Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

Yes after the law has brought you to the cross....... then a person lives in the LIBERTY and Power of God's Grace by the Spirit, not the Law.

Hi UG,

Not really because I am not saying what you think I am saying. It is only through God's Law that we come to the cross. This is where we find Jesus. Without the Law of God you cannot find the cross. It brings us there so that we can be justified by faith in God's promises. This is how we are to continue in God's Word by complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. By Faith are you save (from sin) and not of yourselves... it is a gift of God. The post you quoted me from is from Rom 8 as well . I love that whole chapter it is the new Covenant and combines with Heb 8:10-12

God bless

 

[Gabriel2020]

Your so called wise preacher told you a out right lie because he cant give it but god can just like he said he would. Discerning of spirits mean all spirits human , demonic and holy.and with you i have tasted the spirit by the spirit. Your fruits are bad fruits.

 

[Grace777x70]

Or it is a thread the thread of Babylon (confusion). Lots of lovely people here but a lot of confusion as well

If Christians gathers to worship the Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday as in the Old testament - are these Christian talking the mark of the beast?

I saw that on a website put up by Sabbath keepers as in the Old Testament way.

Can you imagine the "spiritual dingbats" that would say that Christians are taking the mark of the beast because they assemble together on a Sunday? What kind of a deceiving spirit from the enemy would "bewitch" these people do you think?


( In reality we worship the Lord every day because we are in Christ and one day is like every other day because Christ is our true Sabbath rest - thank you Jesus! )

 

[Desertsrose]

Gal 3.23-29 kind of disagrees with you....The Law showed us Christ , until faith came.....

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Hi Megiddo,

First, I want to say that I'm not proposing we come under the law. Why would we now that we have Jesus? I just wanted to say that so no one misunderstands my reason for the question. Gotta be super extra careful around here!
But:
What about Romans 7 where Paul speak about the law?

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

The law reveals to us like it did to Paul that we're a sinner right?

But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

​So when the law comes and convicts us as a law-breaker, sin becomes alive in us now. We now know that we're a sinner and we knowingly spiritually die, yes? Sin deceived me and the commandment killed me because the wages of sin is death, yes?


Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The law which is good was not the cause of my death. It was my sin that caused my death. So isn't the law still my tutor or schoolmaster? And then when I realize I'm a sinner, then I come to the Lord through the faith you're speaking of?

Just trying to harmonize Romans 7 with your Galatians scripture.

Thanks!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yes after the law has brought you to the cross....... then a person lives in the LIBERTY and Power of God's Grace by the Spirit, not the Law.

Absolutely! But this is not a license to sin which is breaking God's Law. If we are breaking God's Law we are sinning against God and not following Him.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

1John 3, 7,
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1John 3, 8,
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 2, 3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2, 4,
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

God bless

 

[Cee]

Loving others is the fruit of knowing we are loved. But love requires freedom or it's not a choice. Without freedom we don't have opportunity to truly love. But our freedom is not for ourselves, but to love one another.

Gal 5:13For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity to indulge your flesh, but through love serve one another.

 

[UnderGrace]

All I can think is that you do not yet understand the Divine influence of Grace in the life of the believer.

You will, if and when, you stop trying to keep the law either for salvation or as a result.

Absolutely! But this is not a license to sin which is breaking God's Law. If we are breaking God's Law we are sinning against God and not following Him.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

1John 3, 7,
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1John 3, 8,
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 2, 3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2, 4,
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

God bless

 

[LoveGodForever]

All I can think is that you do not yet understand the Divine influence of Grace in the life of the believer.You will, if and when, you stop trying to keep the law either for salvation or as a result.

Hi UG

Maybe go back and re-read what I believe in post 19989. I believe God's Word. I do not believe in trying to keep God's Law for salvation. The divine influence of Grace in the life of the believer changes someone that is living a life of sin to live a life freed from sin solely by Faith in the promises of God's Word (John 8:34;36). Salvation is by Faith in God's Word the same way as we receive Jesus we walk with him (faith). (Col 2:6)

Our God is wonderful, loving and powerful God. He is the God of creation and wants to re-create in us a new heart to Love him and those around us (Heb 8:10-12). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law not because we can do it (we can't) but because God does it through us (He saves us). Christ in us (his Spirit) the hope of Glory.(Col 1:27; Rom 8)

God bless.

