Not By Works

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Apr 30, 2016
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I think Jesus was encouraged and refreshed by Mary Magdalene on His journey to the cross, if not inspired by, and mentioned that what she did would be spoken of with the message of Salvation: Because she was forgiven much she loved much. We are poor in Spirit when we are self sufficient, some just don't know, Revelation 3:15
I happen to agree to all you've said. You even touched on what Poor In Spirit means. Mathew 5:3

However, By being inspired .... Of course I mean that Jesus did not need to be inspired to SPEAK THE WORD OF GOD.

HE IS GOD and does not need inspiration to SPEAK the WORD, like, for instance, Paul would need.

This was the point of saying that Jesus does not need to be inspired.

He needed, BTW, a whole lot more inspiration the Mary M. to get to that cross...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
upon Jesus the Living Son of God and His words because thats what He said. very clearly there the foundation os to Hear and do the things He teaches again

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

to say Jesus is the foundation is 100 percent correct, to then assume that what He said has nothing to do with it is 100 percent incorrect. what you quoted there begins with " Not everyone who says to me Lord lord, will enter into the Kingdom but He who does the will of my Father in Heaven.

casting out demons or prophesying in His name those types of things wont save us, His teachings are about truly Loving others the deeds of Love. that is seen in matthew 25: 31-46 among many many other places. it wasnt the Ones calling Jesus Lord who are saved many of them are thrown into eternal fire. the difference is what those calling Him Lord, did Knowing He is Lord. they did the deeds of Love Like the good samaritan.

saved by faith is a true statement, but what Kind of faith saves? if not the faith that works accompany. is the discussion here why we do the works? or what our motivation is? or can we have faith without doing the works? its a catch 22 one says i have faith but if they have no works is that faith according to the Bible? one can work and Not believe in Jesus and neither will that save. if we believe, we will do they are not seperable. faith comes first, but works follow or it isnt faith is the thing. obedience shouldnt be considered a work in the first place if one is born again.


my faith is squarely in Jesus, thats why im always telling folks go Learn what Jesus the Lord said of this or that. and when they will do that, they will see that Jesus is all about obeying his Gospel ministry. and they will also see what becomes of those who say "Lord lord" yet do not Live as if they Have a Lord. faith in Jesus results in amazing changes in a person and good works are no longer something that offends, its something were zealous to do titus 2:11-15. so anyone actually grasping the grace of God will be zealous for those good works thats the process of salvation and why the word doesnt say Grace grace alone but there are all those what to do, and what this and that actually means stuff in the word. all of it goes together so we cant misunderstand


You seem somewhat befuddled in stating your views.

1. Do you consider obedience a work?

It appears you say it isn't but then keep talking that it is.

2.Perhaps you will define what you believe is a good work?

3. Do you make a distinction between good works and fruit? Or do you count them the same?

4. Is fruit God's work in you or obtained by personal effort?

5. I believe a saving faith will have fruit to accompany it in a believers life, but believe that is different than having good works. Have you read enough of my posts to understand what I mean by that statement?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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You asked for verses that Dcon is speaking about. Just cuz you want to change topics doesn't discount the point being made.

Doing the will of God is MORE than doing outward works, but you seem to miss that point.

People can do outward good works and miracles and still be called by JESUS workers of iniquity.

THOSE WHO SEEK TO GAIN SALVATION BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH IN JESUS, will be told they are workers of iniquity. They trust in their own works and not in Jesus finished work. They don't understand true grace given to sinners, but believe they can "earn" or "buy" their way into heaven.

Not at all really those who refuse to act in true Love, the commands of Jesus Christ will be called workers of iniquity try this

matthew 25:31-46 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

( seems Jesus is directly taking of His return and Judgement day)


34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

(seems the righteous did something and thats the reason)

41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


again the same principle emerges the difference is not that both sets are calling him Lord, One set did the deeds, One set did Not do the deeds

righteous is as righteous does. How does this not have anything to do with the persons actions boith called Him Lord therefore both believed He was Lord. But whats the distinction Here ? can you argue that thier actions is what determined thier inheritance in the Kingdom, or thier Being cast into the eternal Fire? or is it based on what they said?


the saying actions are worth more than a thousand words is true
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Yet you feign ignorance and mock when it is pointed out to you that the "Rock" is not Peter.
You really do have Catholicism on the brain.
You MUST get this hatred out of your system.
He who hates his brother has already killed Him.
Jesus said it, not me.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You're still at square one Ariel.

