Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
I am saying God was not at one with Abraham until he offered up Isaac. The word know in Gen 22.12 is not in the tense you are trying to fit into to support your argument. The Hebrew word for Know here is the same as man having intimacy with his wife or becoming one with her...

Until you are one with Jesus Christ you are just easy believing your way right into hell...and while you have a promise, there is no receiving the blessings of the inheritance until God is at one with you and you are at one with God...this is called Covenant relationship and illustrated perfectly through Abraham
I would describe what you call "being one with God" as Abraham was "maturity in Christ"


Would it be the same concept?
 
May 12, 2017
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As usual, I'm answering for those reading along.
YOU probably already know.


Forgiveness is when someone does you a wrong. You might be uspet at first and you might not.
The relationship is broken. Then one day you decide that you need to forgive that person of whatever they did.
So you do forgive them.

That is forgiveness. It's something you do. But the relationship is still broken.

When the other person ALSO decides to forgive you, and tell you, and you shake hands and make up...
THAT is reconcilitation. Reconciliation repairs he broken relationship and brings it back to the way it was orignally.
How hard is this for some people...It stuns me how hard people fight against covenant relationship....
 
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Ariel82

Guest
As usual, I'm answering for those reading along.
YOU probably already know.


Forgiveness is when someone does you a wrong. You might be uspet at first and you might not.
The relationship is broken. Then one day you decide that you need to forgive that person of whatever they did.
So you do forgive them.

That is forgiveness. It's something you do. But the relationship is still broken.

When the other person ALSO decides to forgive you, and tells you, and you shake hands and make up...
THAT is reconcilitation. Reconciliation repairs the broken relationship and restores it to the way it was originally.
If that is what he means then his statement should read..

"
IN the new covenant atonement is reconciliation...and that is not JUST forgiveness"
 
May 12, 2017
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Because I haven't found any.
maybe it would be easier if you first started looking for verses that showed Jesus was in hell....he went there so you would not have to..you guys want to say its all Christ, but stop short of the complete truth...

If Jesus paid it all for us, which he did, it also means , as the bible shows us, he had to go to hell so you would not have to go,

He became SIN so you could become RIGHTEOUS....
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Ephesians 5:1-2, we are to "be imitators…and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God,
 
May 12, 2017
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I would describe what you call "being one with God" as Abraham was "maturity in Christ"


Would it be the same concept?
Nope, think about relationship, deep relationship...

I know spiritually mature people that are not one with Jesus.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
maybe it would be easier if you first started looking for verses that showed Jesus was in hell....he went there so you would not have to..you guys want to say its all Christ, but stop short of the complete truth...

If Jesus paid it all for us, which he did, it also means , as the bible shows us, he had to go to hell so you would not have to go,

He became SIN so you could become RIGHTEOUS....
Revelation 20
13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Nope, think about relationship, deep relationship...

I know spiritually mature people that are not one with Jesus.
Interesting.,,,how then do you know people are "one with Jesus"?


I know people who are spiritually mature, learned to be a part of the Body of Christ, in an intimate personal relationship with Jesus. How can one be mature without a personal relationship with Jesus?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
How hard is this for some people...It stuns me how hard people fight against covenant relationship....
No one fights against covenant relationship. What is being discussed is the terms of the covenant and between Whom the covenant was established,

Wait a sec...,are you implying we have some weird spiritual "intimacy" with God like physical relations between a man and wife?

I had to re-read your statement and trying to puzzle out your meaning.

The word know in Gen 22.12 is not in the tense you are trying to fit into to support your argument. The Hebrew word for Know here is the same as man having intimacy with his wife or becoming one with her...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
In the Mosaic law Atonement is the covering or pacifying of sin...not the forgiveness of...

IN the new covenant atonement is reconciliation...and that is not forgiveness

I will just take hebrews at face Value, Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. The atoning sacrifice was for forgiveness of sin,

The lamb made atonement, Your right, In the OT it was passed over or covered, That is because th eblood of bulls and goats could never take away sin.

Jesus, the lamb of God took away the sin of the world. Your sins are still covered, It is because they are covered, or redeemed, that you are forgiven.

Abrahams sins was covered by Jesus blood, Just likes your and mine is (if your saved)


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG, you love to keep people in the kiddie pool with you so you can splash them in the face...I was in the deep end touching bottom and back again 3x with you and it went right over your head...I am leaving you and kiddie pool alone now, because you obviously cannot go deep....peace bro...

Wow dude,

So you think you are all that? You did not do anything but give me your opinion. What, I was supposed to throw everything down and believe you no matter what?

You talk about kiddie pool, Yet I asked you the same question numerous times, And you refused to answer it, And you want to call me a child?



News flash, this is a discussion forum, We will nto always agree, Just because someone does not agree does not mean they are a child.

And when people ask questions, And you do not answer, it makes it appear as you have something to hide.

As someone once said, Silence can be deafening, because it speaks very loud and clear.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I know many people who are think they have imputed righteousness that are not one with Jesus....
I can agree with this, But we are not talking about what people think.

we are told not only in genesis, but by paul that abraham was made one with Christ, He had faith in God, and God reckoned him righteous.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Ephesians 4 v 31
31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Covering of SIN is not overlooking it....
Rom 3:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[SUP][h][/SUP] who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
As usual, I'm answering for those reading along.
YOU probably already know.


Forgiveness is when someone does you a wrong. You might be uspet at first and you might not.
The relationship is broken. Then one day you decide that you need to forgive that person of whatever they did.
So you do forgive them.

That is forgiveness. It's something you do. But the relationship is still broken.

When the other person ALSO decides to forgive you, and tells you, and you shake hands and make up...
THAT is reconcilitation. Reconciliation repairs the broken relationship and restores it to the way it was originally.
Did you reconcile with God or did God reconcile you?

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nope, think about relationship, deep relationship...

I know spiritually mature people that are not one with Jesus.

How can they be spiritually mature and not united with Christ?

This makes no sense.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ephesians 4 v 31
31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
God also said to forgive 70 X 7, and he did not make the brother asking forgiveness as one of the requirements of forgiveness.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Heb 11 says Abraham was not fully justified until he offered up ISaac.

God himself did not know his faith until he offered up Isaac...Gen 12.22

I couldn't see in Heb. 11 where it said that Abraham was not "fully justified" ( not sure where that term comes from ) until he offered up Isaac.

I see that it was in Gen. 22:10 that Abraham offered up Isaac and I still don't see this "fully justified" thing.

Genesis 22:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."

I can see how important it is to listen to the "now" word of the Lord. Imagine if Abraham said "God said to sacrifice Isaac on the altar and I'm doing it. To obey is better than sacrifice. It is God's word and it is to be obeyed."

I bet Isaac was happy his father listened to the "now" word of God concerning him....selah.



As far as God Himself declaring Abraham being righteous - it was at least 15 years before Isaac was put on the altar.

Genesis 15:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

[SUP]6 [/SUP]
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

This is exactly what happens to us when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and we receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17

As I said before - all true faith will have a corresponding action of some sort to the word of the Lord.

 
Apr 30, 2016
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Did you reconcile with God or did God reconcile you?

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
God first sought us and gave us a way of reconciliation.
Genesis 3:15

But now, when we sin, we do need to ask forgiveness and then forge ahead.