13"A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14"But an un circumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin,that person shall be cutoff from his people; he has broken My covenant."
How ever circumsising of the heart is what exactly ? salvation ? a type of salvation ? being connected to the vineyard ? having his laws written on all of every women man on the face of this earth from the least to the greatest ? ... hmmmmm mayb you have something i dont know please enlighten me
To understand this you need to imagine that the Jews where the finished work in the father.. and so if you lived in that time you would be considered not the finished work of christ coz you where not circumsised..
circusising was for the jews only..how ever it was to be the finished work of the father in them befor Jesus the circumsising of the heart as you put it...
…13"A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14"But an un circumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin,that person shall be cutoff from his people; he has broken My covenant."
How ever circumsising of the heart is what exactly ? salvation ? a type of salvation ? being connected to the vineyard ? having his laws written on all of every women man on the face of this earth from the least to the greatest ? ... hmmmmm mayb you have something i dont know please enlighten me
The New Covenant is an unconditional covenant.
Unilateral.
God will accomplish it whether we want to or not.
God's grace, mercy, love and acceptance will be for all nations.
Thus fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant.
But each one has a sign that is to be taken.
The sign of the Abrahamic Covenant is circumcision... to show that these people belonged
to God. To separate them from everyone else.
The New Covenant also has a sign:
Baptism.
Although God will accomplish the New Covenant unilaterally whether or not we want it to be accomplished,
we do have to accept the sign of Batptism.
It separates us from everyone else. Just like circumcision did.
IT SEPARATES US FROM EVERYONE ELSE.
Why?
Because once we decide to join the NC and are baptized, we agree to accept the Holy Spirit and thus
a change is created in our lives.
The OC could reveal transgression, but it could not CHANGE BEHAVIOR.
Obedience is still required --- sorry if these words offend some; I find that rather unfortunate.
But in the NC an internal transformation takes place, they will know God (Jeremiah 31:34)
He will be their God and they will be His people.
No one here is under the Law. We should stop saying that.
We here are all under the New Covenant - or we don't believe in Jesus as we should.
§Sorry, I got carried away...
Unilateral.
God will accomplish it whether we want to or not.
God's grace, mercy, love and acceptance will be for all nations.
Thus fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant.
But each one has a sign that is to be taken.
The sign of the Abrahamic Covenant is circumcision... to show that these people belonged
to God. To separate them from everyone else.
The New Covenant also has a sign:
Baptism.
Although God will accomplish the New Covenant unilaterally whether or not we want it to be accomplished,
we do have to accept the sign of Batptism.
It separates us from everyone else. Just like circumcision did.
IT SEPARATES US FROM EVERYONE ELSE.
Why?
Because once we decide to join the NC and are baptized, we agree to accept the Holy Spirit and thus
a change is created in our lives.
The OC could reveal transgression, but it could not CHANGE BEHAVIOR.
Obedience is still required --- sorry if these words offend some; I find that rather unfortunate.
But in the NC an internal transformation takes place, they will know God (Jeremiah 31:34)
He will be their God and they will be His people.
No one here is under the Law. We should stop saying that.
We here are all under the New Covenant - or we don't believe in Jesus as we should.
§Sorry, I got carried away...
Mind you the Gentiles could be part of the OC if they wished.
Exodus 12:47-49
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”
Exodus 12:47-49
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”
Gentiles were not God's chosen.
§So what are you saying?
We all know this.
But they also knew about keeping God's Laws.
They knew about the Natural Law...
Romans 2:13-15
Romans 2:13-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 for it is not the hearers [a]of the Law who are just before God, but the doers [c]of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have [d]the Law do [e]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [f]the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
§So what are you saying?
We all know this.
But they also knew about keeping God's Laws.
They knew about the Natural Law...
Romans 2:13-15
Romans 2:13-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 for it is not the hearers [a]of the Law who are just before God, but the doers [c]of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have [d]the Law do [e]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [f]the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
You say the NC is unconditional but you post that it is.
You have often posted that obedience is required to stay saved.
The OC was also conditional.
Keep My commands and I will bless you.
Sins and disobedience was covered by various sacrifices.
What do you mean by "we have to accept the sign of the baptism?
Do you believe unless we are baptised then we are not part of the NC? If not then is internal transformation negated.
You have said when baptised we receive the Holy Spirit.
My 14 year old daughter has not been baptised, but believes in Jesus. Does she not have the Holy Spirit in her?
You posted earlier
Romans 1:19-20
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
My guess is that such people are not baptised. Not heard of Jesus and what he has asked of us.
Are they still saved having not been baptised?
You have often posted that obedience is required to stay saved.
The OC was also conditional.
Keep My commands and I will bless you.
Sins and disobedience was covered by various sacrifices.
What do you mean by "we have to accept the sign of the baptism?
Do you believe unless we are baptised then we are not part of the NC? If not then is internal transformation negated.
You have said when baptised we receive the Holy Spirit.
My 14 year old daughter has not been baptised, but believes in Jesus. Does she not have the Holy Spirit in her?
You posted earlier
Romans 1:19-20
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
My guess is that such people are not baptised. Not heard of Jesus and what he has asked of us.
Are they still saved having not been baptised?