Not By Works

[Limey410v2]

The word sanctimonious, for some reason came to my mind. Anybody that can read, knows what Christ said, it is written for all to see. Yet not everyone seems to understand what He came to do.

 

[FlSnookman7]

So since you do everything UNTO Jesus, you must surely do everything PERFECTLY, as in your demonstration using these three guys (when we have Jesus available to us...)

So, apparently you're one of these people who NEVER SIN because Jesus is right there with you digging away at that hole...

You're one lucky dude.

And Jesus does this for everyone who agrees with you?

So there are Others on this thread THAT NEVER SIN or work for anything?

Here's what JESUS said:

"If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me".
Luke 9.23

"For whever is ashamed of Me and MY WORDS, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory"...
Luke 9:26

Jesus is saying that one has to deny himself, pick up his cross daily to follow Jesus.
FOLLOW means that there is a LEADER. Jesus is that leader. Jesus is saying not to try to get away from hard times.

Jesus is saying that self.sacrifice is the way to getting away from yourself to get to Jesus.
Because he continues with the idea of LOSING one's soul, by NOT self-sacrificing.

Do not be ashamed of Jesus' words.
Jesus left us with many teachings that we are to follow.

Maybe we should all find out what they are?

Hi Fran! The main "teaching" Jesus left us is to have faith in Him and what He did at the cross. It is His righteousness we are given not our own. To say we must do this or not do that to keep or stay righteous or saved is to say Jesus finished work on the cross somehow is insufficient and needs our help. Think about it for a moment, could there be a more arrogant statement? Jesus took all the world's sin and did all the healing He will ever do on that cross. Do not lessen His sacrifice by seeking to add to it somehow by how we live, instead have faith that His work is sufficient and believe what God says about you instead of what you think, see or feel.

 

[UnderGrace]

So true, the position in the grace of God for the believer is secure,

however, our experience of His grace can be impacted by this turning away to our self-effort and striving.

In fact by striving to obtain what we already possess, we fall short of trust, and of belief and of truly accepting what has been given.

We place the onus back on ourselves and our ability, instead of where it rightfully belongs. In the hands and on the shoulders of the only one that can truly and successfully bare it.

That seems to be a turning away of sorts.

 

[Sully]

The word sanctimonious, for some reason came to my mind. Anybody that can read, knows what Christ said, it is written for all to see. Yet not everyone seems to understand what He came to do.

Or maybe they do understand and have a nefarious mission, aka 1037 pages of denying simplistic gospel genius.

 

[Limey410v2]

Or maybe they do understand and have a nefarious mission, aka 1037 pages of denying simplistic gospel genius.

Ahhhh, be careful, that word simple, it doesn't go down too well, it is most often times paired with easy! And we don't like easy, even if Jesus Himself said "my yolk is easy, my burden light"

I truly don't believe nefarious, just misguided and incorrect. Trying to do the best they can I suppose. But I could be wrong, it happens quite often.

 

[BillG]

So Jimbo, do you believe Christ sinned?

Funnily enough this morning I was thinking about these words

"My God my God why have you foresaken me? When Jesus was on the cross.

Psalms 22:1
Psalm 22
For the choir director: A psalm of David, to be sung to the tune “Doe of the Dawn.”
1 My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?
Why are you so far away when I groan for help?

A Psalm of David, a man after Gods own heart.

Isaiah 53:4-5
4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.

When Jesus hung on that cross all of the sins of the world was laid on him.

The original sin was for us to deny God and in order to put it right God had to reverse it.
He did that on the cross.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

We know Jesus did not deny God but for that period of time we know that he who had no sin took our sin upon him.
Whilst that was happening Jesus said "My God my God why have you forsake me?

Not denying God but realising for a period of time he would be separated from the Father.

 

[UnderGrace]

Nefarious mission seems to be only plausible reason.....at least we provide a consistent message. This comes as no surprise, the gospel is the gospel.

The workers and lawyers seem to make it up as they go along.....