We're not talking about unsaved people here.
We're talking about SAVED PERSONS.

Now... Take it from there...
No thanks. Set up your hoops for someone else to jump through.

You are so old and knowledgeable, I am sure you can tell us poor,young ignorant folks all about the gospel according to Fran.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Gospel = Good News.

To understand what the gospel is, let's back to the first time it was preached.

1. Jesus: Repent for the KINGDOM of God is at hand.
2. Disciples: Go and share what you've seen here. Heal the sick & set people free.
3. Paul: Declare Jesus is Lord and believe He was raised from the dead.

If you look at these 3 things, you'll see the active component in each is God's Kingdom & His power.

The Gospel focuses on Him. And He transforms us first and then the world through us. The Spirit of God is revealing what Jesus paid for on the cross.

We are witnesses to Christ and our testimony is the Spirit of Christ.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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For some it's what and not who....and that is the whole issue.

It's all about what folks should and shouldn't do...,not who they are in Christ.

Its about proving to others instead of spending time with God.
No. It's WHO.

You're getting mixed up with non-saved people again. Think about this.

And WHAT the WHO said is to be DONE.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Not at all really those who refuse to act in true Love, the commands of Jesus Christ will be called workers of iniquity try this

matthew 25:31-46 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

( seems Jesus is directly taking of His return and Judgement day)


34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

(seems the righteous did something and thats the reason)

41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


again the same principle emerges the difference is not that both sets are calling him Lord, One set did the deeds, One set did Not do the deeds

righteous is as righteous does. How does this not have anything to do with the persons actions boith called Him Lord therefore both believed He was Lord. But whats the distinction Here ? can you argue that thier actions is what determined thier inheritance in the Kingdom, or thier Being cast into the eternal Fire? or is it based on what they said?


the saying actions are worth more than a thousand words is true
Different scriptures...doesn't change the point that some do good works, even miracles and cast out demons IN JESUS NAME but are cast out and called workers of iniquity.

Do YOU KNOW WHY?

Again God's children will display love and do good works because that is WHO THEY ARE. It does NOT KEEP THEM SAVED. It is done BECAUSE WE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN AND HE HAS SAVED US.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Now you are being dishonest.

I have clearly stated what the Gospel is and never said "doing nothing" is part of it.

.just a straw man you like to torch.

Physical age means nothing if you haven't been born again by the Holy spirit.

What does the Holy spirit tell you?

Are you saved by works or by faith and NOT BY WORKS?
So you're once again questioning whether or not I'm born again?
Do I ever ask you this?

You want I should tell you everything the Holy Spirit has told me all these years???!!!

I'm saved by faith.
I'm kept saved by what Jesus told me needs to be DONE. So I guess that's WORKS. That terrible word...
 
S

Sully

Guest
BTW
You must not really have empathy.
It's not a quality you can turn on and off.
You either have it or you don't.

You must mean compassion.
A person has more control over compassion.
NO CONTROL over empathy.
Dude, i know what empathy is trust me. I'm a walking antennae...No kidding FranK
 
Nov 12, 2015
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You aren't any different than anyone of us. We all fall short of His Glory. We can look into our nature till the cows come home and be humble but I don't think this is the correct interpretation of humility.

It's when we take the Word for truth over our own thoughts. Renewing our mind with His Word. So in being raised with Him in His resurrection, what kind of person does God now say you are. That's my point.
You lost me here. I wasn't talking about humility. I was talking about seeing myself truly as He shows me my hypocrisies and inconsistencies.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Jesus went against the Pharisees for their extra curricular activites,which were things they did that was not what God said to do,so there was no bearing there to cause them to be find favor with God.

Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

They had the people jumping through hoops of tradition that God did not ordain.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

They would make the word of God of none effect by their extra curricular activity that does not come from God,thinking they have favor with God.

