The Rapture
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WOW you are full of false assumptions. ALL who have the Faith of Abraham are saved.
Abraham believed GOD and trusted HE would send a Messiah to redeem him from his sins.
WHY do you think I refuse to call it the Rapture most of the time. I PREFER TO CALL IT "THE CALLING OUT OF BRIDE TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB", which is literally what it is. That is because of ALL the false teachings about what we Teach about the RAPTURE being spread around by Post-Tribbers like wild fire, and CULTS meaning something else all together by that term, {like you just presented, linking it to SALVATION}; I perfer to distance myself from the expression "RAPTURE". THOSE WHO ARE READY {filled with the Holy Spirit} when He Comes are those WHO have an Invite to the WEDDING. Those who are not Ready when He calls out HIS Bride get to go through the Great Tribulation, and whether or not they are SAVED will depend on whether or not their Faith is strong enough so that they can REFUSE the Mark of the Beast till death. I remind you what I said earlier, "Can you watch them behead your two year old boy, and baby daughter; and NOT TAKE THE MARK TO SPARE THEIR LIVES?"
No, I proved to you before that the opinion that the Calling Out of the Bride is a new Teaching, is purely a LIE, from the Post-Trib side of the fence:
The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History
Did they affect the whole world here? Twilight zone, give me a break. Please study a little, maybe you'll learn something. Three OT prophets, all using the same imagery for divine destruction and you don't recognize it.
Isa 13: Destruction of Babylon:
The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
2 “Lift up a banner on the high mountain,
Raise your voice to them;
Wave your hand, that they may enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded My sanctified ones;
I have also called My mighty ones for My anger—
Those who rejoice in My exaltation.”
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains,
Like that of many people!
A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together!
The Lord of hosts musters
The army for battle.
5 They come from a far country,
From the end of heaven—
The Lord and His weapons of indignation,
To destroy the whole land.
6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is at hand!
It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore all hands will be limp,
Every man’s heart will melt,
8 And they will be afraid.
Pangs and sorrows will take hold of them;
They will be in pain as a woman in childbirth;
They will be amazed at one another;
Their faces will be like flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord comes,
Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger,
To lay the land desolate;
And He will destroy its sinners from it.
10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth,
And the moon will not cause its light to shine.
or here?
Eze 32: Destruction of Egypt:
And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him:
‘You are like a young lion among the nations,
And you are like a monster in the seas,
Bursting forth in your rivers,
Troubling the waters with your feet,
And fouling their rivers.
3 ‘Thus says the Lord God:
“I will therefore spread My net over you with a company of many people,
And they will draw you up in My net.
4 Then I will leave you on the land;
I will cast you out on the open fields,
And cause to settle on you all the birds of the heavens.
And with you I will fill the beasts of the whole earth.
5 I will lay your flesh on the mountains,
And fill the valleys with your carcass.
6 “I will also water the land with the flow of your blood,
Even to the mountains;
And the riverbeds will be full of you.
7 When I put out your light,
I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you,
And bring darkness upon your land,”
Says the Lord God.
9 ‘I will also trouble the hearts of many peoples, when I bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries which you have not known. 10 Yes, I will make many peoples astonished at you, and their kings shall be horribly afraid of you when I brandish My sword before them; and they shall tremble every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of your fall.
or Here???
Joel 2 Destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD):
30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
You really need to start recognizing OT language and symbolism for divine judgment. It's always the same and matches Jesus' account in Mat 24.
You better tell the Psalmist that he doesn't know what the heck he is talking about because according to you, the heavens and earth are going to burn up. While you are at it, you might want to tell Solomon the same thing. For being the wisest man EVER, he obviously has a lot to learn from you because he's under the same impression. But what do they know? They must be as crazy as me. VCO has spoken. Hail to VCO, a man wiser than Solomon.
Psalm 78:69
And He built His sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which He has established forever.
Psalm 104:5
You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever
Ecclesiastes 1:4
One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.
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Okay Cherry Picker, learn to read the entire context before you declare it History instead Future Prophecy:
Isaiah 13:1-22 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "Lift up a banner on the high mountain, Raise your voice to them; Wave your hand, that they may enter the gates of the nobles.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I have commanded My sanctified ones; I have also called My mighty ones for My anger-- Those who rejoice in My exaltation."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts musters The army for battle.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The LORD and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore all hands will be limp, Every man's heart will melt,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And they will be afraid. Pangs and sorrows will take hold of them; They will be in pain as a woman in childbirth; They will be amazed at one another; Their faces will be like flames.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the LORD of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] It shall be as the hunted gazelle, And as a sheep that no man takes up; Every man will turn to his own people, And everyone will flee to his own land.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who is found will be thrust through, And everyone who is captured will fall by the sword.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Their children also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Also their bows will dash the young men to pieces, And they will have no pity on the fruit of the womb; Their eye will not spare children.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, The beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] It will never be inhabited, Nor will it be settled from generation to generation; Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there, Nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there.
{It will become a NUCLEAR WASTELAND.}
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But wild beasts of the desert will lie there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches will dwell there, And wild goats will caper there.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The hyenas will howl in their citadels, And jackals in their pleasant palaces. Her time is near to come, And her days will not be prolonged."
Isaiah 13:1-22 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "Lift up a banner on the high mountain, Raise your voice to them; Wave your hand, that they may enter the gates of the nobles.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I have commanded My sanctified ones; I have also called My mighty ones for My anger-- Those who rejoice in My exaltation."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts musters The army for battle.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The LORD and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore all hands will be limp, Every man's heart will melt,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And they will be afraid. Pangs and sorrows will take hold of them; They will be in pain as a woman in childbirth; They will be amazed at one another; Their faces will be like flames.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the LORD of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] It shall be as the hunted gazelle, And as a sheep that no man takes up; Every man will turn to his own people, And everyone will flee to his own land.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who is found will be thrust through, And everyone who is captured will fall by the sword.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Their children also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Also their bows will dash the young men to pieces, And they will have no pity on the fruit of the womb; Their eye will not spare children.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, The beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] It will never be inhabited, Nor will it be settled from generation to generation; Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there, Nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there.
