The Rapture

[VCO]

EVERYTHING AFTER REVELATION Chapter 4:3, except for the fact that JOHN literally was being shown those things, whether it happened Literally Physically, Literally Spiritually, or Literally by VISION; all of those events that John actually saw, are STILL IN THE FUTURE.


Revelation 4:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things."


My personal beliefs are that I Believe it was a LITERAL EVENT, taking John's human spirit out of His Body, into HEAVEN at a point in time in the FUTURE END TIMES. What happened to John's body and soul while all this was going on? Most Likely in the same manner as Adam, GOD caused a deep sleep to come upon him.



Now for your question on Rev. 6:12. Instead of looking just for verses that sound too STRANGE to be real, it is CRITICAL that we read the entire context prior to trying to understand what it means by what it says.


Revelation 6:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

The way that is worded, it implies this is the Biggest war this Planet has ever seen and effects the whole earth. I highly suspect it LITERALLY IS WWIII, gone full scale Nuclear. Have you ever heard of what Scientists warn us will happen in a full scale Nuclear WAR? Have you not ever heard of the term NUCLEAR WINTER? SO MUCH DIRT and SMOKE will be blown into the upper atmosphere that it will blot out the Sun and moon for months, and perhaps even years.


ADD to that fact that such a War would make the earths crust, VERY UNSTABLE, and that could easily TRIGGER Huge Earthquakes and SUPER VOLCANOES to EXPLODE all over the World. WHICH WILL BLOW EVEN MORE ASH AND DEBRI INTO THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE blotting out the Sun and Moon even LONGER. IT IS TALKING ABOUT A LITERAL EVENT near the END of man ruling over the Earth.

Revelation 6:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,


[video=youtube;go6tmmhE2N0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go6tmmhE2N0[/video]

A Super Volcano is at least a 100 times worse than the Mt. St. Helens Eruption. If ten of them go off within hours or days of each other it would be 1000 times worse. And a full Scale Nuclear War could trigger several of them to go off world wide at approximately the same time. Look at the photos of Mt. St. Helens and try to imagine something a 1000 times worse.

Mount St. Helens: The blast that shaped a region | The Spokesman-Review

P.S. This is what the Sun looks like shining through THICK FOREST FIRE SMOKE:

 

[KJV1611]

EVERYTHING AFTER REVELATION Chapter 4:3, except for the fact that JOHN literally was being shown those things, whether it happened Literally Physically, Literally Spiritually, or Literally by VISION; all of those events that John actually saw, are STILL IN THE FUTURE.


Revelation 4:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things."


My personal beliefs are that I Believe it was a LITERAL EVENT, taking John's human spirit out of His Body, into HEAVEN at a point in time in the FUTURE END TIMES. What happened to John's body and soul while all this was going on? Most Likely in the same manner as Adam, GOD caused a deep sleep to come upon him.



Now for your question on Rev. 6:12. Instead of looking just for verses that sound too STRANGE to be real, it is CRITICAL that we read the entire context prior to trying to understand what it means by what it says.


Revelation 6:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

The way that is worded, it implies this is the Biggest war this Planet has ever seen and effects the whole earth. I highly suspect it LITERALLY IS WWIII, gone full scale Nuclear. Have you ever heard of what Scientists warn us will happen in a full scale Nuclear WAR? Have you not ever heard of the term NUCLEAR WINTER? SO MUCH DIRT and SMOKE will be blown into the upper atmosphere that it will blot out the Sun and moon for months, and perhaps even years.


ADD to that fact that such a War would make the earths crust, VERY UNSTABLE, and that could easily TRIGGER Huge Earthquakes and SUPER VOLCANOES to EXPLODE all over the World. WHICH WILL BLOW EVEN MORE ASH AND DEBRI INTO THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE blotting out the Sun and Moon even LONGER. IT IS TALKING ABOUT A LITERAL EVENT near the END of man ruling over the Earth.

Revelation 6:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,



A Super Volcano is at least a 100 times worse than the Mt. St. Helens Eruption. If ten of them go off within hours or days of each other it would be 1000 times worse. And a full Scale Nuclear War could trigger several of them to go off world wide at approximately the same time. Look at the photos of Mt. St. Helens and try to imagine something a 1000 times worse.

Mount St. Helens: The blast that shaped a region | The Spokesman-Review

In your view, when does the sun go dark and the moon turn to blood... does this happen during the seven year tribulation?

 

[Bladerunner]

Hey Bladerunner,

Because by doing so, it allows them to apply any interpretation that supports their position. By spiritualizing you can make God's word mean whatever you want. For example, their claim that the number 144,000 is an unknown number, even though it is made known to them. Or the thousand years that Satan is bound and that Christ reigns, as not being a literal thousand years, even though it is proclaimed "a thousand years" six times.

