Not By Works
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Blessings to your mom! Yes, we have had our disagreements on hell (translated from at least four different words in the original languages) and of course that does bring different elements into play, for example, as many do, you say the soul is immortal whereas Scriptures says that only God is immortal. They are all peripheral to the main issue, though, and none are salvation issues. We believe that God purposed Jesus from before the foundation of the world to be the propitiation for the sin of the world, that we may be reconciled to God, to be partakers of His goodness, mercy, and grace forever after 
God has give all of us life. If we want life more abundant, we need to look to the author of life. One of the funny/weird things about atheists I discovered is that they would complain of being kept out of heaven just because they refused to believe in God. It is like they were saying, we want what He has to offer, but we refuse to acknowledge Him for it in the first place! We want to go to His house but pretend He is not the Host. They did not like having their lack of logic pointed out to them, though. The pride of life blinds people in so many ways.
B
I heard one guy say his wife was driving him crazy. He told his Christian counselor "When it is hot she wants it cool; when cool she wants it hot, she always wants what it is not. When I finally begin to understand her moods she changes her mind. I don't know what to do with her. The counselor said: "Just give her to the Lord." He said, "I did, but He doesn't want her either"
1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on the alert. Stand firm in the faith. Be men of courage. Be strong.
Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it was taught, so that by sound teaching he will be able to encourage others and refute those who contradict this message.
1 Cor 15:58
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,
17 encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.
Be on the alert. Stand firm in the faith. Be men of courage. Be strong.
Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it was taught, so that by sound teaching he will be able to encourage others and refute those who contradict this message.
1 Cor 15:58
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,
17 encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.
Hi Fran,
I agree that Jesus fulfilled the law. I also believe that not one jot or tittle will pass away until all is fulfilled. And I don't believe that all is fulfilled yet.
Here's how I look at the law. We aren't under it, but we're still to obey the righteous requirements of the law through faith in Jesus.
Here's what Jesus told the apostles: And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Jesus told us to love God and to love our neighbor as ourself. The teaching of the apostles contain everything Jesus commanded us.
So every command in the apostles teachings are those things that we are to do and live by. And I really believe that their teaching are explanations of what love looks like. If we love God and our neighbor, we will be loving towards them. We will be kind and patient etc. We will not put a stumbling block in someone's way who is seeking the Lord. We will begin to put others first before ourselves.
Jesus brought to us the gospel of the kingdom of god. He went everywhere preaching it. We are to obey the commands of Jesus.
By God's grace through faith, the power of the sin nature has been broken. We no longer have to sin anymore.
We will sin and that's why we have an advocate with the Father. We confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Oh the beauty of God's grace!
The way I would put our responsibilities as a new creation in Christ is that if I'm created for a purpose, and if God is in me to work out His purpose in my life, I will obey Him. I will love Him and gladly obey His commandments. I will take upon me his yoke and learn from Him because His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
So I will live a life to please my Lord and Savior and obey whatever He tells me to do. I love, therefore I obey now that I'm His.
I agree that Jesus fulfilled the law. I also believe that not one jot or tittle will pass away until all is fulfilled. And I don't believe that all is fulfilled yet.
Here's how I look at the law. We aren't under it, but we're still to obey the righteous requirements of the law through faith in Jesus.
Here's what Jesus told the apostles: And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Jesus told us to love God and to love our neighbor as ourself. The teaching of the apostles contain everything Jesus commanded us.
So every command in the apostles teachings are those things that we are to do and live by. And I really believe that their teaching are explanations of what love looks like. If we love God and our neighbor, we will be loving towards them. We will be kind and patient etc. We will not put a stumbling block in someone's way who is seeking the Lord. We will begin to put others first before ourselves.
Jesus brought to us the gospel of the kingdom of god. He went everywhere preaching it. We are to obey the commands of Jesus.
By God's grace through faith, the power of the sin nature has been broken. We no longer have to sin anymore.
We will sin and that's why we have an advocate with the Father. We confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Oh the beauty of God's grace!
The way I would put our responsibilities as a new creation in Christ is that if I'm created for a purpose, and if God is in me to work out His purpose in my life, I will obey Him. I will love Him and gladly obey His commandments. I will take upon me his yoke and learn from Him because His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
So I will live a life to please my Lord and Savior and obey whatever He tells me to do. I love, therefore I obey now that I'm His.
you called it the gift of discernment, not me....and that is not the name of the gift....I even posted the name for you, straight out of the Bible.....the fact you cannot humble yourself enough to take the correction you were given proves everything I said about you is accurate....most like you, that state you have this gift and then are corrected blow up this way and stomp around....
