Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry to say that it goes beyond defensiveness.
Persons here who understand about how Jesus wants us to do good works have actually been
ACCUSED of not being spiritual Christians.

As if to be a "spiritual Christian" one has to NOT do good works, or deeds.
I find this rather horrifying.

no you have it wrong, people are accused of preaching legalism, because they teach works are required to be saved, or maintain salvation,

if your going to judge others at least be honest about what has been sad.

 

[Ariel82]

I find it ironic and hypocritically self defeating that those who believe this thread should be shut down keep posting.

You have a choice how you spend your time.

I don't post for those who might be reading on the sidelines, because if they don't want to join the conversation that's on them.

I lost only for those who are speaking or have spoken on the thread.

I follow the last couple pages and ask this.....

How do you tell who is speaking words that are demonically influenced?

How do you know you are not counted among the number who is repeating demonic lies that you have judged others of having given voice to?

The Bible tells us how to tell but I wonder how many people actually listen to the wisdom found in James 3?

Also asking what your spiritual state is..whether you are saved is not a personal attack.

I always take it as an invitation to give my testimony and preach the gospel in season and out of season.

I find it odd at how many things people take as personal attacks and get mad and defensive about.

Hate to tell some folks....you aren't the center of the world....most times you aren't being talked about and the conversation isn't about YOU.

IT SHOULD BE ABOUT GOD AND HOW SALVATION IS BY FAITH NOT BY WORKS.

 

[royalscot]

if yesterday post calls you a lair, how come today, you sing a different song.

if you cannot live and learn, then let that one mistake , condemn you. by the testament you, think protects you.

 

[PHart]

If works are required "in" salvation, they are required "for" salvation. There is no difference,

this should set f warning bells in anyone.

Then what does John mean when he said the born again does not continue to sin?
(We all know and agree that does not mean sinless perfection. Don't even waste the time going there.)

 

[Cee]

This gave me a new understanding of James 3.

The difference between demonic wisdom and God given wisdom. And also that wisdom is repeated among men.

This links up to several Scriptures regarding Spiritual warfare and the Mind filter given in Philippians.

I didn't notice the connection until now.

Thank you for sharing this.

I find it ironic and hypocritically self defeating that those who believe this thread should be shut down keep posting.

You have a choice how you spend your time.

I don't post for those who might be reading on the sidelines, because if they don't want to join the conversation that's on them.

I lost only for those who are speaking or have spoken on the thread.

I follow the last couple pages and ask this.....

How do you tell who is speaking words that are demonically influenced?

How do you know you are not counted among the number who is repeating demonic lies that you have judged others of having given voice to?

The Bible tells us how to tell but I wonder how many people actually listen to the wisdom found in James 3?

 

[gb9]

In regards to good works:

John 13:25 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

This Scripture is the most important one for us if we wish to reveal we are His disciples.

So let's discuss it:

How do we know experientially (from the heart) what love is? By His love for us.

And He expects us to love one another to the degree that we understand His love for ourselves.

Let's ask ourselves are we loving one another to the degree that we believe He loves us? If not, let's ask Holy Spirit to first prune ourselves before we try to remove specks in each other's eyeballs.

If we are going to preach the need for good works, let's reveal it ourselves. Or else we are simply a hypocrite. I do not desire to be one. He tells us that it is by our fruit that we shall see who truly believes what one is preaching.

this is really good, but many seem to have no desire to examine themselves. they are too busy lecturing others on how one MUST DO GOOD WORKS TO REMAIN saved. so, maybe if they would find a little humility , we could have more fruitful conversation.

and, by the way, no one is speaking against doing good works. only against including them into the salvation that we RECEIVE from the LORD.

 

[royalscot]

I find it ironic and hypocritically self defeating that those who believe this thread should be shut down keep posting.

You have a choice how you spend your time.

I don't post for those who might be reading on the sidelines, because if they don't want to join the conversation that's on them.

I lost only for those who are speaking or have spoken on the thread.

I follow the last couple pages and ask this.....

How do you tell who is speaking words that are demonically influenced?

How do you know you are not counted among the number who is repeating demonic lies that you have judged others of having given voice to?

The Bible tells us how to tell but I wonder how many people actually listen to the wisdom found in James 3?

you are correct, to read simple words , must be a challenge to fools that keep posting,

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.Romans 2: God's Righteous Judgment


mind and repent, before you read ,them word, could cause confusion, to religious studies.

