Not By Works

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blue_ladybug said:
Anton Levey and Alistair Crowley were satanists.. If I remember correctly, one of them wrote the satanic bible..
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Well...

If this is true,

I believe Dcon owes me an apology.

I mean it, he REALLY does.

This would be going over the limit....
 
dcontroversal said:
He promised.....

a. To NEVER leave us or forsake us
b. Finish what he started and bring it to fruition<--He is the BEGINNER and FINISHER of our faith
c. SAVE us to the UTTERMOST
d. PLACE our sins as far as the EAST is from the WEST and remember them NO MORE
e. SAVE us eternally and give unto us ETERNAL life
f. Place us in the FATHER's hand and in HIS hand and SEAL us with his SPIRIT
g. THAT NOTHING can separate us fro HIS LOVE
h. LOSE nothing that has been given by the FATHER but raise it up on the last day
I. ETC

ALL who have trusted the saving faith of Christ....

a. ARE covered by his blood eternally
b. Have JESUS mediating before the HEAVENLY FATHER NON-STOP
c. HAVE the out bounding GRACE of GOD bounding ahead of our SIN
d. HAVE the righteousness of Christ applied dia faith
e. HAVE been SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED (positionally) and SEALED (all past tense with present continuing results by verb tense)

No matter how one slices, dices, rejects, denies, embellishes and or flat lies....IF you can LOSE salvation then YOU must do something to keep it, get it or maintain it....<----ALL equal a works based false gospel which is condemned by PAUL in GALATIANS and NOT found anywhere in the bible....

Salvation if a FREE GIFT based upon faith. It cannot be eared, kept and or maintained by works as it is already GIVEN in faith.
ANY work or fruit is the RESULT of the faith and salvation already POSSESSED by the one who has been saved by faith dia grace.
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I DON'T SEE ANY SCRIPTURE.

YOUR opinion really does NOT interest me. Or anyone else, I would imagine.
 
PeterJens said:
I realised peoples language is inverted. Rather than saying the law is fantastic but I
have problems understanding this, people are saying the law condemns me, I just want
acceptance and forgiveness.

The law is only there for law breakers, and if one has a problem with the law, you are a
law breaker. So rather than using this as an excuse, it is an opportunity to see the law
represents the heart of God. If we have Gods heart the law is the outflow from us.

Jesus and Paul simply say if you love you fulfill the law. So people are saying they have
a problem with loving others in general or certain people in particular?

I have to be honest unless you can overcome this barrier faith is a little pointless.
We are the people of love, our hearts are full of love, our walk is a walk of love and service.
At what point is there a rejection of the ability to love others?

Do I perfectly love all? No, but I work on it, and learn how to grow in Christ and the cross,
to see how I can reach out and lift up others. How do you walk?
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1. The law does condemn you unless your saved.
2. Thge law was given to the lost. To lead them to christ.
 
UnderGrace said:
Well maybe you can answer this question.

How much obedience to the faith is necessary to be saved. There must be an absolute standard since we are taking about God who is perfect.

Where does God draw the line and say you have not met the standard set by Abraham and therefore you are now in jeopardy of losing your salvation
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look forward to reply
 
No, I'm not Catholic. But I DO believe in ALL of God's promises, including that of eternal life.. :)


FranC said:
storm-above-emoticon.png



Are you CATHOLIC???????????????

They also say you must believe in all the dogma or you can't go to heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You serve a MEAN God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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stonesoffire said:
~Mat 11:28　 "Come to me, all of you who are weary and loaded down with burdens, and I will give you rest.
　
Mat 11:29　 Place my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble, and you will find rest for your souls,　


Mat 11:30　 because my yoke is pleasant, and my burden is light."　

Spirit Fran...the walk by Spirit is not of men. Rest in Him...then walk...then stand. Nee.

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Does Mathew 5 mean nothing to you???

If you but look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultrey.
Mathew5:27-28

Before you had to have physical relations with a woman to commit adultery.
Jesus said you just have to lust after her and YOU HAVE ALREADY COMMITED ADULTERY.





Mathew 5:21

If you just HATE your Brother, you have already killed him in your heart.
Before you really had to kill him.


Does it sound to you like Jesus made it easier to follow God or harder????

Your side keeps talking to me about how everything is a matter of the HEART.