It is the fulfillment of the following:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

It is the signs of the end my friend.

Yeah, I know... It is sad as that when ever someone truly wants to ask a legitimate question, they cannot hear the answers for the trash these fellows put out.... It almost sounds like an Atheist forum I was once in. While it was a big mistake, no one there really cared one way or the other about Jesus Christ, it did give me the ability to recognize them when they get to talking all that ???????

The thought crossed my mind to find another forum but it will be the same as this one is getting. Who knows, it might get better. Like you, it is the time where the scoffers are running wild.

One think I know for sure I am not criticizing the mods for doing nothing,,,Why because they are within the rules and like it or not we are on the side where fair play is dictated. I thank them for that.

Hope you have/had a Blessed Day
Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

It was sarcasm, im on your side relax.

WHy does this not surprise me,,,,,ON whose side.....I prefer to be on the side of Jesus but it is apparent you are not...... Good luck because the Holy Spirit whether he is in-dwelled within you or NOT, hears everything you say. You just may have lost the best side you could have but you haad rather have another.......

 

[KJV1611]

Yeah, I know... It is sad as that when ever someone truly wants to ask a legitimate question, they cannot hear the answers for the trash these fellows put out.... It almost sounds like an Atheist forum I was once in. While it was a big mistake, no one there really cared one way or the other about Jesus Christ, it did give me the ability to recognize them when they get to talking all that ???????

The thought crossed my mind to find another forum but it will be the same as this one is getting. Who knows, it might get better. Like you, it is the time where the scoffers are running wild.

One think I know for sure I am not criticizing the mods for doing nothing,,,Why because they are within the rules and like it or not we are on the side where fair play is dictated. I thank them for that.

Hope you have/had a Blessed Day
Blade

When do you think the sun will be darkened and the moon turned to blood?

 

[KJV1611]

WHy does this not surprise me,,,,,ON whose side.....I prefer to be on the side of Jesus but it is apparent you are not...... Good luck because the Holy Spirit whether he is in-dwelled within you or NOT, hears everything you say. You just may have lost the best side you could have but you haad rather have another.......

What exactly do you mean by the bolded part above?

 

[Bladerunner]

Are the eschatology views of somebody related to their salvation Y/N?

What is my view? Of the three options I know of it would be Amillennial. It does the most justice to the words of Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament.

Oh, What is the Third option, Atheist? If you will,,, tells us how being an Amillennial justifies the Word of GOD? Do you only consider the NT and NOT the OT. IF so WHY?

 

[Bladerunner]

I think the case can be made from Scripture alone that world does not always indicate all of the planet earth and that all does not always mean every individual on the planet earth.
The Apostles made the connection between Zechariah 12 and them looking on Him whom they have pierced let us trust them for they were guided by the Spirit of God.

Oh,, How can you make that case....How many times does the word "world" used in the Bible. What context is it used in...What is it's Hebrew meaning and on and on and on.......


I think you are listening to the wrong people who will lead you down a road to W........ell. Simple as that. If you already are allegorizing the Bible where its interpretation is at your command. Anything interpretation at all as long as it make you feel good about yourself. But it will not get you into heaven. OOPs,,, Can you handle the truth?

 

[Bladerunner]

They WILL be the FIRST MORTAL JEWS that set foot in the 1000 year KINGDOM to repopulate ISRAEL with JESUS RULING OVER the world, from THE THRONE of DAVID, AND their descendants are the rest of the Harvest. They are the Believing Jews that BELIEVE THE PROPHECY IN ZECHARIAH 14, who wait in the eastern part of Jerusalem for the Messiah to create the Escape Route. The other half of the remaining Jewish inhabitants, are the unbelieving Jews that try to flee Jerusalem to exile, with no guarantee they can make it past the INVADING ARMIES. Prior to that, 7000 of the inhabitants in Jerusalem were killed in a massive earthquake after the TWO WITNESSES were resurrected.

The latest Census puts the population of Jerusalem, at 804,400. That most likely means there are over 500,000 casualties in Jerusalem due to the attacking Armies of the World, The Hail Stones, and the other Plagues of GOD's Wrath.

VCO..... If you are speaking of the 144,000, they have been redeemed into Heaven and will not be as mortal man on earth during the Millinnieum. Check out Chapter 14. Revelation.