Which some people do that today in denominations,do things that God did not tell them to do,and then act as if it has spiritual significance with them.

The Roman Catholic Church is good for this,as they have a boat load of extra curricular activity going on thinking it has a spiritual benefit,and they find favor with God.The best example on the market,except the new age movement's Bible interpretation may give them a run for their money,but they do not say Jesus is Lord.

The Roman Empire did not get rid of their religious pagan ways,and held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures,and the new age movement will unify the religions,with an interpretation of the Bible,Islam,and Judaism,to fit that religious system.

And since the Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,and they will devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the nations will come together,and the dominion will be the Roman Empire,you know who will be the spiritual leader,and spiritual headquarters of it,and the Vatican,and the Pope,will change more and more,but many Catholics will not follow when it gets to that point.

Which I can see if the OSAS people say those works do not save,for they do not come from God,for that is correct they do not save,and have no benefit whatsoever.

The problem is that they go as far as saying works of the Spirit does not keep us right with God,when James said if you do not have works of the Spirit,your faith is dead,and Paul said they erred from the faith,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Jesus said works do matter in their salvation,and they have fallen,and need to repent,and if they do not repent He will go against them.

The OSAS want to believe what they believe so much,they will go against what God said.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The OSAS people say,we are sealed unto the day of redemption,but the Bible says this is the seal,this is what seals them,this is what seals the deal,that they depart from iniquity,it is a must do,for those that did not depart from iniquity could not dwell in heaven.

If they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,do they depart from iniquity,which why would they if they can get away with it,and many are hypocritical and live in sin thinking they are alright.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Not all have the knowledge of God,and do not depart from iniquity.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

To hold unto sin is to depart from the living God.

So I can understand when they say that we are not saved by works,if they want to point out the works that God did not institute,and did not say to do.

But when they say that works of the Spirit do not cause us to be right with God,it is only faith,when these works are instituted by God,and to obey is better than sacrifice,and every thought is to be to the obedience of Christ,and walk in the Spirit which you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,and have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and if you do not do the works of the Spirit then you are disobedient to God,and His character,for He said,be ye holy,for I am holy,and be ye perfect,as your Father in heaven is perfect,and thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,and the angels do not sin in heaven,and the ones that did are no longer there,then there is a problem.

There is a problem with these OSAS people,which they think they are right with God,but spiritually they are lying in a spiritual emergency room,needing spiritual care,and the doctor cannot fix them,because they will not let go of the flesh.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Let's go over it again,the Lord knows those that are His,having this seal,this is the seal that seals them,this is the seal that seals the deal,this is the mother of all seals,that they must depart from iniquity,it is not an option,but they have to do it,no excuses.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people did not want to depart from iniquity,and thought they were alright despite holding unto sin.

If they say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,were they sealed unto the day of redemption,and do they want an excuse to enjoy some things of the flesh,and believe they are still right with God.

God said He wants all to be saved,and anybody can have salvation,but they say nay,but God chooses who will be saved,and not saved.

God said this is the seal,they have to depart from iniquity,but they say nay,but sin does not affect their relationship with God,and we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

They say faith alone,but the Bible says a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.

They say they are saved by grace,which we are,but we are saved by grace through faith,and if they believe the prosperity Gospel,and will not depart from sin,then their faith is dead,for they will not do works of the Spirit.

The Bible says if a person believes the prosperity Gospel,to withdraw yourself from them,but they say we believe the prosperity Gospel,and God blesses us that way.

The Bible says if any person loves the world,or the things in the world,they are not of the Father,but they say we will enjoy the things of the world,and not let it go,and still be right with God.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
So you're once again questioning whether or not I'm born again?
Do I ever ask you this?

You want I should tell you everything the Holy Spirit has told me all these years???!!!

I'm saved by faith.
I'm kept saved by what Jesus told me needs to be DONE. So I guess that's WORKS. That terrible word...
Obeying Jesus is NOT WORKS.
Fruit is not by our efforts but God's work in us.
.Our works are outward expression of God's love to the world.

They don't keep us save. Jesus keeps us save.

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Fyi...I asked what the Holy spirit tells you...how is that questioning if you are born again? People who aren't born again,don't have the Holy spirit and even those who do don't always listen to Him.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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No thanks. Set up your hoops for someone else to jump through.

