Not By Works

[Ariel82]

I am not sinless, and I am not going to lie and say I am.

You don't have to be sinless to be called a saint...,just have to be washed in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Ariel82]

quite correct here...anger is a work of the flesh, not a sin, unless it leads you to doing something the Holy Spirit told you not to do...

Emotions aren't sinful in themselves. Its the thoughts and actions accompanying them that can become sin. Remind me of a bible verse let me find it.

James 1:15 ►
King James Version
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Darby Bible Translation
then lust, having conceived, gives birth to sin; but sin fully completed brings forth death.

World English Bible
Then the lust, when it has conceived, bears sin; and the sin, when it is full grown, brings forth death.

*****

See our desires themselves are not called sin, but they can bring about sin. I believe "full grown sin" is unrepentant sinful behavior that rejects God's chastenment which brings about spiritual death.

 

[Ariel82]

Meggido....burnt pies, lol that made me laugh.

 

[royalscot]

Yet once again we have a huge argument in CC based on someone's interpretation of a word or verse, when will it eve stop?

in John 16, we are told when the HS comes he will convict (Greek expose, to bring to light,) the world (Kosmos system, ruled by Satan, something a child was f God no longer belongs to) of sin (singular, not plural) he is basically saying

1. The HS will expose to a non believer that they have sinned and fall short of Gods glory
2. He will expose the fact that Gods righteousness is the righteousness we must have (see christs example)
3. He will expose the fact the ruler of this world, their boss and leader, is judged, and the will be judged with him.

the reason he will do this is as a helper, to prepair them to hear the message of then gospel when the church goes into the world to spread it. (If I do not depart, the helper will not come)

how can we relate this to a believer, and say the HS convicts a believer of sin? In this context you can not, the believer is not of the world, the believers sin has already been exposed and they agree (repent) with it, and they are no longer judged.

The exposing of sin is to prepare them to hear the gospel, it is NOT exposing every sin issue or every sin (plural) but the fact they had sinned, and fall short of Gods righteousness, thus headed to judgement)

acts 10, was not about being exposed as a sinner, there would not be an acts 15 in the bible, asking what law to give them, so if they are asking at this point what law do they have, why would you ask ,what law convicts or condemns.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.4Acts 10



if the holy spirit was give because of just believing in jesus christ was the saviour, or words to that affect.

then john 3

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

then it only folly that is blind to the reasoning of bible proof.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I disagree with this somewhat.. I believe that once you're washed by the blood of the Lamb, then you're a child of God. BUT I don't believe that we will become (perfect and sinless) saints UNTIL we get to heaven.. JMO

You don't have to be sinless to be called a saint...,just have to be washed in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[BillG]

I believe to repent of Unforgiveness (which might be the root of a person's anger)means to forgive the person you are mad at, even if they never say they are sorry.
.it means to know that God forgave us even while sinners and we didn't deserve his love or grace but since he gives it to us, we are empowers to give love and grace to others.

Ok I wasn't talking of unforgiveness.

You are right a persons anger can be the root of unforegivness that being the case is that a sin?

ok let's remove anger from the equation and replace it with gossip.

So I asked the question a few posts back and I used anger.
I asked if they repent of anger and then get angry again and then again and so on have they truly repented?

Thats the question I asked an answer to.

So if you could just answer that for me, whether it be anger, gossip and so on.

Trust me I'm not trying to trick you.

I am only asking because unless I have missed posts you are the only one who as responed to my question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If repentance was simply changing the way we think, Jesus did not need to die then did he?

Yes, if he does d not die, then we would Not have to change the way we think now would we? Our fate would besealed

 

[Ariel82]

The Bible calls all born again believers in Christ, LIVING saints.

https://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html

The word “saint” comes from the Greek word hagios, which means “consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." It is almost always used in the plural, “saints.” "…Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem" (Acts 9:13). "Now as Peter was traveling through all those regions, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda" (Acts 9:32). "And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons …“ (Acts 26:10). There is only one instance of the singular use, and that is "Greet every saint in Christ Jesus…" (Philippians 4:21). In Scripture there are 67 uses of the plural “saints” compared to only one use of the singular word “saint.” Even in that one instance, a plurality of saints is in view: “…every saint…” (Philippians 4:21).

The idea of the word “saints” is a group of people set apart for the Lord and His kingdom. There are three references referring to godly character of saints: "that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints …" (Romans 16:2). "For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:12). "But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints" (Ephesians 5:3).

Therefore, scripturally speaking, the “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints.

 

[Meggido]

Yeah we are no longer sinners but sin-forgiven saints learning from our dad how to overcome sin and the world day by day.

Trying to learn everyone's theology can be so confusing.

This was Jesus theology and doctrine and further reveled through the Apostle Paul.

 

[dcontroversal]

The first is dead and hoping for salvation by grace.

.the second has been born again and learning how to become sanctified and live a godly life by the Holy spirit leading.

See....I don't buy it.....both are equally true of a saved child of God......

Written to saved--> where sin abounds grace did much more abound.......

We are SINNERS who have been saved BY GRACE and verb TENSE proves we are continuing to be saved by GRACE/FAITH...

