The Rapture

[VCO]

It's some one or something that had been in the earth before Revelations was written but was not at that time (Revelation 17:8=in the pit) and would return from the pit afterwards. So it's not Babylon, Rome, Egypt, Greece, Nero,Claudius, Vespasian,Titus ect. because they were all in the earth and not in the pit.

Do you remember the Statue in Daniel 2. The FOUR WORLD EMPIRES, symbolized from the FIRST to the LAST in the order that they happened, from top to bottom? The Iron Legs WERE the Roman Empire. The FEET and TOES were kind of the SAME, but WEAKER because there is CLAY Mixed in with the IRON. KIND OF LIKE, BUT VERY DIFFERENT. The difference is the CLAY, representing TOO MANY HUMAN RULERS trying to Control IT. IT IS NOT A FIFTH EMPIRE, but rather a REVIVAL OF THE IRON EMPIRE. That describes the European Union of today. This should be extremely easy to understand, but the presuppositions of MANY seem to blind them to the OBVIOUS TRUTH.


Daniel 2:31-45 (HCSB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “My king, as you were watching, a colossal statue appeared. That statue, tall and dazzling, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was terrifying.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] The head of the statue was pure gold, its chest and arms were silver, its stomach and thighs were bronze,
[SUP]33 [/SUP] its legs were iron, and its feet were partly iron and partly fired clay.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] As you were watching, a stone broke off without a hand touching it, struck the statue on its feet of iron and fired clay, and crushed them.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Then the iron, the fired clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were shattered and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] “This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Your Majesty, you are king of kings. The God of heaven has given you sovereignty, power, strength, and glory.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Wherever people live—or wild animals, or birds of the air—He has handed them over to you and made you ruler over them all. You are the head of gold.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] “After you, there will arise another kingdom, inferior to yours, and then another, a third kingdom, of bronze, which will rule the whole earth.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] A fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron; for iron crushes and shatters everything, and like iron that smashes, it will crush and smash all the others.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] You saw the feet and toes, partly of a potter’s fired clay and partly of iron—it will be a divided kingdom, though some of the strength of iron will be in it. You saw the iron mixed with clay, {The TOES represent ten Kings or Rulers involved in Ruling the FINAL FORM or the IRON EMPIRE, literally a REVIVAL of the ROMAN EMPIRE.}
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and that the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly fired clay—part of the kingdom will be strong, and part will be brittle.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] You saw the iron mixed with clay—the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay. {THE NEXT VERSE CLEARLY TELLS US, that those FINAL RULERS will be Ruling at the TIME CHRIST COMES BACK TO SET UP HIS EARTHLY KINGDOM.}
[SUP]44 [/SUP] “In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and this kingdom will not be left to another people. It will crush all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself endure forever.
{THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AS DESCRIBED IN ZECH 14 & REV 19, describes more details of the crushing of those NATIONS.}

SO MUCH FOR THE DUMB THEORY THAT IT ALL HAPPENED AT THE TIME OR NEAR 70 AD. The Head Ruler rising from within that TEN NATION CONFEDERACY, will be the ONE that Satan Himself will POSSESS, becoming the Antichrist. Interestingly, there currently is a Political Movement within the European Union that is trying to Take Over, and several Nations have threatened to drop out of the European Union if that happens.

 

[VCO]

lol I'm just glad everyone else can read along and keep up...

Yeah, and we are getting a good laugh at your silly theology. Like it says, you were deceived, and now you are trying to deceive us, and failing miserably.

 

[VCO]

Acts 15:11 says that they believed they would be saved by grace even as they(gentiles) the scriptures you gave said when is it before during or after?

Acts 15:8-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now then, why are you testing God by putting a yoke on the disciples’ necks that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?
[SUP]11 [/SUP] On the contrary, we believe we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way they are.”


NOW LET ME SHOW YOU SOMETHING THAT YOU OVER-LOOKED.


Romans 4:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,


Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.


THAT IS THE SAME WAY EVERYONE WAS SAVED IN THE OT AND THE NT, AND ON INTO TO FUTURE.

SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, and NOT BY WORKS. That is why it says "not everyone of ISRAEL is ISRAEL."

So what was the Purpose of the LAW then? IT NEVER WAS A MEANS TO SAVE SINNERS, but rather, IT'S PURPOSE was to make them aware that they WERE SINNERS, DESPERATELY NEEDING A SAVIOR.



Romans 3:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

SO WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR THE SAVED TO CONTINUALLY STRIVE TO OBEY HIM?


1 John 5:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.


Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


It is an ACT OF LOVE FOR GOD.

