Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

You said someone was not saved yesterday and continued saying you knew when someone was not saved all day, yesterday.......then today tell us you do not know a persons heart only God does....

ok dude, I have had enough of your crap.

He never had true faith, If he did, as John said, he never would have left. (I would also wonder if he really believes there is no god. or just out of anger, is angry at God and just saying that, or if he really means it. Which would make him an antichrist in Johns view)

I did not condemn anyone,

I said he is either as John said, a person who waas never of us,

or hew was angry at God, and just saying he does not believe, But does not mean it. (which means in my view, the person is still saved)

Now you can consider yourself on report for falsy accusing people of things they have not done..

once again, IGNORE ME,,

 

[Meggido]

OMG, Do you hate me that much dude?

You are making a complete and utter fool of yourself, all because you have a vendetta against me. How stupid is that? do you not see what you are doing?

Saying fruit is not PROOF of salvation does not mean there should be no fruit at all.

I have said 1000 times a person who is saved, out of the result of that salvation will prpduce fruit.

You want to keep up this nonsense, I will report you, and suggest everyone else does too.. Your war is not going to gain you any brownie points, and if you think it is going to hurt me, You do not know me at all (well I think that has actually already been proven with most of your posts today)

I do not hate you one bit...

 

[stonesoffire]

nobody is coming to the aide of a double minded man that is unstable in all his ways as you are...your denial is pathological and you need help....

You think I have not encountered people like you before...that think you are all it, that can mow down others and then hide behind the word and act like they've e done nothing wrong...

The truth about what I have posted about you today is on display for all to see...your a little boy crying wolf in this post....because until now, nobody on this site, would get in your face about your duplicity and own slander and, malice and rage...

The sooner you start owning yourself the sooner you will be free....

So you want to shut the thread down now? Wow...it's all I can say.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is it a sin to state what one believes when it's not quite in agreement with our own thought EG?

It is a sin to say "insert name" believes something he does not believe
It is a sin to say "insert any name" teaches things which a person does not teach

do people understand what bearing false witness is?

It means you have stated a lie about another person

We can only say what we believe.

if that was all we was doing we would not be having this argument or discussion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nobody is coming to the aide of a double minded man that is unstable in all his ways as you are...your denial is pathological and you need help....

You think I have not encountered people like you before...that think you are all it, that can mow down others and then hide behind the word and act like they've e done nothing wrong...

The truth about what I have posted about you today is on display for all to see...your a little boy crying wolf in this post....because until now, nobody on this site, would get in your face about your duplicity and own slander and, malice and rage...

The sooner you start owning yourself the sooner you will be free....

lol.. You think you know it all don't you?

I have already reported you once because of your slander. You want to keep it up I will keep reporting you.

Again, as I have said You can not argue AGAINST me when you have utterly no clue what I believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not hate you one bit...

actions speak louder than words my friend.

You do not slander and lie and attack people you like..

 

[willybob]

its a blessing that this thread has more views than all the other current threads put together, in that by the grace of God exposes the centuries old not of works dogma. (its been one giant system of error)...those seeking truth can look on and see the nakedness of professed Christianity, as opposed to the Christian faith once delivered to the saints, and be good Bereans searching the scriptures for themselves........

1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

How is this possible if we are all sinning everyday in thought word and deed? Yes Job had sins of ignorance, but he did not rebel or curse God, nor did he engage himself in the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom. Therefore he feared God and hated evil, thus being righteous in the eyes of the Lord, and said to be perfect by God. He was mature, morally upright, and had a perfect heart towards God........be blessed

 

[dcontroversal]

The mere fact anyone claims salvation can be lost.

1. States God is not powerful enough to do what he promised (finish the work he started until the day of Christ)
2. States God is a liar (he did not perfect forever those who are being sanctified, if he did, then they are saved forever)
3. States Gods promises are not reliable (Jesus said whoever trusted in him will never hunger, never thirst, Never die, Live forever, and given his ASSURANCE he will raise them from the dead)
4. States God makes mistakes (he gave eternal life to someone he knew he would have to take back. because of sin, lack of faith or whatever reason one gives for why the eternal life will be surrendered)
States Gods pledge is meaningless (he said he gave the seal until the day of redemption. And never said he would take it back for any reason)
5. States we are more powerful than God (we can pluck ourselves out of his hands)
6. States eternal life is not eternal, but conditional.

About the only form which I would try not to argue about much is the form which says a person who Denys Christ lost salvation. Because no one believes and antichrist is saved, (however, I would not judge them, because I do not know their Heart, only God does (the one who says they deny Christ, peter denied Christ, and Christ never asked him to repent)

Al the rest, They slander us and say we love sin, They say we hate works, We condemn anyone who teaches works will be done by Gods children.. Yet get angry when we question what their faith is truly in.. and try to tell them we think they offend God and his character by their very belief.

So it is ok for them to judge, but how dare us say what we think..

Sadly, it has been going on since the beginning of the church, and it will go on until Christ returns.