WELL. IS IT OR ISN'T IT?
Jesus brought every thought into the commandments down to the HEART LEVEL.

So you can't have it both ways. You either believe it's of the heart or you don't.
DECIDE


Oh. And about the yoke. Jesus yoke is easy because He was nice enough to leave us with the Holy Spirit when He went away.

Did you read
Mathew 16:24
"IF anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me".

Is the a conflict in scripture?
NO.

We MUST TAKE UP OUR CROSS DAILY
But Jesus will help us.
 
FranC said:
Yes. You're right.
I don't know scripture well enough, so you're going to have to state the verses for me.

So Mathew 24:13 is speaking about the great tribulation and he who ENDURES to the end will be saved.
Does this mean that persons alive at that time would STILL be alive at the end of the tribulation?

I know that some theologians have put forth this exegesis.

I do not agree with it.
Mathew 24 is speaking to the end of the world; however, if you start at

Mathew 24:4 : Jesus is speaking about those who will come in His name and claim to be the Messiah.
But it will not be the end yet. Nation will rise against nation, there will be famines and earthquakes, this is the beginning of the end (Birth pains)

Jesus says... Then you will be persecuted, you will be hated..

AT THAT TIME MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH.

JESUS HIMSELF says that it is possible to turn away from the faith.


They will betray and hate each other.
Their love will grow cold.

BUT HE WHO STANDS FIRM TILL THE END WILL BE SAVED.

IOW, The ones who DO NOT turn away from the faith WILL BE SAVED.


1. Jesus says that some will turn away from the faith. Jesus should know if something can or cannot be done.
If HE says it, it must be true.

2. Those whose love does not grow cold and hold onto faith till the end of THEIR LIFE, will be saved.


This makes far more sense than to say that those who hold on till the end of time will be saved.
How does that make sense?
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No, It is not talking about the end of the world. But the end of the tribulation.

and yes, Whoever is alive then, will be saved, and enter the thousand year reign with Christ as he sets hip his thron as promises and prophesied.

It is not talking about salvation, we are saved by grace, Not works.

You can not earn grace, and we are saved by grace, why your trying to say salvation myust be earned by doing the work of enduring contradicts what grace really is.

again, Interpret scripture to make it agree. Not contradict itself.

That is how and why I changed a lot of my beliefs, people confronted me with contradictions in my scripture interpretation. And I opened my mind to study. And found them to be correct.

It is awakening to do so.
 
stonesoffire said:
~Mat 11:28　 "Come to me, all of you who are weary and loaded down with burdens, and I will give you rest.
　
Mat 11:29　 Place my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble, and you will find rest for your souls,　


Mat 11:30　 because my yoke is pleasant, and my burden is light."　

Spirit Fran...the walk by Spirit is not of men. Rest in Him...then walk...then stand. Nee.

Click to expand...

P.S.

Yes. I do like Watchman Nee.
SIT WALK STAND

Good spiritual reading.
 
blue_ladybug said:

Eternal life is a bad doctrine?!!! Oh my goodness.. Eternal life is a TRUE doctrine. WOW..
Click to expand...

Its ok, iron sharpens iron.

It is good to discuss, it strengthens you, SOme people call it arguing, some call it discussion. I am just thankful I had a friend who refused to let me go.
 
FranC said:
Does Mathew 5 mean nothing to you???

If you but look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultrey.
Mathew5:27-28

Before you had to have physical relations with a woman to commit adultery.
Jesus said you just have to lust after her and YOU HAVE ALREADY COMMITED ADULTERY.





Mathew 5:21

If you just HATE your Brother, you have already killed him in your heart.
Before you really had to kill him.


Does it sound to you like Jesus made it easier to follow God or harder????

Your side keeps talking to me about how everything is a matter of the HEART.

WELL. IS IT OR ISN'T IT?
Jesus brought every thought into the commandments down to the HEART LEVEL.

So you can't have it both ways. You either believe it's of the heart or you don't.
DECIDE


Oh. And about the yoke. Jesus yoke is easy because He was nice enough to leave us with the Holy Spirit when He went away.

Did you read
Mathew 16:24
"IF anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me".

Is the a conflict in scripture?
NO.

We MUST TAKE UP OUR CROSS DAILY
But Jesus will help us.
Click to expand...