 

[Bladerunner]

Hello Ahwatukee. I am not sure if you have looked into what the Amillennialist position is.
I am no expert on it by no means but if its good enough for great men of the faith such as Luther, Origen, Calvin, Augustine and countless others its also good enough for me.
I can see it in the Scriptures as Jesus is ruling His ekklesia right now seated on the right side of the Father. If I remember rightly in Daniel 7 there is a mention of the ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to the Father and He started to reign and eternal kingdom was given to Him at the ascension.

I believe Jesus is Lord of the universe He does not need to wait to establish an earthly kingdom, on the contrary He will come again to resurrect the dead and destroy the current creation and create a New Heaven and New Earth.
This is what the blessed Apostle Peter was also waiting when he said that we are looking for the New Heaven and the New Earth according to His promise.
I do not wish to start off an argument here in the beginning I was only stating my own position, God bless you Ahwatukee and the others reading this also.

Do you hear yourself,,,<REALLY>.....come on man.......it is your soul you are talking about and your are putting it in someone else;s hand........Now I have heard it all.

 

[Bladerunner]

In Revelations 1; 19 ; He told John to ; Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, meaning at that time frame, and the things which shall be thereafter. Some of this was going on at the time John saw the vision., and thereafter. How long is thereafter?

To make a educated guess, a little over 2000 years.

 

[Bladerunner]

thereafter begins tomorrow

WAIT....thought you said John was a spirit....how could he write anything. And where did you get that definition that "thereafter" equals Tomorrow?????

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Bogadile,

Hello Ahwatukee. I am not sure if you have looked into what the Amillennialist position is.
I am no expert on it by no means but if its good enough for great men of the faith such as Luther, Origen, Calvin, Augustine and countless others its also good enough for me.

I am the exact opposite. I don't put my eternal salvation in the hands of what men say or write. I have always studied the scriptures for myself, so that I know what God's word says for myself and not what somebody tells me. When I make a claim, I don't attach a YouTube video as my proof, but I provide scripture from what I've studied. So no! What Luther, Origen, Calvin, Augustine and others proclaim is not good enough for me.

I can see it in the Scriptures as Jesus is ruling His ekklesia right now seated on the right side of the Father.

If you think that Jesus is ruling the world with a rod of iron right now, you have a pretty weak idea of what it means for Him to rule. You think that Jesus is ruling right now, with all of the murders, rapes, human trafficking, the attacks on Israel, car bombs, Isis and Islam events of terror, etc., etc.? Man! If Jesus is ruling from heaven right now, I'd hate to see what it would be like when He's not ruling with a rod of iron. By the way, the scripture does not say that Jesus will rule the Ekklesia with a rod of iron, but He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. You already don't have your information correct.

The truth of the matter is that, we have the characteristics of the millennial period in scripture and none of them are currently existing.

I believe Jesus is Lord of the universe He does not need to wait to establish an earthly kingdom, on the contrary He will come again to resurrect the dead and destroy the current creation and create a New Heaven and New Earth.

That's not your call! The fact is that scripture states that Jesus will return to the earth to end that age physically and visually and will literally be here on the earth and the church, the 144,000 and the great tribulation saints who will have received their immortal and glorified bodies, will be ruling with him. That is scriptural fact. A summary of the chronological order is as follows:

Gathering of the church

Seven years of God's wrath

The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom

Great white throne judgment of all the unrighteous dead

New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem.

Eternity ......................................................................................>

 

[Ahwatukee]

In Revelations 1; 19 ; He told John to ; Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, meaning at that time frame, and the things which shall be thereafter. Some of this was going on at the time John saw the vision., and thereafter. How long is thereafter?

Good evening Gabriel,

What you have seen: Everything that John wrote of from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19

What is now: The letters to the churches, which represent the entire church period

What will take place later: The events that take place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period

Rev.4:1 is prophetically representing the church being caught up, when John the hears the voice that sounds like a trumpet saying "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this" i.e. after the church period.

In further support of this, you will not see the word church again throughout the entire narrative of God's wrath. Anytime a believer is referred to beginning at Rev.5:8 is referring to "saints" which are the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. The church is in view in Rev.19:6-8 referred to as the bride receiving her wedding clothing at the wedding of the Lamb, which demonstrates that she is already in heaven. The next time the word church is seen is in Rev.22:16 which is outside of the narrative.

Likewise, throughout chapters 1 thru the end of chapter 3, the word church is used 18 times. And within those same chapters, the word "Hagios" translated "Saints" is never used. This is not a coincidence, but is by design.

That the church is gathered in Rev.4:1 demonstrates that the church will be removed prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates the wrath of God.

 

[VCO]

In your view, when does the sun go dark and the moon turn to blood... does this happen during the seven year tribulation?