It seems there are three basic groups..

a. SAVED completely and eternally by faith alone and said faith will bear at least 1 piece of fruit of fruit or work (which has already been done by the initial faith<--The work of the FATHER is to believe on JESUS)

b. Saved by faith temporarily and is proven by fruit or works, but said salvation can be lost if one walks away from faith or possibly commits some of the "big" sins.....

c. Saved by a blend of faith and works which can be lost if no one works or sins after salvation

d. On rare occasion those who say saved by works which can be lost if no work is done

B thru D are self centered and take the glory away from JESUS.....if ONE MUST DO ANYTHING other than BELIEVE for salvation then it is merited and owed by GOD.......IF one UST keep himself saved it is not of GOD..IMV

 

[dcontroversal]

If people are lazy, I trust God will do as he promised and chasten them, and get them back on the right track, if nothign else. make their lives so miserable that they are left with really no choice (I have experienced this when I was a prodigal)

Saying if that person does not get right, he will go to hell, after they have been saved, and using this as motivation to try to get them back in fellowship. may at most scare them to come back for awhile. but will never cause any long lasting restoration, Only fear.

Fear does not get us to do Gods will, The law and Israels response proved that,, Security of being in Christ, and his guidance does..

Who here has done anything God asked them to and been disappointed, who here has tried to do the same under ones own power. and seen great victory?

God is faithful, When we walk in him, there is no question of his love and his ways are so much better.

The more we walk, the more we realise this fact..

AMEN.....true love casts out ALL fear......!

 

[dcontroversal]

One thing I notice is this misnomer that no one was saved until the cross.........David in the O.T. speaks of his salvation in the present tense some 1000 years before JESUS would be nailed to the cross.....Abraham was saved, Noah was saved, David was Saved, Abel was saved...every MAN, WOMAN and Child who had faith in the coming MESSIAH were saved..........if this were not the case DAVID would not have been INSPIRED BY GOD to write of it IN THE PRESTENT TENSE in the PSALMS!!

O.T. saints looked forward to the cross-------->MESSIAH/JESUS<---------N.T. saints looked BACK to the cross

 

[dcontroversal]

God's word claims after conversion, you are no longer a sinner saved by grace, but a son, an heir, a saint that will still sin and make mistakes.....sinner is he old man.... saint is the new man.....

Paul never once addresses his letters this way....
TO all the sinners saved by grace, IT is my hearts desire to add and grace and peace of Jesus unto you, but I cannot, for you should never be forgetting the wretch you were, are and will always be...

I admonish you by the guilt of Christ's death places on you to keep unburying the dead man to constantly remind yourself that your just a poor sinner saved by grace....and a child of disobedience...deserving of nothing, unable to do nothing, because the passive work of our Lord is a life long struggle, because the 2 natures war all the time. I also bring to your remembrance that imputed righteousness is not position.... it is only found when we are absent of the body and with the Lord or when a secret meeting in the air takes place among us and all our secret brethren...So you foolish people remember you are not who God says you in the new man, you are to remember what Satan says you are in the old man....a wretch, and a poe ole sinner saved by grace...



Paul addressed his letters this way...TO THE SAINTS!

And to those at Rome.....CALLED TO BE SAINTS..........

 

[stonesoffire]

One thing I notice is this misnomer that no one was saved until the cross.........David in the O.T. speaks of his salvation in the present tense some 1000 years before JESUS would be nailed to the cross.....Abraham was saved, Noah was saved, David was Saved, Abel was saved...every MAN, WOMAN and Child who had faith in the coming MESSIAH were saved..........if this were not the case DAVID would not have been INSPIRED BY GOD to write of it IN THE PRESTENT TENSE in the PSALMS!!

O.T. saints looked forward to the cross-------->MESSIAH/JESUS<---------N.T. saints looked BACK to the cross

Interesting point Dcon. I may not of agreed before this morning as I was looking at Chronicles. But, they did know of Messiah to come. Is something I was not aware of. Its right there in the psalm of David.

 

[stonesoffire]

And to those at Rome.....CALLED TO BE SAINTS..........

Now, wait a minute Dcon. Maybe you are misunderstanding Meggido here.

We are the righteousness of God, through Christ Jesus. A new creation man. Sons of God.

We are given the right to be called Sons of God, and we know not what we are at first. It's the mystery or the revelation of Christ in us, the hope of glory.

Positionally, we are not sinners, but saints of God. Saints are just Sons, who are babes in the beginning, but grow in the grace and knowledge of the Son of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope. it is called a hope. If we have no hope of eternal life. Hope of salvation, Hope of an inheritance which is set aside for us, Hope of the seal given to us, Hope of the fact God says we passed from life to death and are no longer condemned.

We have no faith.

what you call a check Box. God calls an inheritance.

AMEN.....HOPE...a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED.......if salvation can be lost or forfeit it is not guaranteed....nor ETERNAL, but rather temporary......

He that believes on the Son is having ALMOST ETERNAL LIFE....

or

HE that believes on the SON is having TEMPORARY, CONDITIONAL LIFE

etc.....