The law is for the lawless. The law stands to condemn sinners. Those not found covered by the shed righteous blood of Christ on judgment day will be judged and condemned according to the requirements of the law. There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. The law has been nailed to the cross with every jot and tittle intact.
Hi Megiddo,
First, I want to say that I'm not proposing we come under the law. Why would we now that we have Jesus? I just wanted to say that so no one misunderstands my reason for the question. Gotta be super extra careful around here!
But:
What about Romans 7 where Paul speak about the law?
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
The law reveals to us like it did to Paul that we're a sinner right?
But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
So when the law comes and convicts us as a law-breaker, sin becomes alive in us now. We now know that we're a sinner and we knowingly spiritually die, yes? Sin deceived me and the commandment killed me because the wages of sin is death, yes?
Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
The law which is good was not the cause of my death. It was my sin that caused my death. So isn't the law still my tutor or schoolmaster? And then when I realize I'm a sinner, then I come to the Lord through the faith you're speaking of?
Just trying to harmonize Romans 7 with your Galatians scripture.
Thanks!
First, I want to say that I'm not proposing we come under the law. Why would we now that we have Jesus? I just wanted to say that so no one misunderstands my reason for the question.
Gotta be super extra careful around here!But:
What about Romans 7 where Paul speak about the law?
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
The law reveals to us like it did to Paul that we're a sinner right?
But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
So when the law comes and convicts us as a law-breaker, sin becomes alive in us now. We now know that we're a sinner and we knowingly spiritually die, yes? Sin deceived me and the commandment killed me because the wages of sin is death, yes?
Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
The law which is good was not the cause of my death. It was my sin that caused my death. So isn't the law still my tutor or schoolmaster? And then when I realize I'm a sinner, then I come to the Lord through the faith you're speaking of?
Just trying to harmonize Romans 7 with your Galatians scripture.
Thanks!
John 16.8-11
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; [SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; [SUP]11 [/SUP]and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Maybe Romans 7.25- Romans 8.1-5 is harmonized better with 1 Cor 15.56-58
[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; [SUP]57 [/SUP]but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]58 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
Romans 7.25
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
I would read all of Galatians 3....the verses I posted do not reveal the whole thought....the whole thought starts with Gal 3.15 and finishes in Gal 4.20
No, it disagrees with everything you are syaing...you still think the Law brings us to Jesus Christ and then we exercise our faith....this passage does not say this...it says the Law was our tutor until Christ...but now faith replaces the law, that faith is activated when we are drawn by the Holy Spirit that we need Jesus Christ...The Holy Spirit draws us to Christ...not the "Holy Law"....
B
God's only commands is to love Him with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves: This fulfills all the law and the prophets, but we need God to do this through us, because we can do nothing without the author and finisher of our faith. The law of God is finished through Christ; Its been done period.
Jesus said, "It is finished" end of this story already. There is no sense in trying to resurrect the law or sneak the law back in any form for us to follow as a condition for our salvation. That is dangerous. It is either by grace through faith we are saved or it is works; make up your mind.
Jesus said, "It is finished" end of this story already. There is no sense in trying to resurrect the law or sneak the law back in any form for us to follow as a condition for our salvation. That is dangerous. It is either by grace through faith we are saved or it is works; make up your mind.
Hi Magenta,
Just to be clear, I said we're not under law, but we're under God's grace. Amen, there's no condemnation for those in Christ.
However, the law has not been nailed to the cross. Many have taught Colossians 2:14 incorrectly.
Vs 13 and 14 - When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Hallelujah, we're forgiven all of our transgressions, every single one. For an example, we have a police officer who's in the traffic division. He writes traffic tickets all day long.
And let's say that I'm one to speed every where I go and I run stop lights, stop signs etc so I have a mass of tickets that show me all my transgressions of the law.
I continue to receive fines in the mail reminding me to appear in court to pay them. I have amassed a huge debt because I transgressed every traffic law on the books.
Jesus dies on the cross and he paid my debt in full. I no longer owe a debt for my past transgressions because out of His kindness and mercy He paid the true debt, His life for mine because the wages of sin is death. So my payment I owed for all those transgressions was death, but Jesus paid my debt in full so I can live and not die for my sins.