I couldn't find a picture of the moon looking blood red in forest fire smoke. But it does when the smoke is the right thickness. In that picture of the sun shining through forest fire smoke, even it looks red. In my opion the Great Tribulation is the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel and her enemies that Antichrist Negotiates, that EVENT WILL BE ON EVERY NEWS CHANNEL. AND Antichrist's Reign is NUMBERED exactly to those SEVEN YEARS. The first three and a half, years is peaceful, but a TRICK to get Israel to lower their guard. In the Radical Islamic beliefs, you are a Hero for Allah, if you can deceive an enemy into lowering their Guard so that you can DESTROY THEM. THAT IS A FACT THAT YOU CERTAINLY CAN LOOK UP.

 

[Apostol2013]

someone along the way with a lack of understanding of the knowledge of the scriptures made in analogy of what they thought was to come as much as people want to believe in the rapture all the there is is what scripture tells us just like in Matthew 24 it says immediately after the Great Tribulation and then it talks about the coming of the son of man well when he sells send his angels to the four corners of the Earth to gather up all the saints in the Book of Daniel it speaks of this Resurrection specifically chapter 12 where it says that the Angel Michael shall come forth holding the Book of Life and that the juste will be raised from the Dust that are in their graves whic÷h goes along with 2nd Thessalonians we got to read the scriptures for what they really are not making up our own understanding but look at it as it is written to some he has given us the spirit of discernment some call it the gift of discernment which comes from one spirit which is the holiest of holies the holy spirit of God and all knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit and understanding can only be opened up through the Holy Spirit and part of what understanding how the Holy Spirit operates is through the holy word for the LORD YESHUA had said that the word is spirit

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Apostle2013,

in Matthew 24 it says immediately after the Great Tribulation and then it talks about the coming of the son of man well when he sells send his angels to the four corners of the Earth to gather up all the saints

This is a common error among expositors. When the Lord sends out his angels to the four corners of the earth as described in Matt.24:30-31, it is referring to gathering them from the entire earth. The angels are not gathering the resurrected here, for this is taking place at the end of the age. The church cannot be viewed as being gathered in Matt.24:31 and that because it would mean that the living church would have gone through all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which we are not appointed to suffer. If that was the case, it certainly would not be a blessed hope, nor could we comfort one another with those words.

Furthermore, the angels will be gathering living people still in their mortal bodies, those who will have made it through the entire wrath of God. According to the parable of the weeds and the wheat, the angels will first gather the weeds/wicked (one taken) and will take them to Armageddon where they will be killed with that double-edged sword which is figurative representing the word of God. Then all of those birds that the angel will have gathered in Rev.19:17-18 will gorge themselves on their flesh, which is what Jesus meant by "wherever a dead body is, there with the vultures gather."

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = Gathering of the church

Matthew 24:30-31 = Christ's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kindom

These are two different events

 

[VCO]

VCO..... If you are speaking of the 144,000, they have been redeemed into Heaven and will not be as mortal man on earth during the Millinnieum. Check out Chapter 14. Revelation.

It says redeemed from the earth, NOT REDEEMED INTO HEAVEN. That Heavenly song is being sung in Heaven and here on earth by the 144,000. They are still one earth, which is validated by the fact that NO ONE ELSE ON EARTH COULD LEARN THE SONG.

The mighty voice was not mere noise; it had a musical quality, like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. The reference to harpists and harps suggests that the voice expressed not thunderous judgment but joy. Harps are frequently associated in the Old Testament with joyous praise (cf. 2 Sam. 6:5; 1 Chron. 13:8; 15:16, 28; 2 Chron. 5:12-13; Neh. 12:27; Pss. 33:2; 71:22; 144:9; 150:3). Heaven will resound with loud praise when the Lord Jesus Christ returns in triumph to establish His earthly kingdom.

The new song sung in heaven before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders is the song of redemption (cf. Pss. 33:1-3; 40:3; 96:1-2; 98:1-2; 144:9-10; 149:1; Isa. 42:10). The angels will join the Old Testament saints, the raptured church, and the redeemed Tribulation martyrs in praising God for salvation. While angels do not experience redemption, they do rejoice because of it (Luke 15:10). All heaven will overflow with praise because God's redemptive work culminating in the return of Christ is accomplished.