{It will become a NUCLEAR WASTELAND.}
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But wild beasts of the desert will lie there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches will dwell there, And wild goats will caper there.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The hyenas will howl in their citadels, And jackals in their pleasant palaces. Her time is near to come, And her days will not be prolonged."
In Mal. 3:6 it says:
Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Therefore if we can find exactly HOW GOD SAVED ONE MAN, we will know how GOD SAVES ALL WHO ARE SAVED.
Romans 4:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
When Abraham experienced GOD providing a lamb, to use as a Sacrifice for his present sins, he understood and BELIEVED GOD WOULD have to SEND A MESSIAH to redeem Believers of all sin.
O.T. Saints believed GOD would send a Messiah to redeem us from all our sins.
N.T. Saints believed GOD did send a Messiah to redeem us from all our sins.
IT IS THE SAME SAVING FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.
Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Therefore if we can find exactly HOW GOD SAVED ONE MAN, we will know how GOD SAVES ALL WHO ARE SAVED.
Romans 4:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
When Abraham experienced GOD providing a lamb, to use as a Sacrifice for his present sins, he understood and BELIEVED GOD WOULD have to SEND A MESSIAH to redeem Believers of all sin.
O.T. Saints believed GOD would send a Messiah to redeem us from all our sins.
N.T. Saints believed GOD did send a Messiah to redeem us from all our sins.
IT IS THE SAME SAVING FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.
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In 1590 Francisco Ribera a Jesuit Priest and confessor to Teresa of Avila was commissioned by the Pope to write a commentary on Revelation to counteract the Reformers claim that he was the Antichrist. Ribera achieved this by
by placing all the events of Revelation apart from the first few chapters far into the future. In doing so he put the
Pope in the clear. Its ironic that the main points in his commentary was taken as ''Gospel'' by Dispensationalists
In 1811 another Catholic Priest going by the pen name of Juan Josafat Ben Ezra wrote a book called the coming of the Messiah in glory and majesty. This was translated into English in 1827 by Edward Irvin. It was this that led John Darby
and his Brethren cult to adopt the Pre Trib position and other ideas. They were further spread by Cyrus Schofield and
his Notes.
by placing all the events of Revelation apart from the first few chapters far into the future. In doing so he put the
Pope in the clear. Its ironic that the main points in his commentary was taken as ''Gospel'' by Dispensationalists
In 1811 another Catholic Priest going by the pen name of Juan Josafat Ben Ezra wrote a book called the coming of the Messiah in glory and majesty. This was translated into English in 1827 by Edward Irvin. It was this that led John Darby
and his Brethren cult to adopt the Pre Trib position and other ideas. They were further spread by Cyrus Schofield and
his Notes.
honestly i have read a lot of church fathers and they taught many different things it seems like our disagreements and different points of view are nothing new but have been amongst us from day one...........
you see some church fathers saying matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 70ad but you also see some people in the 400s say its future............ the only thing that seems to be pretty unanimous is that everyone is looking for the antichrist as future since it says in thessalonians the ac will be destroyed when Jesus returns.............
you see some church fathers saying matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 70ad but you also see some people in the 400s say its future............ the only thing that seems to be pretty unanimous is that everyone is looking for the antichrist as future since it says in thessalonians the ac will be destroyed when Jesus returns.............
I would put more credibility on the earlier church fathers who were closer to the 70 AD event. Perhaps the earliest was Hegesippus who was right after the apostles and Eusebius who was 200 years later but at least he was from Israel. The further away, the more people started straying from the truth.
Please show me in the Thessalonians where the "antichrist" is mentioned. If you are referring to the Man of Sin, he also was ancient history. As I've been saying Christ returned ~ 70 AD. It was His parousia or presence return where He came in wrath against Jerusalem.
Please show me in the Thessalonians where the "antichrist" is mentioned. If you are referring to the Man of Sin, he also was ancient history. As I've been saying Christ returned ~ 70 AD. It was His parousia or presence return where He came in wrath against Jerusalem.
PlainWord you are in another dimension dude. What are you talking about?
Jesus returned in 70A.D. he says.
If Jesus really returned back then, WHY ARE WE NOT IN THE NEW JERUSALEM? The millennial kingdom ended ~1000 years ago and we are now in eternity. WHY IS THERE STILL SUFFERING AND DEATH IN THIS WORLD?
Jesus returned in 70A.D. he says.
If Jesus really returned back then, WHY ARE WE NOT IN THE NEW JERUSALEM? The millennial kingdom ended ~1000 years ago and we are now in eternity. WHY IS THERE STILL SUFFERING AND DEATH IN THIS WORLD?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA. Are you serious? You really have no idea that this was the destruction of Babylon in 539 BC. This coincides with Jer 51. Go back and look at verse 17, which you quoted and I highlighted for you above. Who destroyed Babylon, the Medes and Persians, right? This is one of your main problems, you don't find fulfillment in anything because you likely have never studied history, especially Biblical history.
Read some commentaries on Isa 13 if you don't want to believe me. Here are a couple for you.
https://www.ucg.org/beyond-today/a-prophecy-about-babylon-confirms-the-accuracy-of-the-bible
Isaiah 13 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)
https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/isaiah-13/
Notes on the Bible by Albert Barnes: Isaiah: Isaiah Chapter 13
You really need to stop. You are embarrassing yourself.