Not By Works

[willybob]

matt 13 Said about good soil, there is a Christian that endureth in persecution, but there is a Christian that not endureth in persecution.

Christian are protected and save If he keep abide to the vine.

but there is Rocky type Christian in matt 13 that lose they salvation If there is persecution.

very true, and the others went back to the world because the seed/word was sown among thorns/cares of this life..Demas, a fellow worker with Paul, went back to the cares of this world and fell from the faith.Jesus asked His disciples this question; if you don't understand the parable of the sower how are you able to understand the other parables?..................be blessed

 

[willybob]

The passage doesn't say they 'didn't really believe'. OSAS has taught the church to instantly interpret soil #2 as the person who never 'really' believed. I just go with what Jesus said: "they believe for a while" (Luke 8:13 NASB). Soil #2 believed for a while. That's what it says.



He did include that scenario. That's soil #3...

"22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. " (Matthew 13:22 NASB)




Correct. There is no mention of choking or withering in soil #4. It's good soil, that's why it's that way. If soil #4 doesn't keep his 'garden' weeded, his soil will become as soil #3 in which those weeds "choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful." (Matthew 13:22 NASB).

very true indeed Phart,,, Jesus said they received the word with joy;

 

[willybob]

very true, and the others went back to the world because the seed/word was sown among thorns/cares of this life..Demas, a fellow worker with Paul, went back to the cares of this world and fell from the faith.Jesus asked His disciples this question; if you don't understand the parable of the sower how are you able to understand the other parables?..................be blessed

this by the way is the reason many do not understand the parable of the prodigal son, in that they are not grounded in their understanding of the parable of the sower.......

 

[stillness]

very true, and the others went back to the world because the seed/word was sown among thorns/cares of this life..Demas, a fellow worker with Paul, went back to the cares of this world and fell from the faith.Jesus asked His disciples this question; if you don't understand the parable of the sower how are you able to understand the other parables?..................be blessed

"whoever seeks to save His life will lose it, (refers to our selfish works), and whoever looses his life for My sake and My message will find it."
"You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt losses it's Saviour, it's good for nothing but to be thrown out (on ice)and trampled by men.
From Paul, "What things were gain for me I counted loss for Christ... I have suffered the loss of all things that I may gain Christ."

 

[willybob]

Jeremiah 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; (sin abound in the land, as the whole chapter codifies )
5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will you do in the end thereof?

In concert with what Paul said’ “because of their lustful sin do they heap upon themselves teachers having itching ears…

be blessed

 

[royalscot]

this by the way is the reason many do not understand the parable of the prodigal son, in that they are not grounded in their understanding of the parable of the sower.......

without an understanding to logic or reasoning, to the parable prodigal son,

after get an inheritance from the father, the question remains ,when did you get that inheritance.
if you already have that inheritance, would you need to be alive or dead, to spend that inheritance, as you see fit.

 

[royalscot]

well then hush and don't tell her I have the same lack of fondness that you have identified

touch not mine idol.....annotated....oh wait I'll get it yet......annoying...no. no that's not it either. you know, what they say when a false prophet starts mouthing off and some silly person says...'ahem. I don't believe that is actually God? hello? ' and someone goes 'don't touch my...dog! still getting it mixed up. let me try again

'don't touch mine anointed.' got it this time.

they get to thinking they are gods so they think they have the right to call a false prophet an annointed cherub. uh...er..the guy who speaks on behalf of the Almighty...ok...that's it

yet, when God DID speak, and allowed the false spirit on Todd Bentely to manifest with adultery, death in those he said were healed, angel worship (emma...who can forget her...it... whatever) and punching a man in the stomach with cancer (in the stomach) WHAM BAM...(he actually said that...Todd, not the poor man), telling him he was healed and then not even attending the funeral when the man died NOT LONG AFTER.

why do I bring up Todd? because Bill was at the inaugurational ball...the false apostles anointing the false prophet/healer and giving him the right hand of hypocrisy and lying wonders

and bill, told everyone to kiss and makeup and Todd was forgiven. just like that. even a Catholic priest would have taken pause, but no, these dudes just gave him time off for the STRESS HE WAS UNDER and then let him back in

wisdom is not only crying out in the streets

wisdom is bleeding all over the streets and these fakirs (yes I spelled that right look it up and for pete sakes don't argue over the meaning it only has one) have stepped over her as she is pulling on their trousers and looking into their hard faces and begging them to stop

I'll stop too now

wake up

the strange thing about falsehood, it never ask, how it would get out, of there own slander. with free will, you have proven

opinion is one thing, freedom to speak an other.

was the bible written just for you , to understand, what slander means,

you define false prophet, yet cannot understand , who appointed you judge. etc

 

[royalscot]

very true indeed Phart,,, Jesus said they received the word with joy;

Originally Posted by PHart

The passage doesn't say they 'didn't really believe'. OSAS has taught the church to instantly interpret soil #2 as the person who never 'really' believed. I just go with what Jesus said: "they believe for a while" (Luke 8:13 NASB). Soil #2 believed for a while. That's what it says.