 

[dcontroversal]

The Fear of the Lord is lost upon those who must constantly lay the foundations of elementary doctrines....eternal security removes the Fear of the Lord and replaces it with: Since God is Good.... I am also good....and I will be ok....

The fear of the Lord is the beginning...not the end.....

True love casts out ALL fear......God loves his children unconditionally, places them into a positioning of grace based upon belief/faith and does not cast us away, but rather we are kept by his power and he will finish his work....saved to the uttermost!

 

[dcontroversal]

another contradiction ...., several weeks ago and all through this thread, you stated fruit was not any proof of salvation and it does not matter if they bear fruit or not, because a dead apple tree is still an apple tree whether they bear fruit or not...you G7 and DCOn alll say this.....you even called people who advocated that fruit bearing must be immediate in a baby christian as fruit-inspectors...and condemning people.....

but today...

you change your story again and tell us fruit bearing must be immediate....
You are making us sea sick with your double minded ways....

When you get it truly figured out, let us know....

A two souled man is unstable in all his ways.....man....what is your issue....you say the above vitriol and yet liked the following post....so which is it? If you are going to name me and accuse me....please have the facts correct.....

Originally Posted by Meggido So now you are going to tell us Abraham was saved under the new covenant?
Post 15015 bro and

answer the following please

a. How many apples identify an apple tree?
b. Is an apple tree an apple tree from the moment it sprouts?
c. Is an apple tree still an apple tree for the 3 or so years it makes to bear fruit?
d. Is an apple tree still an apple tree is it has a good year and bears fruit and then has a bad year of drought and does not bear?
e. Is an apple tree still an apple tree if a bad late frost kills all the blooms and it does not bear that year?
f. is an apple tree still an apple tree if all of it's fruit is loaded with worms one year?
G. As a matter of fact....is an apple tree still an apple tree no matter what happens after it sprouts from seed it's whole life?
Meggido likes this. <-----------THIS

 

[dcontroversal]

Who is "you all"? I have not said that anybody gives another license to sin. My post was against the idea that those here who believe in and rely on and live by the grace and mercy of Christ do not view the weakness of the flesh as a license to sin.

Who gives them self license to sin? The person who sins. Who sins? Everyone. Who asks for forgiveness of their sins? Sinners who repent of their sins. All sins but one are already forgiven for the one who repents. I do see both sides of the issue, and take exception to those who preach that Jesus can lose those that are given to Him, when He said He would not let any slip/be snatched from His hands.

AMEN....no one has said that nor implied it.....one of a handful of accusations made against those who believe in eternal security....

MAGENTA....the "debil made us do it Bobby Bouche"......

 

[dcontroversal]

Now, wait a minute Dcon. Maybe you are misunderstanding Meggido here.

We are the righteousness of God, through Christ Jesus. A new creation man. Sons of God.

We are given the right to be called Sons of God, and we know not what we are at first. It's the mystery or the revelation of Christ in us, the hope of glory.

Positionally, we are not sinners, but saints of God. Saints are just Sons, who are babes in the beginning, but grow in the grace and knowledge of the Son of God.

He made a definite statement of fact concerning Paul's letters and his use of the word SAINTS to prove a point....I simply pointed out that when Paul addressed those at Rome he used different verbiage....that being....CALLED to BE SAINTS......

 

[Meggido]

One thing I notice is this misnomer that no one was saved until the cross.........David in the O.T. speaks of his salvation in the present tense some 1000 years before JESUS would be nailed to the cross.....Abraham was saved, Noah was saved, David was Saved, Abel was saved...every MAN, WOMAN and Child who had faith in the coming MESSIAH were saved..........if this were not the case DAVID would not have been INSPIRED BY GOD to write of it IN THE PRESTENT TENSE in the PSALMS!!

O.T. saints looked forward to the cross-------->MESSIAH/JESUS<---------N.T. saints looked BACK to the cross

I would agree that OT saints looked forward to the cross...it was their hope...


From Moses forward until Jesus was on the cross there was no forgiveness of sin, sins were only covered[Atoned for] by the blood of bulls and goats. Forgiveness of sin did not come until Jesus Christ ratified the new covenant with his shed blood and the veil was torn.... How can you be saved by faith without the forgiveness of sin?

From Adam to Moses sin was not charged because there was no law...that does not exempt David...so how are suggesting that OT saints from Moses to Jesus were saved without the forgiveness of SIN, by the shed blood of Jesus Christ?

 

[dcontroversal]

I would agree that OT saints looked forward to the cross...it was their hope...


From Moses forward until Jesus was on the cross there was no forgiveness of sin, sins were only covered[Atoned for] by the blood of bulls and goats. Forgiveness of sin did not come until Jesus Christ ratified the new covenant with his shed blood and the veil was torn.... How can you be saved by faith without the forgiveness of sin?

From Adam to Moses sin was not charged because there was no law...that does not exempt David...so how are suggesting that OT saints from Moses to Jesus were saved without the forgiveness of SIN, by the shed blood of Jesus Christ?

Then David confessed to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." Nathan replied, "Yes, but the LORD has forgiven you, and you won't die for this sin.

Job--->My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.