You are so old and knowledgeable, I am sure you can tell us poor,young ignorant folks all about the gospel according to Fran.
Yes. 34. You have much to learn still.
It comes with maturity in Christ.
As YOU always say.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Gospel = Good News.

To understand what the gospel is, let's back to the first time it was preached.

1. Jesus: Repent for the KINGDOM of God is at hand.
2. Disciples: Go and share what you've seen here. Heal the sick & set people free.
3. Paul: Declare Jesus is Lord and believe He was raised from the dead.

If you look at these 3 things, you'll see the active component in each is God's Kingdom & His power.

The Gospel focuses on Him. And He transforms us first and then the world through us. The Spirit of God is revealing what Jesus paid for on the cross.

We are witnesses to Christ and our testimony is the Spirit of Christ.
Yes. The Spirit of Christ.
Know what?
We should have a thread on the Kingdom of God.
Maybe the problem is that this is not understood?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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You seem somewhat befuddled in stating your views.

1. Do you consider obedience a work?

It appears you say it isn't but then keep talking that it is.

2.Perhaps you will define what you believe is a good work?

3. Do you make a distinction between good works and fruit? Or do you count them the same?

4. Is fruit God's work in you or obtained by personal effort?

5. I believe a saving faith will have fruit to accompany it in a believers life, but believe that is different than having good works. Have you read enough of my posts to understand what I mean by that statement?
lol of course i seem befuttled to you because we disagree :)

I look at doing good a a blessing and an honor to have been made able to do that. you seem to be saying that actions arent required. I embrace obedience to Jesus Christ and His Word of truth I see no reason to make it a work. what i was saying there is this

james 2:14-22 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?

can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


in other words we can say faith all day Long, true Faith will make us to do the Works taught By God. i dont consider anything " works" If God teaches us to do it in the Gospel, but the subject Here and the biblical language used is " works" i think better the term deeds, what we actually do because we actually have Living faith is How I would put it, what we do when We Have faith matters immensly. no actions means faith is reprobate and useless and cant save, true Faith will always spur action. repentance is an action we do because of Faith, a good deed is done because of Faith. we dont pit faith against the deeds taught in scriopture to actually do or pit faith against obedience.

you have to argue my language because you see as well whats there. to say i have faith or to say Jesus is Lord.......is one thing, to Live as if Jesus is Lord and Live by that Living and working Faith by following the spirit is entirely another.


do works save? nope. do we Have faith if we refuse the Works? nope. thers no way to seperate the 2. faith either makes us to do, or its no different from a devil saying " JESUS Son of God what do you want with us have you come to judge us before the appointed time?"

they understand Jesus is Lord, but they work opposite in disobedience. that Kind of faith is Like saying yeah Jesus came and died, and even rose BUT i dont need to believe His words or obey Him i just call Him Lord and thats all thats there. that will not save but serving Him as if He is Lord will.

lord
lôrd/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

  • 1.
    someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.






 
Apr 30, 2016
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Dude, i know what empathy is trust me. I'm a walking antennae...No kidding FranK
You're a walking antennae?

Dude, look at that picture of me.
Do I look like a dude to you?

I'm a girl, not a boy,

Get that antennae up young man!!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
No. It's WHO.

You're getting mixed up with non-saved people again. Think about this.

And WHAT the WHO said is to be DONE.
What you don't get is the Holy spirit walks with each person individually and helps them grow and become the personHood created them to be.

Does the mouth have the same function as the hand?

As our cells are growing the DNA in each cell is the same but the expression of the gene is different.

In the same why how God works in each believers life is different and how He shapes us is different.

Another analogy is good and diet. Some can eat meat. Some people actually would die if they ate too much animal protein. Some people are allergic to peanuts.


In the same way, some spiritual practices God commands certain people to do at certain times in their lives.

Therefore God's will is more than written words in the Bible and unique to each person for each day they walk this earth.
.the Holy spirit individually leads and guides each person.

The fruit of walking with the Spirit is the same BUT THAT IS NOT A WORK OF MAN BUT GOD'S WORK IN US.