 

[UnderGrace]

The Gospel is not receiving Jesus or faith in Gods Word.

A person can have faith and not be a believer, it is the object (Jesus) and the event (the cross) where one places faith that saves.

The Gospel is believing and having faith in the completed work of the Cross, a specific event in time.

Which means you change your mind about your own self-effort and dead works and trust in the finished work that Jesus did on your behalf to save you and gift (bring) you eternal life.

Hi UG

Maybe go back and re-read what I believe in post 19989. I believe God's Word. I do not believe in trying to keep God's Law for salvation. The divine influence of Grace in the life of the believer changes someone that is living a life of sin to live a life freed from sin solely by Faith in the promises of God's Word (John 8:34;36). Salvation is by Faith in God's Word the same way as we receive Jesus we walk with him (faith). (Col 2:6)

Our God is wonderful, loving and powerful God. He is the God of creation and wants to re-create in us a new heart to Love him and those around us (Heb 8:10-12). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law not because we can do it (we can't) but because God does it through us (He saves us). Christ in us (his Spirit) the hope of Glory.(Col 1:27; Rom 8)

God bless.

 

[LoveGodForever]

The Gospel is not receiving Jesus or faith in Gods Word.

A person can have faith and not be a believer, it is the object (Jesus) and the event (the cross) where one places faith that saves. The Gospel is believing and having faith in the completed work of the Cross, a specific event in time. Which means you change your mind about your own self-effort and dead works and trust in the finished work that Jesus did on your behalf to save you and bring you eternal life.

Yes the Gospel is all those things you mentioned and more. The Gospel meaning is literally "Good News" the good news is Jesus! (John 3:16) And Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-4). The Word of God is the Gospel and we are to live by every Word of it (Matt 4:4) Life comes by faith and living in God's Words! Our part is having the Faith in God Word to save us from our sins and to walk with him. Our salvation comes from Jesus our Saviour

God bless

 

[Magenta]

Loving others is the fruit of knowing we are loved. But love requires freedom or it's not a choice. Without freedom we don't have opportunity to truly love. But our freedom is not for ourselves, but to love one another.

Gal 5:13For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity to indulge your flesh, but through love serve one another.

. .

 

[Gabriel2020]

your so called wise preacher out right lied to you and you was a fool to believe him. That gift is for the asking from God ,a free gift. whomever ask for it will receive it. that is God's promise. this mean all spirits. human spirits, demon spirits, and holy spirits. of course ,you can't comprehend such wisdom.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Gal 3.23-29 kind of disagrees with you....The Law showed us Christ , until faith came.....

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

HI Meggido, Sorry must of missed this one. No this does not disagree with what I am saying. It agrees with everything I have said earlier. How does this not agree in your mind? These texts are everything I have been saying. Please re-read post 19989

 

[PeterJens]

Repentance from dead works?
HEB 6:1 implies this is a simple teaching and fundamental.
A lot here will say dead works are good works done to justify oneself.

The problem is one of language. Sinful acts are evil acts that lead to death,
not death because of judgement, but because the acts themselves destroy and
create death. So you could call this works of death or dead works.

Now for us it sounds close to good works, so it is easy to say it is good works
gone bad. Now caution must be used because this phrase is used only 2 times
in scripture, and only in Hebrews. Now some have taken this phrase and made it
the gospel, that everything hangs on legalism and grace.

Now you know this is wrong, because nothing else supports this concept, but it
appeals to the flesh by avoiding resolution of sinful behaviour.

There is only one flow in the gospel, Christs love flowing from our hearts out to
others. If you find this hard, let Christs words dwell, abide in you and work them
through all your emotional layers.