If you find you have no LOVE FOR GOD, then you need to re-examine your heart, mourning over your sinfulness, crying out to HIM for Forgiveness, and then willingly OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM, surrender comple control of your life to JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning MASTER. No, holding back a piece of your life just for yourself, is NOT surrendering to HIM as LORD out of LOVE. He wants all of you. NO, that is not Works Righeousness, that ALL is a WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR HEART, if you really received HIM.

 

[VCO]

The Bible is pretty quiet about this age. Nothing about trains, cars, planes, rockets, modern medicine, sky scrappers, moon landings, TV, internet, etc.

Nothing about COMPUTERS, maybe you had better throw yours in the Trash Can.

 

[VCO]

The Bible is pretty quiet about this age. Nothing about trains, cars, planes, rockets, . . . etc.

And there are other verses that could be referring to modern day warfare. Here are a couple examples:

Ezekiel 1:19 (YLT)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And in the going of the living creatures, the wheels go beside them, and in the living creatures being lifted up from off the earth, lifted up are the wheels.

How would Ezekiel describe a vision of THIS:


[video=youtube;rSm0j_4FJuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSm0j_4FJuE[/video]


OR this

Ezekiel 1:13-16 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The living creatures looked like burning coals and torches. Fire moved back and forth between the living creatures. The fire was bright, and lightning came out of the fire. {Sounds like the muzzle flash with tracer rounds of a big gun to me.}
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The living creatures ran back and forth like lightning.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each of them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] This is how the wheels looked and how they were made: They looked like beryl. All four wheels looked the same. They looked like a wheel within a wheel.

What is Ezekiel looking at? Could it be this, the Army's multipurpose fast moving STRYKER?

And if this TANK can get air, imagine how often the Stryker lifts it's wheels up off the ground in a high speed battle on rough terrain.

 

[VCO]

And how did you count Six hundred threescore and six in that social security number? ​

Six digits - six digits - six digits. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the most BIBLICAL.

 

[VCO]

ok, what two prophetic dates does Daniel know the exact date of?

The signing of the Seven Year Peace Covenant and the End of the Seven Year Peace Covenant, making a Pre-Trib Rapture to only way No One Knows the Day or the Hour, can happen.

 

[VCO]

A little judgemental on your part?

No I believe Mat. 25:1-13 is LITERALLY THE WAY JESUS CHRIST WILL COME FOR HIS BRIDE, INCLUDING LEAVING BEHIND THOSE WHO DID NOT BELIEVE HE WAS COMING, and therefore failed to get ready in advance.

Matthew 25:1-13 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

 

[J7]

From when the command went forth to the rebuilding of the city
From the rebuilding of the city until Messiah

Yes they are correct.

I meant what was the one basic time period he was totally familiar with which he mentions in Daniel 9, which has a start point and end point.

 

[tanakh]

In Acts Peter told the crowd the following.....

Repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins
may be blotted out,when the times of the refreshing
shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he
shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto
you. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of
restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the
mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:19-21

It is clear from this that Christ remains in heaven until the second coming
not come back to collect everyone ,return to heaven and then make another
trip back seven years later. How plainer can it be?

 

[J7]

In Acts Peter told the crowd the following.....

Repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins
may be blotted out,when the times of the refreshing
shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he
shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto
you. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of
restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the
mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:19-21

It is clear from this that Christ remains in heaven until the second coming
not come back to collect everyone ,return to heaven and then make another
trip back seven years later. How plainer can it be?

Well said.

Jesus is not the Heathrow Shuttle bus

 

[Snoozy]

This is the Messianic temple that was being built when Peter spoke, along with foundation stones - the apostles:

Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Eph 2:22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

To be looking for an earthly temple laid in dirt and built with masonry is plainly not found in the scriptures.

u will forever be in error in ur bible study. u could study for 80 years and still be a novice. u dont rightly divide da word of truth. what u are doing is mixing da temple Israel will have and tha covenant tha antichrist makes with israel and u are trying ta force that to da church. it doesnt work. Jesus and daniel are speaking of a real physical temple in Jerusalem u cant stop da sacrifices inside a church. u will forever be wrong until u understand dat the 70 weeks are decreed upon daniel's people (israel) and the holy city (jerusalem) not to the church.

 

[KJV1611]

Six digits - six digits - six digits. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the most BIBLICAL.

Or you could do like the bible says and actually COUNT the numer 666.

 

[heartofdavid]

Well said.

Jesus is not the Heathrow Shuttle bus

Ironically Jesus " shuttles" ripe fruit (possibly Jews) out of the earth DURING the GT,in rev 14.