He did include that scenario. That's soil #3...

"22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. " (Matthew 13:22 NASB)




Correct. There is no mention of choking or withering in soil #4. It's good soil, that's why it's that way. If soil #4 doesn't keep his 'garden' weeded, his soil will become as soil #3 in which those weeds "choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful." (Matthew 13:22 NASB).



very true indeed Phart,,, Jesus said they received the word with joy;




jesus healed gentile, illnesses, etc
jesus said let the fathers, will be done ,in his life.
peter said.

.5 And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter acts 10
"You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. (acts 10)
jesus healed gentile, illnesses,



Cornelius the gentile received the holy spirit with joy,

45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

if your quote missed out ,when the fruit of the spirit, could be defined, as fruit of the spirit, you would have to ask ,ware was jesus, at the time , the holy spirit was given to humans. etc

 

[FranC]

Your right, it is a problem, In fact, what we have here is what I think is circular reasoning? (every point you made to support your position can also support my position)

1. If you think belief and faith are the same, You will come to wrong conclusions
2. It is obvious you do not understand the meaning of the word belief, or the word faith.
3. know why? it does not support your belief system.
4. Its not up to me to convince you what faith means, that is not what I am hear for.

As you can see, these are what you call circular argments which do not support your view or mine, We need more than this.

As for the rest, You have a dictionary meaning, which really did not support your view. It may it may not, but we need more than that.

I gave actual life examples. and as usual you did not even discuss those examples to show me where I got it wrong.

Here is another example. I do not have faith it will change your view, But there is always hope.

a man runs a line across the Niagara falls, and puts a rock into a wheel barrow which is about 150 lbs (the average weight of a human) this man makes multiple trips across this line with the rock, proving he has the ability to take a human across the falls. Of course, one wrong move, and both the man and the human would fall to their death.

After 5 trips. the man asks a crowd of about 100 people who had seen what he did, Do you believe I can take a human across in this wheel barrow. All 100 say yes.

Then the man asks, Ok, prove your faith, who will get in the wheel barrow and let me take them across.

No one raises their hand..

why?

They believe the man can do it, They have seen him walk across 5 times with an object which weighs the same as they do.

However, Non of them have FAITH (are assured) he can do it, they are not willing to put their lives in this mans hand, because they do not trust him.

They have belief, they DO NOT have faith.

in the same token, Many people belief jesus when he says he will save them, based on the cross. However, many do not have faith he can do it, and are not willing to put their eternity in the hands of a person they can not see.


not to mention, We have james, where people had belief in Jesus, but had a dead faith. which is no faith at all.

so I have now given you two life examples. and a biblical example. What you do with it, is out of my hands, I can just pray you see it.

The people you are talking about had no fruit. So your claiming a person can produce no fruit (no works) and still be saved. Are you sure you want to walk with that line of reasoning?

As for your final line,

I refer you to a great song, maybe you have sang it before? if you have not, look it up. if you have, I pray you actually see what the song says.

Jesus paid it all...

1. I hear the Savior say,
   “Thy strength indeed is small;
   Child of weakness, watch and pray,
   Find in Me thine all in all.”
   • Refrain:
     Jesus paid it all,
     All to Him I owe;
     Sin had left a crimson stain,
     He washed it white as snow.
2. For nothing good have I
   Whereby Thy grace to claim;
   I’ll wash my garments white
   In the blood of Calv’ry’s Lamb.
3. And now complete in Him,
   My robe, His righteousness,
   Close sheltered ’neath His side,
   I am divinely blest.
4. Lord, now indeed I find
   Thy pow’r, and Thine alone,
   Can change the *leper’s spots [*leopard’s]
   And melt the heart of stone.
5. When from my dying bed
   My ransomed soul shall rise,
   “Jesus died my soul to save,”
   Shall rend the vaulted skies.
6. And when before the throne
   I stand in Him complete,
   I’ll lay my trophies down,
   All down at Jesus’ feet.

Hi EG

I do apologize if I don't answer all your posts. This thread just goes too fast for me.

I just saw the above...

The song... I believe it comes from an operetta which was sung for Easter by the choir I was in, many years ago. Very beautiful, BTW.

