Not By Works
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P
You didn't answer my question.
How does not really believing the gospel make it so that the person who did really believe does not have to hold fast the gospel to be saved?
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
How does not really believing the gospel make it so that the person who did really believe does not have to hold fast the gospel to be saved?
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
P
Romans 3:19 NASB
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God...
Being 'under' the law means being under the condemnation of the law. Everyone is condemned by the law. That's why the law makes the whole world accountable to God.
The law as a covenant was for the nation of Israel. Gentiles could join the nation of Israel to be a part of the covenant and so they became 'under' the law in that sense. But gentiles have always been under the condemnation of the law.
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God...
Being 'under' the law means being under the condemnation of the law. Everyone is condemned by the law. That's why the law makes the whole world accountable to God.
The law as a covenant was for the nation of Israel. Gentiles could join the nation of Israel to be a part of the covenant and so they became 'under' the law in that sense. But gentiles have always been under the condemnation of the law.
The covenant in the New Testament carries a higher expectation. In the OT the focus is on what NOT to do, but the NT the focus is on what TO do.
The NT covenant is not about only our actions, but it focuses down to even our heart's motivations. With this higher expectation we are His workmanship revealing the power of Christ. He is revealing His grace that empowers us to desire the ways of God and it's not an overwhelming burden because we are living-out what we receive in our indwelling relationship with Him.
Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
The NT covenant is not about only our actions, but it focuses down to even our heart's motivations. With this higher expectation we are His workmanship revealing the power of Christ. He is revealing His grace that empowers us to desire the ways of God and it's not an overwhelming burden because we are living-out what we receive in our indwelling relationship with Him.
Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Hi Meggido,
Not to interrupt, but you asked a great question. You're right in saying as Gentiles we don't come in under Moses, but under the promise of the gentile Abraham. However, Scripture does teach that those not under the law are still judged by the law written on their own heart. They are a law unto themselves.
Romans 2:12 All those who sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all those who sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous. 14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences confirm this. Their competing thoughts will either accuse or excuse them 16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
Not to interrupt, but you asked a great question. You're right in saying as Gentiles we don't come in under Moses, but under the promise of the gentile Abraham. However, Scripture does teach that those not under the law are still judged by the law written on their own heart. They are a law unto themselves.
Romans 2:12 All those who sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all those who sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous. 14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences confirm this. Their competing thoughts will either accuse or excuse them 16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
Originally Posted by Meggido
Please show me book,. chapter and verse....not upset, but show me this....the books are not the law...how are gentiles judged under a law written for the Jews?
I was wondering about this, as Christians we forget that is true.
Historically secular law is based on the ten commandments but really from God's point of view the gentile is still not under those laws.
I was wondering about this, as Christians we forget that is true.
Historically secular law is based on the ten commandments but really from God's point of view the gentile is still not under those laws.
Scripture support:
Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Rom 10:11-13, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 2:28-29, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 2:12, For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law
God bless
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Here you go...
Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
No one says we do not need to have faith. In fact it is only by Faith that God puts His Laws in our heart so that we can follow Him through Love (Heb 8:10-12) Faith does not replace God's Law it establishes it in the heart of the believer
Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
No one says we do not need to have faith. In fact it is only by Faith that God puts His Laws in our heart so that we can follow Him through Love (Heb 8:10-12) Faith does not replace God's Law it establishes it in the heart of the believer
U
Well I am not really sure what you mean, but I do believe historically speaking and according to some schools of thought in American history the Hebrew laws did impact the development of civil laws. (Now I am not American, and I was taught in Canada so maybe this is just American bias ) In the end it has nothing to so with the discussion.
Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
BRIA 16 4 a The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law - Constitutional Rights Foundation
Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
BRIA 16 4 a The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law - Constitutional Rights Foundation
God's judgment is according to His truth. What is His Truth? Jesus Christ is the truth. He said love fulfills all the law and all the prophets. If you are under the grace of God and covered (via faith) by the shedding of His Son's righteous blood, there is no condemnation. But if you are not covered by this grace, you are condemned (Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18). Condemned by what? Is God's standard not the law? Do not lie, do not cheat, do not steal, do not covet etc. Love does no harm to others. Love does not bear false witness, commit adultery, steal, covet etc... Love puts God first.
Scripture is clear: laws are for the lawless (1 Tim 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine). By what other standard would God judge? I do not mean the 613 mitzvah. Men are without excuse for rejecting God (Romans one). Are not the Noahide laws for all humanity? No there is no chapter and verse for this. But there are these:
James 2:10 ESV
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in
one point has become accountable for all of it.
Does this not mean that people are judged by the law if they live by the law, which is for the lawless, meaning those not covered by the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ?
Hebrews 9:27 ESV
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
By what other standard would you suppose God uses to judge mankind?
I mean on judgment day, when all stand before Him, to pass either into
life ever after, or into the eternal punishment of the second death.
2 Peter 3:2-7
Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Again I ask, by what other standard would God use to judge the ungodly?
(Nor am I angry, I am seriously asking, is there some other standard?)
Matthew 12:36-37 (men will be judged according to their words); Matthew 16:27 (every man will be rewarded according to his works); Romans 12:19 (God will repay men for the evil they have done); 2 Timothy 4:14 (God will reward this evil man according to his works); Revelation 18:4-6, Judges 1:7 ("as I have done, so God hath requited me"); 2 Samuel 3:39; Psalm 28:4; Psalm 62:12; Psalm 94:1-2; Proverbs 22:12; and Jeremiah 17:10.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
John 12:48 ESV
The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge;
the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Romans 2:16 ESV
On that day when, according to my gospel, God
judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Acts 17:31 ESV
Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world
in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this
he has given assurance to all by raising him (Jesus) from the dead.
Romans 13:2 ESV
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God
has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
1 Peter 4:17-19 ESV
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God;
and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who
do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely
saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will
entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.
Psalm 1:5-6 ESV
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor
sinners in the congregation of the righteous; for the Lord
knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.
Have I left anything out? Probably
I am sorry for my tardy response. Please pray for me to get my work done here, for I am having an inspection tomorrow and need to do quite a bit more to prepare for it.
Scripture is clear: laws are for the lawless (1 Tim 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine). By what other standard would God judge? I do not mean the 613 mitzvah. Men are without excuse for rejecting God (Romans one). Are not the Noahide laws for all humanity? No there is no chapter and verse for this. But there are these:
James 2:10 ESV
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in
one point has become accountable for all of it.
Does this not mean that people are judged by the law if they live by the law, which is for the lawless, meaning those not covered by the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ?
Hebrews 9:27 ESV
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
By what other standard would you suppose God uses to judge mankind?
I mean on judgment day, when all stand before Him, to pass either into
life ever after, or into the eternal punishment of the second death.
2 Peter 3:2-7
Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Again I ask, by what other standard would God use to judge the ungodly?
(Nor am I angry, I am seriously asking, is there some other standard?)
Matthew 12:36-37 (men will be judged according to their words); Matthew 16:27 (every man will be rewarded according to his works); Romans 12:19 (God will repay men for the evil they have done); 2 Timothy 4:14 (God will reward this evil man according to his works); Revelation 18:4-6, Judges 1:7 ("as I have done, so God hath requited me"); 2 Samuel 3:39; Psalm 28:4; Psalm 62:12; Psalm 94:1-2; Proverbs 22:12; and Jeremiah 17:10.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
John 12:48 ESV
The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge;
the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Romans 2:16 ESV
On that day when, according to my gospel, God
judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Acts 17:31 ESV
Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world
in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this
he has given assurance to all by raising him (Jesus) from the dead.
Romans 13:2 ESV
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God
has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
1 Peter 4:17-19 ESV
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God;
and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who
do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely
saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will
entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.