Or maybe they do understand and have a nefarious mission, aka 1037 pages of denying simplistic gospel genius.

 

[FranC]

Hi Fran! The main "teaching" Jesus left us is to have faith in Him and what He did at the cross. It is His righteousness we are given not our own. To say we must do this or not do that to keep or stay righteous or saved is to say Jesus finished work on the cross somehow is insufficient and needs our help. Think about it for a moment, could there be a more arrogant statement? Jesus took all the world's sin and did all the healing He will ever do on that cross. Do not lessen His sacrifice by seeking to add to it somehow by how we live, instead have faith that His work is sufficient and believe what God says about you instead of what you think, see or feel.

When'r you gonna cook that fish??
It's gonna go bad...

Here's what Jesus had to say:

"Go therefore and MAKE DISCIPLES of all the nations......."
"teaching them to observe all that I COMMANDED YOU....."
Mathew 28:19

It sounds like Jesus is telling the Apostles to go and make DISCIPLES.

So, what IS a disciple? Is it someone who just has faith in what Jesus did at the cross?
NO.
A disciple is a pupil, a follower, and adherent of ANY TEACHER.

Jesus' early ministry began with these words:
"Come, FOLLOW ME, and I will make you fishers of men..."
Mathew 4:19

So, apparently Jesus would very much like it if we were all a bit more arrogant and actually DID WHAT HE TAUGHT !
This would be a GOOD arrogance.

But what did Jesus teach?

When He was in the "desert" (outside the city) He told satan...
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the MOUTH OF GOD"
Mathew 4:4

Since Jesus IS God, it would be fitting that we HEAR every word that proceeded out of HIS MOUTH.

The most extensive teaching of Jesus on HOW we are to behave and WHAT we are to do is in
Mathew 5.

In verse 1, He goes up on a hill overlooking the Sea of Gallilee and SITS DOWN.
Whenever a Rabbi had something to teach and there were persons around, he sat down. This means that he had something important to say and the Others should PAY ATTENTION.

In verse 2, JESUS OPENS HIS MOUTH.

He proceeds with the Beatitudes. Chapters 5 to 7. If we did nothing else but work on 5:3-10, these works would be sufficient to show the world how Christians are DIFFERENT from everyone else.

Don't you believe Jesus would like us to be different from the secular world?

Then He goes on and on to TEACH so much, just read these 3 chapters.
And then there's so much more throught Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, the letters.

Let's not forget James:
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

Let's not put everything on Jesus. He did a lot for us. Now let's do a lot for HIM.
I doubt He would look upon this as arrogance since it's WHAT HE TAUGHT...

Jesus did not REQUEST when He opened His mouth...
HE'S GOD
GOD DEMANDS
HE ALWAYS DID AND HE ALWAYS WILL.
GOD DOES NOT REQUEST...

 

[Limey410v2]

Funnily enough this morning I was thinking about these words

"My God my God why have you foresaken me? When Jesus was on the cross.

Psalms 22:1
Psalm 22
For the choir director: A psalm of David, to be sung to the tune “Doe of the Dawn.”
1 My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?
Why are you so far away when I groan for help?

A Psalm of David, a man after Gods own heart.

Isaiah 53:4-5
4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.

When Jesus hung on that cross all of the sins of the world was laid on him.

The original sin was for us to deny God and in order to put it right God had to reverse it.
He did that on the cross.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

We know Jesus did not deny God but for that period of time we know that he who had no sin took our sin upon him.
Whilst that was happening Jesus said "My God my God why have you forsake me?

Not denying God but realising for a period of time he would be separated from the Father.

Always sobering!

 

[FranC]

Nefarious mission seems to be only plausible reason.....at least we provide a consistent message. This comes as no surprise, the gospel is the gospel.

The workers and lawyers seem to make it up as they go along.....

How come "you" grace people are Always gossiping?

Maybe because you don't think Jesus demands anything of you?

Yeah.
That's the ticket !!