 

[garee]

First, I want to say that I'm not proposing we come under the law. Why would we now that we have Jesus? I just wanted to say that so no one misunderstands my reason for the question. Gotta be super extra careful around here!
But:
What about Romans 7 where Paul speak about the law?

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

The law reveals to us like it did to Paul that we're a sinner right?:

Those who do not come under the law of God, the Bible, called the book of the law perish.

We as new creatres are under the perfect law of God, called the “law of faith” The faith of Christ. .That law according to the letter it does reveal we were dead I our trespasses and sin without a living hope according to a living God . The same law in respect to the unseen spirit of the law does the work of converting our soul making His testimony as a understanding to the simple (us) In most cases the law of faith is hidden in the parables revealing the gospel to one and condemning the other according to the letter, Therefore revealing they are without a savior

In that sence the leter of the law and the spirit of the law work together in perfect harmony.Seperating the two can cause confusion

 

[FranC]

The Gospel is not receiving Jesus or faith in Gods Word.

A person can have faith and not be a believer, it is the object (Jesus) and the event (the cross) where one places faith that saves.

The Gospel is believing and having faith in the completed work of the Cross, a specific event in time.

Which means you change your mind about your own self-effort and dead works and trust in the finished work that Jesus did on your behalf to save you and gift (bring) you eternal life.

You could have faith but not be a believer?

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

Also, HOW has the LAW changed?

Are we to follow the Law or not?

What's different?


Yeah. I can't keep away !!

 

[FranC]

Those who do not come under the law of God, the Bible, called the book of the law perish.

We as new creatres are under the perfect law of God, called the “law of faith” The faith of Christ. .That law according to the letter it does reveal we were dead I our trespasses and sin without a living hope according to a living God . The same law in respect to the unseen spirit of the law does the work of converting our soul making His testimony as a understanding to the simple (us) In most cases the law of faith is hidden in the parables revealing the gospel to one and condemning the other according to the letter, Therefore revealing they are without a savior

In that sence the leter of the law and the spirit of the law work together in perfect harmony.Seperating the two can cause confusion

How about this:

OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

in the O.C. we were given some commandments to follow. We thought we could do it but we couldn't.
They were written on stone. They could not be kept.

In the N.C. we are given some commandments to follow. THE SAME ONES. The MORAL commandments, I'd like to clarify.
We thought we could keep them. But can we?

MAYBE...

Because THIS TIME they are written on our heart of flesh. Jesus died to break us from the slavery to satan.
We still have a sinful nature, but we are NO LONGER dominated by it.

We have become slaves to God, to the Holy Spirit who helps us to keep the commandments.

The LAW is still applicable, we still have to keep it.
But now we can. And when we cannot, Jesus covers for us.

 

[gb9]

How about this:

OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

in the O.C. we were given some commandments to follow. We thought we could do it but we couldn't.
They were written on stone. They could not be kept.

In the N.C. we are given some commandments to follow. THE SAME ONES. The MORAL commandments, I'd like to clarify.
We thought we could keep them. But can we?

MAYBE...

Because THIS TIME they are written on our heart of flesh. Jesus died to break us from the slavery to satan.
We still have a sinful nature, but we are NO LONGER dominated by it.

We have become slaves to God, to the Holy Spirit who helps us to keep the commandments.

The LAW is still applicable, we still have to keep it.
But now we can. And when we cannot, Jesus covers for us.

a little fact check- the world was not given the law, only Israel. nothing against the Torah, just a historical fact.

 

[FranC]

a little fact check- the world was not given the law, only Israel. nothing against the Torah, just a historical fact.

yes. I'm familiar with the Covenants.

But, once again, it sounds like we're not SUPPOSED to follow the Law.

WE were also given the Law --- by Jesus.

Mathew 5:17
Jesus said that He did not come to ABOLISH the Law but to fulfill the Law. To make it complete.
(page 916 is getting worn out!)

Could you explain this, please?

If Jesus did not ABOLISH the Law, are we not required to keep it?

For those reading along, of course...

 

[gb9]

Mathew 5 17 can also be translated fulfilled. be truthful fran.