We are also SAINTS (HOLY IN CHIRIST BY BIRTH) and YET we still SIN.....SEE above bolded

 

[Ariel82]

Ok I wasn't talking of unforgiveness.

You are right a persons anger can be the root of unforegivness that being the case is that a sin?

ok let's remove anger from the equation and replace it with gossip.

So I asked the question a few posts back and I used anger.
I asked if they repent of anger and then get angry again and then again and so on have they truly repented?

Thats the question I asked an answer to.

So if you could just answer that for me, whether it be anger, gossip and so on.

Trust me I'm not trying to trick you.

I am only asking because unless I have missed posts you are the only one who as responed to my question

If they keep gossiping over and over again. They would have to do more than say to God "sorry God, I will work at not doing it again."

They would have to have a paradigm shift in their beliefs and look at their heart.

Why do they gossip?

Attention, power, a sense of belonging?

Do they see the harm they cause by gossiping?

The people hurt,the lose of trust and respect of others For them, etc.

When people see the truth of how harmful gossip is and recognise what is and isn't gossip, they can begin training their mind to recognise when they are tempted and tame their tongues instead of indulge in the sin of gossip.

 

[Ariel82]

Well EG can call himself a sinner and I can say the Holy spirit convicts believers of their sin, without being misunderstood then?

 

[BillG]

AMEN.....and still trying to see the difference in the following.......both are equally true....so..........

a sinner saved by grace, but a sin-forgiven saint that still sins...

But hates it when he does and comes before God and admits it.

I would rather come before God and say "I didn't get that right did I? Please help me.

Now why would I do that?

To me it is being hunmble and saying I need you and it's also repentance. I need God.

I would rather be like that than be "Oh God haven't I been good today, aren't I a good person?

Truth is for me when I have walked like him and at times stepped out in real faith I say

"Thank you God for helping me today"

 

[dcontroversal]

Well EG can call himself a sinner and I can say the Holy spirit convicts believers of their sin, without being misunderstood then?

Was the guy who said the following already saved or did it result in his salvation....?

Be merciful unto me a sinner<----in the present tense

 

[dcontroversal]

But hates it when he does and comes before God and admits it.

I would rather come before God and say "I didn't get that right did I? Please help me.

Now why would I do that?

To me it is being hunmble and saying I need you and it's also repentance. I need God.

I would rather be like that than be "Oh God haven't I been good today, aren't I a good person?

Truth is for me when I have walked like him and at times stepped out in real faith I say

"Thank you God for helping me today"

Good for you Bill....have you seen me say that I do not go to God thru Jesus and admit my error and sin and seek forgiveness?

 

[Ariel82]

But hates it when he does and comes before God and admits it.

I would rather come before God and say "I didn't get that right did I? Please help me.

Now why would I do that?

To me it is being hunmble and saying I need you and it's also repentance. I need God.

I would rather be like that than be "Oh God haven't I been good today, aren't I a good person?

Truth is for me when I have walked like him and at times stepped out in real faith I say

"Thank you God for helping me today"

I guess it depends on if you are prone to pride or self doubt.

If your weakness is pride, then God wants you to admit to being a sinner saved by grace.

If your weakness is self doubt and having a hard time trusting that God loves you, then He reminds you that you are a Saint learning to walk with Him.

 

[BillG]

If they keep gossiping over and over again. They would have to do more than say to God "sorry God, I will work at not doing it again."

They would have to have a paradigm shift in their beliefs and look at their heart.

Why do they gossip?

Attention, power, a sense of belonging?

Do they see the harm they cause by gossiping?

The people hurt,the lose of trust and respect of others For them, etc.

When people see the truth of how harmful gossip is and recognise what is and isn't gossip, they can begin training their mind to recognise when they are tempted and tame their tongues instead of indulge in the sin of gossip.

Paradigm shift. Yes I agree with that.

Any chance you can answer my original question?

I gossip today, I gossip tomorrow, I gossip next week. I ask God for help yet at some point I still struggle with gossip.
Have I truly repented?

 

[Ariel82]

Was the guy who said the following already saved or did it result in his salvation....?

Be merciful unto me a sinner<----in the present tense

Neither he was at the temple offer worship to God in accordance with the Old Covenant rules.

He was justified because God was merciful and forgave him because he had a humble and contrite heart,

 

[Ariel82]

Paradigm shift. Yes I agree with that.

Any chance you can answer my original question?

I gossip today, I gossip tomorrow, I gossip next week. I ask God for help yet at some point I still struggle with gossip.
Have I truly repented?

No because your mind has not made that paradigm shift although your heart might be seeking a way to be free of the enslavement caused by your sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Paradigm shift. Yes I agree with that.

Any chance you can answer my original question?

I gossip today, I gossip tomorrow, I gossip next week. I ask God for help yet at some point I still struggle with gossip.
Have I truly repented?

My personal view is we all have a particular struggle that keeps us humbled so as to not be lifted up in pride......my struggle may not be your struggle may not be Ariel's struggle etc........I have areas that I am as strong as I can be in Christ and will NEVER compromise....then I have a few areas that hinder me and cause me to keep my eyes on Christ