 

[Sully]

Then what does John mean when he said the born again does not continue to sin?
(We all know and agree that does not mean sinless perfection. Don't even waste the time going there.)

What did you DO to get born the first time? exactly.

 

[PHart]

How do you tell who is speaking words that are demonically influenced?

Hardened dogmatism vs. honest discussion.
The clasping of ones hands over the ears in anger vs. the one who wants to listen and engage.
That's how.
Bullying is a sure sign of demonic activity.

I'm not going into detail but I'm very familiar and educated about how this works in people. Very much so.

 

[royalscot]

Hardened dogmatism vs. honest discussion.
The clasping of ones hands over the ears in anger vs. the one who wants to listen and engage.
That's how.
Bullying is a sure sign of demonic activity.

I'm not going into detail but I'm very familiar and educated about how this works in people. Very much so.

them that can not prove his own post,is still a fool .

 

[PHart]

What did you DO to get born the first time? exactly.

I trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sin.
Then I started growing up into righteous works AS A RESULT.
If I had not started that growth, I would be showing myself to not really have received the forgiveness of God. But so many are sure their fruitless, dead faith is indeed the faith that somehow saved them and prepared them for the day of judgment. And they get very defensive and angry and dogmatic if you dare suggest otherwise.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you believe this then why are you and others perpetuating this thread????? Nobody that I know of on the 'fruit in salvation' side of this argument in any way shape or form said works earn, and keep earning your salvation. So can we shut this horrible thread down........please? What's your beef?

When you or others state that they are a NECESSITY of salvation and ONE can lose salvation for non-compliance...that is the beef.....

 

[Ariel82]

Sometimes people give demons too much credit. What folks see is more the spritual strongholds in the flesh built by demons that haven't been torn down yet.

If you see actual demonic presence, why don't you pray and have God remove it from your presence?

Then honest and real dialog can occur.

 

[Ariel82]

I trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sin.
Then I started growing up into righteous works AS A RESULT.
If I had not started that growth, I would be showing myself to not really have received the forgiveness of God. But so many are sure their fruitless, dead faith is indeed the faith that somehow saved them and prepared them for the day of judgment. And they get very defensive and angry and dogmatic if you dare suggest otherwise.

Name one person who States that "their fruitless, dead faith is indeed the faith that somehow saved them", please?


I must have missed reading that person's post.

Everyone I have taken the time to talk to in this thread believe that a dead faith saves no one.

What the issue is saying works is reauired/necessary to earn or maintain salvation.

Only a living and active faith is needed, which God will use to produce fruit.., which is different than outward works of men.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then what does John mean when he said the born again does not continue to sin?
(We all know and agree that does not mean sinless perfection. Don't even waste the time going there.)

it means a man born of God could never lose salvation, because he does not continue in sin, because he has been born of God,

Unbelief is a sin, so if a man born of God can not continue in sin, he could never continue in unbelief and lose salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

this is really good, but many seem to have no desire to examine themselves. they are too busy lecturing others on how one MUST DO GOOD WORKS TO REMAIN saved. so, maybe if they would find a little humility , we could have more fruitful conversation.

and, by the way, no one is speaking against doing good works. only against including them into the salvation that we RECEIVE from the LORD.

AMEN bro...I agree........like the old saying goes....SMILE...JESUS saves and he saves eternally!

 

[Cee]

I like this logic.

Thank you.

it means a man born of God could never lose salvation, because he does not continue in sin, because he has been born of God,

Unbelief is a sin, so if a man born of God can not continue in sin, he could never continue in unbelief and lose salvation.

 

[royalscot]

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.Romans 2: God's Righteous Judgment

repent because of that verse numb nut. and bind the world, wile your at it , your to thick understand, why this slice of rock , you want turned to bread. came in the form of writen words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sin.
Then I started growing up into righteous works AS A RESULT.
If I had not started that growth, I would be showing myself to not really have received the forgiveness of God. But so many are sure their fruitless, dead faith is indeed the faith that somehow saved them and prepared them for the day of judgment. And they get very defensive and angry and dogmatic if you dare suggest otherwise.

Where was your faith? If you had true faith you would not have to worry about doing good works, they would be an automatic byproduct. It would be your new natural state as a new creature,

 

[royalscot]

I like this logic.

Thank you.

ask him what law he repent of, before he repented. and can he prove from scripture that law was given to him.