As to the life experiences, I do understand what you're talking about.
Trouble is that when the N.T. speaks of BELIEVE, it means the believe as explained in the meanings I posted, AND they aren't even from theology! The explanation of BELIEVE from theology means even MORE. I used to explain it really well when I first got here, about 500 pages ago. But, to no avail.

Those here who like to post Greek meanings all the time have NEVER explained the word Believe in the Greek meaning - which is, after all, the Language of the bible so Believe MUST MEAN what the Greek Language meant it to be.

As to the barrel across Niagra. Sure. No one had FAITH in Him.
But we're speaking on this thread about persons who HAVE FAITH ---
Persons who do not have faith, are not saved persons.

If one believes in Jesus, WHO IS GOD,
he must also have FAITH IN HIM.

Otherwise it means they don't have faith in God !!

I think I mentioned this in another post of mine Yesterday, 20 pages ago.

OK. So it seems like you're agreeing with me.
If someone has faith, it must be followed by good deeds or works.
Otherwise, as you've correctly stated, their faith is dead.

So, you see, if it's possible to have dead faith, it has to mean that if we believe we are to have
a faith that is alive.

BELIEF AND FAITH go hand and hand.

Sometimes we use human examples, as you've done and which I've done, but we Always have to remember ù
that we ARE SPEAKING ABOUT GOD when discussing the N.T.

Your barrel story is not the BELIEVE of the N.T.

Sometimes when we speak we say "believe" when we really mean "think".
example:

"I think I could come to the movies with you"
"I believe I could come to the movies with you"

Humanly speaking, they mean the same to some persons.

But to us who are speaking in New Testament terms..
"I believe I could come to the movies with you"

means YES, I CAN COME TO THE MOVIES....

See?

Nuff of that.

What is important to me, is that we make it CLEAR that good deeds, works, call it what you're comfortable with,
MUST be manifested in a believer, or there is a problem.

We cannot continue like we were BEFORE, and call ourselves a Christian.

This is all I'm saying.

 

[FranC]

Most of the counter-pointers here do not believe we posses any measure of personal saving faith...they claim that personal saving faith is the faith of Jesus himself and because of that they will never abandon faith and become apostate or otherwise...they then proof text 2 Timothy 2.13 to back up this claim.....this is the true doctrine of demons of eternal security...

2 Timothy 2:13 does NOT mean what some THINK it means.
I've explained it so many times, my mouth is dry.

I do wish they'd look it up some way.
Maybe in a good commentary -- any commentary since it only has one meaning.

(God is true to HIMSELF, not to US --- Reader's Digest version)

 

[FranC]

I cannot see Skippy's posts because he is taking a long train ride to iggy land...but I saw his quote...that believing is just mental assent...






Matthew 21:22


"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."


John 20:31


but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.



John 20:29




Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed

John 6:47 Verse Concepts

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.



Mark 9:23 Verse Concepts

And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."


Romans 10:17 Verse Concepts

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.


James 2:19 Verse Concepts

You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.


Acts 16:31 Verse Concepts

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


2 Corinthians 4:13 Verse Concepts

But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE," we also believe, therefore we also speak,


1 John 3:23 Verse Concepts

This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


Romans 10:11 Verse Concepts

For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."


John 14:1 Verse Concepts

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.


Hebrews 11:1 Verse Concepts

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.


Romans 10:9 Verse Concepts

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


John 6:29 Verse Concepts

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."


John 11:40 Verse Concepts

Jesus said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?"


Mark 5:36 Verse Concepts

But Jesus, overhearing what was being spoken, said to the synagogue official, "Do not be afraid any longer, only believe."


1 Peter 1:8 Verse Concepts

and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,


Romans 10:10 Verse Concepts

for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Matthew 18:19 Verse Concepts

"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.


Ephesians 6:16 Verse Concepts

in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.


Hebrews 11:6 Verse Concepts

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


2 Thessalonians 2:11 Verse Concepts


For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,


Mark 1:15 Verse Concepts

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


James 1:6 Verse Concepts


But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.



John 3:36 Verse Concepts

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


Mark 16:16 Verse Concepts

"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.


2 Corinthians 5:7 Verse Concepts

for we walk by faith, not by sight--


2 Corinthians 4:18 Verse Concepts

while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.


Romans 15:13 Verse Concepts

Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.


Luke 1:45 Verse Concepts

"And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord."


source for bible verses for all to see is:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Believing

Great post Meggido..
I admire you for this.

I'm sooo tired of posting scripture that is not read or understood...
(it still should be done however....)