Heaven's praise overflows to earth, where the new song is taken up. John notes that no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. The unregenerate cannot, of course, sing the song of redemption; it is only for the redeemed, those purchased by Christ's blood. Why the song is restricted to the one hundred and forty-four thousand is not stated, but Henry Morris has offered a possible explanation:

Although the words of the song of the 144,000 are not recorded, it surely dwells in part at least on the great truth that they had been "redeemed from the earth." Although in one sense all saved people have been redeemed from the earth, these could know the meaning of such a theme in a more profound way than others. They had been saved after the rapture, at that time in history when man's greatest persecutions and God's greatest judgments were on the earth. It was at such a time that they, like Noah (Genesis 6:8), had "found grace in the eyes of the Lord" and had been separated from "all that dwell upon the earth" (Revelation 13:8). Not only had they been redeemed spiritually but, precursively as it were, they had been redeemed from the very curse on the earth (Genesis 3:17), being protected from pain and death by the guarding seal. (The Revelation Record [Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale, 1983], 260)
​

The 144,000 will join with the heavenly chorus in praising God for His marvelous work of redemption. Some of the lyrics of their song may be found in 15:3-4:

And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,
"Great and marvelous are Your works,
O Lord God, the Almighty;
Righteous and true are Your ways,
King of the nations!
Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy;
For all the nations will come and worship before You,
For Your righteous acts have been revealed."
​

A mark of triumphant Christian living in any era is constant praise to God. The 144,000 no doubt praised God throughout their time of trial and persecution. Because their ordeal is over and they are victorious, they will burst forth in praise to God for their deliverance. Joy is the proper outflow of a heart that trusts in God's sovereign power (Phil. 3:1; 4:4; 1 Thess. 5:16; James 1:2; 1 Pet. 4:13).
[h=2]Purity[/h]

These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. (14:4a)​

The worship of Antichrist during the Tribulation will be unspeakably vile and perverse. As it did in the fertility cults of ancient times, sexual sin will apparently run rampant. Even in the current grossly immoral day, we can hardly imagine what the deviant sexual perversion of the Tribulation will be like. With all divine restraint removed (2 Thess. 2:6-7) and the unbelieving world judgmentally abandoned by God (cf. Rom. 1:24, 26, 28), sin will be released like a flood, inundating the world. And fanning the hellish flames of wickedness will be Satan and his demon hosts—both those cast from heaven with him (12:9) and those vile demons newly released from imprisonment (9:1-11, 14-19).
In the midst of the darkness of the Tribulation period, the 144,000 will shine forth like beacons of purity. Despite the rampant sexual sin that surrounds them, they will not be defiled with women, but will keep themselves chaste. That the specific sin that they will avoid involves women indicates that sexual purity is in view here, not detachment from the corrupt world system. That the 144,000 will be separate from Antichrist's empire has already been made clear; they bear God's mark, not the beast's (7:3-4). Nor does this passage teach that they will all be unmarried, since sex within marriage does not defile anyone (Heb. 13:4). What it means is that they will stand apart from the sin of their culture; 144,000 morally pure preachers amid the defilement that surrounds them.

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Revelation 12-22.

The writing style John is uses is like a newpaper reporter. Where he gives you the Highlights up front, and then goes back as many times as he needs to fill in Details.

 

[J7]

Matthew 24 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is the Church. It is no-one else. It can be no-one else.

Anybody who says it is not the Church, ('because that does not fit in with my hopelessly convoluted theology'), needs....I don't know,
a lobotomy probably.

 

[tanakh]

I am glad you finally GOT OFF BLAMING DARBY. But I can trace it back to quotes from the 200's.

HERE IS THE PAPER TRAIL GOD LEFT YOU:


Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “So always be ready, because you don’t know
the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


That tells me 50% of the people who call themselves Christians, do not get an INVITE to the Wedding in Heaven, because they failed to be ready. Therefore it has to be before the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel and her enemies is signed, Dan. 9:27, because THAT EVENT WILL BE HEADLINE NEWS ON EVERY TV CHANNEL. AND then everyone can count to see which DAY is exactly 3.5 Years into that Peace Treaty, and EXACTLY which DAY is the last DAY of that Seven Years.


Revelation 19:9 (NCV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And the angel said to me, “Write this: Happy are those who have been invited to the wedding meal of the Lamb!“ And the angel said, “These are the true words of God.“



My guess is the 50% who did not go to Wedding in Mat. 25, are the SAME 50% who did not get an INVITE.

I got mine, how about you?

Firstly I havnt ''Got off blaming Darby'' Its unfortunate that your theological position regarding this subject together with Scottish teenager Margaret McDonald, the Rev Edward Irving and Darby stems from the works of two Jesuit Priests namely Francisco Ribera with his commentary on Revelation published in 1590 and Manuel de Lacunzas The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty published in 1811 under the Pseudonym of Juan Josefat Ben Ezra translated by Edward Irving and published in English in 1827. With regard to the Bridesmaid parable I have never doubted the second coming or the rapture only the position/timing given it by Pre Tribbers who seem to believe that a persons salvation depends on being one.