He never said do it to save yourself.

and your right, it is harder to obey God than the is perceived by thge law. We agree on this,

Yet Gods demand of perfection still stands. And neither your or I can meet this standard.
 
FranC said:
Well...

If this is true,

I believe Dcon owes me an apology.

I mean it, he REALLY does.

This would be going over the limit....
Click to expand...

And why would that be?.....lost is lost and it was a generalized statement so.........how many times have you apologized for sharp, pointed statements.........
 
FranC said:
I DON'T SEE ANY SCRIPTURE.

YOUR opinion really does NOT interest me. Or anyone else, I would imagine.
Click to expand...


You really must not study much....every point is a reference to scripture and or quoted from scripture.....I have come to the conclusion that you rarely study....based upon the fact that you cannot even recognize scriptural quotes or direct references to scripture.....
 
FranC said:
Does Mathew 5 mean nothing to you???

If you but look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultrey.
Mathew5:27-28

Before you had to have physical relations with a woman to commit adultery.
Jesus said you just have to lust after her and YOU HAVE ALREADY COMMITED ADULTERY.





Mathew 5:21

If you just HATE your Brother, you have already killed him in your heart.
Before you really had to kill him.


Does it sound to you like Jesus made it easier to follow God or harder????

Your side keeps talking to me about how everything is a matter of the HEART.

WELL. IS IT OR ISN'T IT?
Jesus brought every thought into the commandments down to the HEART LEVEL.

So you can't have it both ways. You either believe it's of the heart or you don't.
DECIDE


Oh. And about the yoke. Jesus yoke is easy because He was nice enough to leave us with the Holy Spirit when He went away.

Did you read
Mathew 16:24
"IF anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me".

Is the a conflict in scripture?
NO.

We MUST TAKE UP OUR CROSS DAILY
But Jesus will help us.
Click to expand...

And this post shows me that you make the same mistake that many do...and I did too for a long time...until I started to do my own studies. We are dead...now. We died with Christ, and are risen with Him.

But, if the foundation is off...so is the building. Resurrection life is only realized in men when the identity of who we are...in Him...is correct.

We have the mind of Christ. Dead to sin...alive to God. It actually becomes our reality. But, it takes time...and our eyes to be opened.

Is all I have time for now.

You remind me of someone from another forum.
 
Again another false application of the words of Jesus. There is not one indication in that whole passage Jesus is addressing being born again in Him and being saved.

He is not preaching about keeping spiritual salvation. He is talking about bodily persecution

“endure to the end and be saved,”

It has to do with enduring physically, not believers enduring in their faith or in the quality of their walk.

FranC said:
Yes. You're right.
I don't know scripture well enough, so you're going to have to state the verses for me.

So Mathew 24:13 is speaking about the great tribulation and he who ENDURES to the end will be saved.
Does this mean that persons alive at that time would STILL be alive at the end of the tribulation?

I know that some theologians have put forth this exegesis.

I do not agree with it.
Mathew 24 is speaking to the end of the world; however, if you start at

Mathew 24:4 : Jesus is speaking about those who will come in His name and claim to be the Messiah.
But it will not be the end yet. Nation will rise against nation, there will be famines and earthquakes, this is the beginning of the end (Birth pains)

Jesus says... Then you will be persecuted, you will be hated..

AT THAT TIME MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH.

JESUS HIMSELF says that it is possible to turn away from the faith.


They will betray and hate each other.
Their love will grow cold.

BUT HE WHO STANDS FIRM TILL THE END WILL BE SAVED.

IOW, The ones who DO NOT turn away from the faith WILL BE SAVED.


1. Jesus says that some will turn away from the faith. Jesus should know if something can or cannot be done.
If HE says it, it must be true.

2. Those whose love does not grow cold and hold onto faith till the end of THEIR LIFE, will be saved.


This makes far more sense than to say that those who hold on till the end of time will be saved.
How does that make sense?
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal said:
You really must not study much....every point is a reference to scripture and or quoted from scripture.....I have come to the conclusion that you rarely study....based upon the fact that you cannot even recognize scriptural quotes or direct references to scripture.....
Click to expand...

It's a spirit dcon...a religious spirit.

Just an addon...it's the only spirit that can't be cast out because it's the natural or the nature of men to be so.

Now I really have to go.
 
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