 

[FranC]

I would say that believe/belief and faith with regard to salvation are intrinsically connected.

Belief is to be accept something/someone exists and is true even without proof.
Faith is then to have complete trust in that something/someone.

It is intersting though that one can believe and trust

John 12:42-50
Walk in the Light
42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

I would say that belief/faith is encompassed as belief is to accept the claims of Jesus, his death and resurrection then place place faith in him. As a result then actions will follow.

To me we are justified/saved by faith alone without good works
As a result actions will follow.

To me Paul & James are not conflicting each other, rather they complement each other.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

To me we need to be very very careful indeed to judge people based on the bar/level we set that determines works/obedience.
And whether they have true saving faith.

Gods kids grow at a different pace.
Immaturity should lead to maturity.
Some take longer to grow up than others and some may remain immature but still have faith in Jesus.

To me the problem is that it is so so easy to say "Just grow up God as commanded this, stop sinning and do good works" then leave it at that.

That is so so wrong.

We need to come alongside with love and Godly wisdom.

We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes of someone who says they have placed faith in Jesus yet don't seem to be waking in that faith.

Some will want to pay the price for believing and stand firm but for some reason fall and fall and fall.
We need to find out why.

If we love our brother as ourselves (as commanded) then we will do this.
If they refuse then church discipline time.

If we love as required then we are loving God as well.
Jesus restored Peter, indulged Thomas, saved a man called Saul who was out to persecute him.
David knew that God did not want a sacrifice but a contrite heart.

Just my limited thoughts.

I agree.
Did I condemn anyone?

I only condemn what some SAY.
It makes it sound like good deeds are NOT required.
They don't like the word "required" or "necessary".

Some here have flatly stated that good deeds or works do not keep us saved.
Here is where we part company...

Can a person be saved and NOT HAVE GOOD DEEDS?
NO. This is impossible.

Because if we Love our Lord, we wish to follow in His footsteps the best that we can.
Who has set a bar?
Not me. I'm not God. He knows our heart --- what we do and what we don't do.

Anything we do NOW is for God.
Maybe there's a misunderstanding as to what works are.
Why is it such a bad word?

Maybe that could have been discussed instead of proclaiming to all that works are NOT necessary.
How many times do I have to post:
John 14:15
John 15:14

THIS IS JESUS SPEAKING.
Not me.

 

[FranC]

1. Do the demons trust Christ, are they assured Christ is right, and they are wrong? do they trust God is right, and satan is wrong? Wil they put their lives in the hand of Christ?

However, they KNOW (believe) he is the christ.

2. John 3: 16, Whoever believes, This is more than a mental ascent, this is an assurance that what God says concerning the gospel is true. It is not just an agreement, it is putting your life in the hand of Christ.

It is an English language issue, Your not understanding that belief has a long range of possible definitions, From mental agreement, to full assurance, and this can be used to translate in all these areas.

Faith on the other hand, is more than mental ascent, it is a trust or assurance in the one your placing your faith in.

Faith does not fit in some areas in our language, You do not say whoever faiths in him, has eternal life, You use the best word, which would be belief. Context and proper interpretation of the word must however be used.

I hope you do not think a person who believes Jesus died on the cross is saved and given eternal life based on that fact, even though they do not trust the the gospel and all it says.

We were discussing:

James 2:19
Even demons believe in Christ and SHUDDER.
They shudder because they believe that Christ is God.
They know He is. But they sit back and do nothing.
(it's too late for them)

Belief, faith, and works go hand in hand.
They cannot be divided.

WE are not to sit back and do nothing as the demons do.
We, unlike them, are to believe and do.
It's not too late for us.

John 3:16

Whoever Believes...
The N.T. "believes"
We believe Jesus is God...

Let us do as He commanded and NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY SO.

 

[FranC]

Who said there was a lag time? Only you suggesting it.

By the way...we all have said that believe is to obey. The difference in our thinking is that obedience is to believe. Disobedience is unbelief. It's also said in scripture.

Stone,

YOU said there's a lag time!
I'm only asking how long it is.

You said that believe and faith are different.

John 3:16 says WHOEVER BELIEVES will not perish.
So if I believe, I also must have FAITH in what God said --- that I will not perish.

SO....

If believe and faith is different, as YOU state, then there must be a lag time between when I BELIEVE in JESUS and when I have FAITH in Him.

Or does it happen at the same time since it means the same thing?????

See. I don't want to sound mean hearted, but you do have to really listen to what people say and work through the idea.

If I BELIEVE in JESUS
I have FAITH in JESUS.


HE'S GOD.
I cannot believe in God and not have faith in Him...