So what did Jesus take and nail to the cross? Was it the law? No, the law is holy, righteous and good. Jesus took all those tickets and nailed them to the cross. Every ordinance that stood against me, that accused me, that told me I was a law breaker........every single hand written ticket was nailed to the cross to die and to be remembered no more.
Jesus paid the certificate of debt, the huge long list of transgressions agains the law He took upon Him with His action for atonement on the cross and He nailed every single decree that stood against me. Again, Hallelujah........what love.......what mercy and what grace.....the God of all grace forgave me, cleansed me and gave me new life.
Just to be clear, I said we're not under law, but we're under God's grace. Amen, there's no condemnation for those in Christ.
However, the law has not been nailed to the cross. Many have taught Colossians 2:14 incorrectly.
Vs 13 and 14 - When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Hallelujah, we're forgiven all of our transgressions, every single one. For an example, we have a police officer who's in the traffic division. He writes traffic tickets all day long.
And let's say that I'm one to speed every where I go and I run stop lights, stop signs etc so I have a mass of tickets that show me all my transgressions of the law.
I continue to receive fines in the mail reminding me to appear in court to pay them. I have amassed a huge debt because I transgressed every traffic law on the books.
Jesus dies on the cross and he paid my debt in full. I no longer owe a debt for my past transgressions because out of His kindness and mercy He paid the true debt, His life for mine because the wages of sin is death. So my payment I owed for all those transgressions was death, but Jesus paid my debt in full so I can live and not die for my sins.
So what did Jesus take and nail to the cross? Was it the law? No, the law is holy, righteous and good. Jesus took all those tickets and nailed them to the cross. Every ordinance that stood against me, that accused me, that told me I was a law breaker........every single hand written ticket was nailed to the cross to die and to be remembered no more.
Jesus paid the certificate of debt, the huge long list of transgressions agains the law He took upon Him with His action for atonement on the cross and He nailed every single decree that stood against me. Again, Hallelujah........what love.......what mercy and what grace.....the God of all grace forgave me, cleansed me and gave me new life.
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Hello DesertsRose. My post was not directed at you. I am sorry if you felt it was.
The law remains intact to judge the unrighteous.
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
The effect of this is as the law being nailed to the cross.
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
How do we do this? Jesus said all the law was fulfilled by love.
The law remains intact to judge the unrighteous.
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
The effect of this is as the law being nailed to the cross.
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
How do we do this? Jesus said all the law was fulfilled by love.
Hi Burninglight,
I'm not bringing in the law of Moses. I'm talking about what the righteous requirements of the law that are met in us through Christ.
Now that we're His and we live by faith, what does that look like. Faith obeys. What do we obey? The righteous requirement of the law.
That has not been done away with and this was what I believe the Lord was talking about when He said that not one jot or tittle would pass away from the law. I could be wrong here, but I believe that He meant the righteous requirements of the law, not the law of Moses.
What are the righteous requirements of the law? They are spelled out in the 10 commandments. And all of those requirements of the law are met in us through faith in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8.....Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
~
Those in the flesh transgress God's law, those in the Spirit obey the righteous requirements of the law. Because we are under God's grace we receive forgiveness of sin.
Those who walk according to the law are judged and receive death because the wages of sin is death. But Jesus paid our debt and we walk in newness of life forever. Because we have received grace, that grace is forgiveness of sin, but it's also walking in the Spirit which means we'll walk in obedience.
I'm not bringing in the law of Moses. I'm talking about what the righteous requirements of the law that are met in us through Christ.
Now that we're His and we live by faith, what does that look like. Faith obeys. What do we obey? The righteous requirement of the law.
That has not been done away with and this was what I believe the Lord was talking about when He said that not one jot or tittle would pass away from the law. I could be wrong here, but I believe that He meant the righteous requirements of the law, not the law of Moses.
What are the righteous requirements of the law? They are spelled out in the 10 commandments. And all of those requirements of the law are met in us through faith in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8.....Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
~
Those in the flesh transgress God's law, those in the Spirit obey the righteous requirements of the law. Because we are under God's grace we receive forgiveness of sin.
Those who walk according to the law are judged and receive death because the wages of sin is death. But Jesus paid our debt and we walk in newness of life forever. Because we have received grace, that grace is forgiveness of sin, but it's also walking in the Spirit which means we'll walk in obedience.