 

[FranC]

Ahhhh, be careful, that word simple, it doesn't go down too well, it is most often times paired with easy! And we don't like easy, even if Jesus Himself said "my yolk is easy, my burden light"

I truly don't believe nefarious, just misguided and incorrect. Trying to do the best they can I suppose. But I could be wrong, it happens quite often.

Jesus said

"My yoke is easy"

He didn't say

There is NO YOKE.


This is so simple to understand, I won't even waste time explaining it.

 

[JIMBO43]

So Jimbo, do you believe Christ sinned?

nope i was just seeing if our latest friend in this thread wants to condem me to hell.... i belive Jesus commited an emotional outburst coz his his Body was pure and he felt its pain..

moving on to all the would be christian condemers or radicals i would like to call them..

This is an intresting fact that there has been more deaths of jews by christians than any other sect including the muslims...If dont believe me ask the vicar of bagdad..

 

[FranC]

By adding works to salvation/eternal life either at the front, back or middle puts God in our debt a person does this when they say salvation is not secure in Jesus or there is some work attached to it.

Why because when we are working then there is a wage due for eternal life, this means we are expecting payment

for a work He has declared that He has done through Christ Jesus and He has said it is a gift.

He cannot be in our debt for salvation/eternal life, this renders it not of grace.

If I give you a gift and you insist on working for it then you make my gift a wage due rather than a gift, that is insulting. Capiche?

Paul is very clear about this:
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Romans 4:4-6).

Gifts, Works, Arrogance...

You sure do have a funny way of disagreeing with Jesus.
Oh. It's not funny, BTW.

Hope you read my last couple of posts.

 

[Limey410v2]

I am so thankful that my God loves me.

 

[Limey410v2]

nope i was just seeing if our latest friend in this thread wants to condem me to hell.... i belive Jesus commited an emotional outburst coz his his Body was pure and he felt its pain..

moving on to all the would be christian condemers or radicals i would like to call them..

This is an intresting fact that there has been more deaths of jews by christians than any other sect including the muslims...If dont believe me ask the vicar of bagdad..

You are a believer Jimbo, there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus, you will not go to hell. But I'm glad you don't think our Savior sinned.

 

[JIMBO43]

how does God deny God??

This is not correct coz Jesus was made a man for a little while.. coz Even the angels will be made as equal for a little while..

[h=1]Hosea 3:4-5King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]


4 [/SUP]For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.


my friend the law will be re established.......

 

[UnderGrace]

Gossip: rumor or report of an intimate nature

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gossip

I did not know we were talking about things of an intimate nature. I'll tell if you will?

Jesus demands? ....here is one...is this the one you mean?


Matthew 5:48 [SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How come "you" grace people are Always gossiping?

Maybe because you don't think Jesus demands anything of you?

Yeah.
That's the ticket !!

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually I am still waiting on Hebrews 10:26

But you are saying Paul disagreed with Jesus?

Gifts, Works, Arrogance...

You sure do have a funny way of disagreeing with Jesus.
Oh. It's not funny, BTW.

Hope you read my last couple of posts.

 

[FranC]

I am so thankful that my God loves me.

This is good.
But do you love HIM?

"if you love Me, you will keep My commandments".
John 14:15

 

[BillG]

Always sobering!

As I was pondering my thoughts this morning I was thinking about Jesus carrying the cross. Crown of thorns on his head, the beating he had taken before.

I remember watching Jesus of Nazerath on TV.
When it came to the cruxifixtion it was like "Ow that hurts"

Like a splinter in the finger.

When I came to realise it was six inch thick nails driven into his body whilst blood dripped down his bruised beaten face that horrified me.

I used to think that it horrified Jesus.

I myself think that the physical for Jesus was not the problem.
When he said "If possible please let this cup pass me by" I don't think it was the physical beating and cruel death that was about to happen. He knew it was going to happen.

To me what anguished Jesus more was separation from the Father.

He and the Father were together from the beginning and for a short period of time they would not be.
That would have Jesus and the Father so much. The sky went black and they couldn't be together.

How painful?

God with Adam "Adam where are you?

Jesus with God, "Where are you?