 

[FranC]

Mat 13:58
　 He did not perform many miracles there because of their unbelief.

unbelief:

~
G570
ἀπιστία
apistia
ap-is-tee'-ah
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.


Total KJV occurrences: 12

Joh 6:28　 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"　
Joh 6:29　 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."　
Joh 6:30　 So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?　
Joh 6:31　 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'"　
Joh 6:32　 Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.　
Joh 6:33　 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."　
Joh 6:34　 They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always."　
Joh 6:35　 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.　
Joh 6:36　 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.　
Joh 6:37　 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.　
Joh 6:38　 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.　
Joh 6:39　 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.　
Joh 6:40　 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."　
Joh 6:41　 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."　

It's a new day Fran...and a new way. Not of law under the OT.







　

Uh oh.
John 6:29 and no explanation of what the word believe means in that sentence! This is a no no.

John 6:39 God wills that all...

Yes. God wills that all be saved --- but are all saved?
1 Timothy 2:4

NO. Because although God wills it, we must agree to it because of our free will.

6:39 --- God wills that none be lost, but some will be...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



Wills

verb (used with or without object), present singular 1st person will, 2nd will or (Archaic) wilt,
3rd will, present plural will; past singular 1st person would, 2nd would or (Archaic) wouldst,
3rd would, past plural would; past participle (Obsolete) wold or would; imperative, infinitive, and present participle lacking.
10.

to wish; desire; like: Go where you will.
Ask, if you will, who the owner is.

 

[FranC]

its interesting you say that

I walked with a guy last year for about 8 months.

He went to the alpha Course and as a result went on the next course which I lead.

Now he believed in God and he believed in Jesus.
He believed in Jesus as a good person and they he died and it stopped at that.
He believed he gave a moral code as such. And if we try our best then surely God would accept that.

We walked and talked and then it came to a crunch point.

He asked to me meet because he felt so disconnected from God.

We met and boy what a meeting.

I said his disconect was the way to God and the way is Jesus.
Jesus is the connection. You cannot come to the Father unless it's through Jesus.
He saves you, forgives your sin and gives you a purpose.

We went from Jesus was a good moral teacher to a guy who ended up on his knees with tears running down his face and snot pouring out his nose and I asked him do you want to connect to God, if so you need to place your faith in Jesus and believe he died and rose again for you.

He said yes I want to. So I said just let it all out in your prayer.

he prayed

"Jesus I need you so much and the funny thing is he let it all go. Boy did he swear about himself and all the hurt pain and shame came out.

He placed his faith in Jesus.

When he got off his knees I saw a totally different person, a smile on his face.
He was trembling and tingling.

"I am a child of God"

The old man was gone and the new child of God I saw.

Believe to faith took 8 months.

I had the pleasure of baptising him 3 months ago.

Bill,
He believed God exised and he believed Jesus was a real person and existed.

He didn't believe IN God or Jesus.

He BELIEVED IN GOD AND JESUS and HAD FAITH IN THEM, 8 months later.

 

[JIMBO43]

Because I believe EVERYONE who has faith (believes) in jesus as their lord and savior WILL follow his commands (although I do not believe anyone will be perfect. and some will obey a lot more than others)




WHo is afraid? No one is afraid. The only person that says anyone is afraid is you.

Gods people WILL WORK

Gods people WILL OBEY

Gods people WILL grow

Gods people WILL not live like they used to

Gods people WILL be changed, Because God made them new creatures.

are you afraid of the word will?? Why?

Again, Saying it is REQUIRED is teaching works..

I believe faith works,, why do you not agree? why do you think a person can have faith and not work?

Gods people will need to bare all theese fruits for them selves..

you on the other hand think if the child of God does not automaticaly do this after being saved they where never saved in the first place..

and you know thats the truth but you choose to ignor me on that et

 

[JIMBO43]

2 Thessalonians 2:13English Standard Version (ESV)

Stand Firm

13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits[a] to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

through your own belief in the truth.. which is Gods grace which is sufficient enough for you to do

 

[FranC]

You going to rebuke Francy...ask how old she is....and you know...the bible does teach guilt by associaition...good luck!

Dcon
I wasn't 21 in my avatar.
I was close to 40.
And you know the story...
so please stop bringing it up.
Thanks. (I mean the thanks).

 

[JIMBO43]

◄ Romans 8:24 ►


Future Glory
…23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all.Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.…

This ties in with 2 thesolonians 2:13 for we are gaining our salvation through sanctification of the holy spirit and are ability to believe and carry out the truth.. when we get saved we receive the first fruits and not the complete fruits coz those fruits we must bare for our selfs