Psalm 1:5-6 ESV
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor
sinners in the congregation of the righteous; for the Lord
knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.
Have I left anything out? Probably
I am sorry for my tardy response. Please pray for me to get my work done here, for I am having an inspection tomorrow and need to do quite a bit more to prepare for it.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
There will be a spiritual Israel on earth,and Israel is the Church.
Israel is blinded in part,they acknowledge the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority,but the nation of Israel must come to the truth.
Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to them when they take the mark of the beast at the beast kingdom.
And so all Israel shall be saved,from physical attack after the 7 years period,and physical Israel will become spiritual Israel for they turned to Jesus.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance,and God said,I am the LORD,I change not,therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed,and God has not cast away His people He once foreknew,and if the ordinances of heaven are in effect,the sun,moon,and stars,God's covenant is still with Israel.
Abraham is the father of many nations,and all are blessed that have the faith of Abraham,and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and a Gentile when saved is a Jew inward,and part of the commonwealth of Israel,and the millennial reign of Christ is given to the Jews,for the kingdom will be restored to them at that time,and the earth will pass away,and the 12 tribes of Israel,and the 12 apostles of the Lamb,are written in the New Jerusalem.
It is Israel all the way,from Abraham to the New Jerusalem,Old Testament given to the Jews,and New Testament given to the Jews,and millennial reign of Christ given to the Jews,and the New Jerusalem given to the Jews,and a Gentile can be a part of it who becomes a Jew.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Israel is the Church,but because of their disobedience they lost the physical dominion on earth,but will get it back in the millennial reign of Christ,but God said there are Jews that abide in the truth,like there were Jews on His side when they were disobedient in the Old Testament.
God is not going to blame all Jews because some are disobedient,even if they are the majority,which God will not blame the Church if there is hypocritical Christians,and will not blame all the Gentiles because some are disobedient,even if it is the majority,for there are Gentiles that are disobedient,but the same truth of Jesus,and the Bible,has been preached to them,as to the Jews.
Disobedience of some Jews does not cause God to give up on them,but they lost the physical dominion temporarily,but will get it back.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
There will be a spiritual Israel on earth,and Israel is the Church.
Israel is blinded in part,they acknowledge the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority,but the nation of Israel must come to the truth.
Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to them when they take the mark of the beast at the beast kingdom.
And so all Israel shall be saved,from physical attack after the 7 years period,and physical Israel will become spiritual Israel for they turned to Jesus.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance,and God said,I am the LORD,I change not,therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed,and God has not cast away His people He once foreknew,and if the ordinances of heaven are in effect,the sun,moon,and stars,God's covenant is still with Israel.
Abraham is the father of many nations,and all are blessed that have the faith of Abraham,and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and a Gentile when saved is a Jew inward,and part of the commonwealth of Israel,and the millennial reign of Christ is given to the Jews,for the kingdom will be restored to them at that time,and the earth will pass away,and the 12 tribes of Israel,and the 12 apostles of the Lamb,are written in the New Jerusalem.
It is Israel all the way,from Abraham to the New Jerusalem,Old Testament given to the Jews,and New Testament given to the Jews,and millennial reign of Christ given to the Jews,and the New Jerusalem given to the Jews,and a Gentile can be a part of it who becomes a Jew.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Israel is the Church,but because of their disobedience they lost the physical dominion on earth,but will get it back in the millennial reign of Christ,but God said there are Jews that abide in the truth,like there were Jews on His side when they were disobedient in the Old Testament.
God is not going to blame all Jews because some are disobedient,even if they are the majority,which God will not blame the Church if there is hypocritical Christians,and will not blame all the Gentiles because some are disobedient,even if it is the majority,for there are Gentiles that are disobedient,but the same truth of Jesus,and the Bible,has been preached to them,as to the Jews.
Disobedience of some Jews does not cause God to give up on them,but they lost the physical dominion temporarily,but will get it back.