Your doctrine is getting a good thrashing

 

[heartofdavid]

In Acts Peter told the crowd the following.....

Repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins
may be blotted out,when the times of the refreshing
shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he
shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto
you. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of
restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the
mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:19-21

It is clear from this that Christ remains in heaven until the second coming
not come back to collect everyone ,return to heaven and then make another
trip back seven years later. How plainer can it be?

It appears one could quote rev 14 to you without end,and it would not matter.

The ONLY way postrib has traction is you guys partial bible circles.
Rev 14 alone kills your deal

 

[PlainWord]

My point is that new Jerusalem is the Jerusalem that's being talked about, not earthly Jerusalem.

In Dan 9? The dates work for the earthly Jerusalem to have been built. Remember, King Neb destroyed it. It was built in troublesome times and indeed earthly Jerusalem was as recorded in Zec.

I get that from here:

Acts 15:14-17 KJV
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

[15] And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

[16] After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

[17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Now we have the heavenly Jerusalem being discussed but not in Dan 9 as the earthly Jerusalem hadn't been built yet as of the writing.

 

[heartofdavid]

Did Darby cause Israel to become a nation and fabricate rev 14?

 

[PlainWord]

Do you remember the Statue in Daniel 2. The FOUR WORLD EMPIRES, symbolized from the FIRST to the LAST in the order that they happened, from top to bottom? The Iron Legs WERE the Roman Empire. The FEET and TOES were kind of the SAME, but WEAKER because there is CLAY Mixed in with the IRON. KIND OF LIKE, BUT VERY DIFFERENT. The difference is the CLAY, representing TOO MANY HUMAN RULERS trying to Control IT. IT IS NOT A FIFTH EMPIRE, but rather a REVIVAL OF THE IRON EMPIRE. That describes the European Union of today. This should be extremely easy to understand, but the presuppositions of MANY seem to blind them to the OBVIOUS TRUTH.

Actually the clay represents all the foreign auxiliary forces used by Rome from the 1-4th centuries. It is estimated that the Roman legions were comprised of only 5-10% actual Italians while the rest of their forces, especially in the east, were made up of Syrians, Arabs and those from the surrounding nations. These foreign forces, although under the control of Rome, in many cases had their own agenda. They would routinely disobey orders and were hard to control.

[SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This speaks of the spread of Christianity that began to spread after Christ and filled the whole earth and is still the largest faith on the planet 2,000 years later.

 

[heartofdavid]

I wonder why post tribbers do not offer that the church fathers,many of them were amilineal?

Now why were they wrong?

Get it?

WHY WERE THEY WRONG???

OOOOOPS

 

[PlainWord]

Did Darby cause Israel to become a nation and fabricate rev 14?

Rev 14 is way in the past. You missed it but still cite it as future. Sad.

Rev 14:1-5 represents the Christian church in Jerusalem made up almost entirely of Jews. Christ was with them. The tribes from all over returned to Jerusalem, as was their custom, for the Feast of Unleavened Bread in 66 AD. They were then led out of the city before the Great Trib began by a divine voice.

Rev 14:6-7 are the warning signs given to the wicked Jews of 66-70 AD to repent and turn from their ways. This ties to the warnings Christ gave of great signs in Mat 24.

Rev 14:8-11 represents the fall of Jerusalem by fire.

Rev 14:12-13 discusses the Christians in Pella and the 3.5 year rest they got from persecution at the hands of their own countrymen, and a distracted Rome. The persecution would soon start up again by the time Domitian took reign after Titus died. Notice here that their works follow them, unlike the works of the wicked in Jerusalem which were burned up (2 Pet 3) because their works were evil.

Rev 14:14-16 Harvest of the righteous (just). Wheat gathered to Pella.

Rev 14:20 Harvest of the wicked (unjust, Tares). The same punishment dealt out by Babylon will be repeated by Rome. Reminiscent of Jer 8 as John gets his imagery from the OT prophets.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I will surely consume them,” says the Lord. “No grapes shall be on the vine, Nor figs on the fig tree, And the leaf shall fade; And the things I have given them shall pass away from them.”’”

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“The harvest is past, The summer is ended, And we are not saved!”

Jerusalem is called, the "daughter of Babylon." Then here it is for the battle with Rome in Jer 50-51, a perfect match:

Cut off the sower from Babylon, And him who handles the sickle at harvest time. For fear of the oppressing sword Everyone shall turn to his own people, And everyone shall flee to his own land.

For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor When it is time to thresh her; Yet a little while And the time of her harvest will come.”

Same used by John in Mat 3 when discussing the religious leaders of his day:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”