Not By Works

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You're STILL asking that question? NO, we don't have to do good works FOR salvation, nor to KEEP salvation. We do them to show God's love to others through us.. :)


FranC said:
Gb will "take this one".Why?
You cant handle it?
Or maybe youre working in groups?

And why dont you address me, instead of talking ABOUT me?

Undergrace just admitted to what YOU incorrect encourage...
He said we DO NOT have to do good works either for salvation or to keep salvation.

If you dont correct him, it means you agree with him.

Well?
Click to expand...
 
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some people say we cannot abstain from sin after we are saved,which this is true while in the flesh,but led of the Spirit we can abstain from sin,if we hate sin,do not want sin,for when we are tempted God will not put on us more than we are able,and with the temptation will give us an escape from it so we are able to bear it,and the Spirit will lead us to do that which is good.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and if someone does sin,they could of chosen the good,and nobody is twisting our arm to sin.

I am sorry officer for stealing that car,but I did not want to,but my body went to stealing that car,and I could not stop it,and also I could not stop myself from drinking that twelve pack you see lying on the back floor,but you know how it goes officer,we cannot abstain from sin.

Even the world can abstain from sin if they want to,because it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.How does the world stop some sins,and do not do them again.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

A person led of the Spirit will not display any ways of the flesh,but the ways of the Spirit.You do not see any ways of the flesh there.

A person that hates sin,and does not want sin,can abstain from sin led by the Spirit,which then they are not under the law,which means they have abstained from sin at the time they allow the Spirit to lead them,and all their sins are forgiven,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they sin they are back under the law,until they get rid of it,and allow the Spirit to lead them.

Which people should be honest,and do not say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but say,I am going to enjoy this here thing that they call sin,and I know it is wrong to do,and I am not right with God when I do it,but I will enjoy it something immensely for a spell,but then I will rids me of that sin,and allow the Spirit to lead me again.

Which sad to say some people never received the Spirit after they confessed Christ,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and ever learning,but never able to come to the truth,that sin does affect their relationship with God,and many will say to Jesus,Lord why can't we dwell with you,and He will say they were workers of iniquity.

If someone believes we cannot abstain from sin,which seems they are ignoring that the Spirt can cause them to overcome the flesh,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when the Bible says it does,it appears that they want to enjoy sin,but want an excuse that they are right with God.

So what would be so hard to abide by the Beatitudes if we can be led of the Spirit,for we will show the characteristics of the Spirit,but not everybody that confesses Christ want to abstain from sin,so they say we cannot abstain from sin,and because they want to be right with God,they say it does not affect their relationship with God.

But how can they ignore that the Spirit can help us overcme the flesh,as if the Spirit has no power to do so,which they deny the power thereof.
 

Good News....

Salvation is the gift of God, without cost or obligation.

Grace is truly amazing.




FranC said:
Gb will "take this one".Why?
You cant handle it?
Or maybe youre working in groups?

And why dont you address me, instead of talking ABOUT me?

Undergrace just admitted to what YOU incorrect encourage...
He said we DO NOT have to do good works either for salvation or to keep salvation.

If you dont correct him, it means you agree with him.

Well?
Click to expand...
 
MattforJesus said:
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some people say we cannot abstain from sin after we are saved,which this is true while in the flesh,but led of the Spirit we can abstain from sin,if we hate sin,do not want sin,for when we are tempted God will not put on us more than we are able,and with the temptation will give us an escape from it so we are able to bear it,and the Spirit will lead us to do that which is good.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and if someone does sin,they could of chosen the good,and nobody is twisting our arm to sin.

I am sorry officer for stealing that car,but I did not want to,but my body went to stealing that car,and I could not stop it,and also I could not stop myself from drinking that twelve pack you see lying on the back floor,but you know how it goes officer,we cannot abstain from sin.

Even the world can abstain from sin if they want to,because it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.How does the world stop some sins,and do not do them again.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

A person led of the Spirit will not display any ways of the flesh,but the ways of the Spirit.You do not see any ways of the flesh there.

A person that hates sin,and does not want sin,can abstain from sin led by the Spirit,which then they are not under the law,which means they have abstained from sin at the time they allow the Spirit to lead them,and all their sins are forgiven,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they sin they are back under the law,until they get rid of it,and allow the Spirit to lead them.

Which people should be honest,and do not say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but say,I am going to enjoy this here thing that they call sin,and I know it is wrong to do,and I am not right with God when I do it,but I will enjoy it something immensely for a spell,but then I will rids me of that sin,and allow the Spirit to lead me again.

Which sad to say some people never received the Spirit after they confessed Christ,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and ever learning,but never able to come to the truth,that sin does affect their relationship with God,and many will say to Jesus,Lord why can't we dwell with you,and He will say they were workers of iniquity.

If someone believes we cannot abstain from sin,which seems they are ignoring that the Spirt can cause them to overcome the flesh,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when the Bible says it does,it appears that they want to enjoy sin,but want an excuse that they are right with God.

So what would be so hard to abide by the Beatitudes if we can be led of the Spirit,for we will show the characteristics of the Spirit,but not everybody that confesses Christ want to abstain from sin,so they say we cannot abstain from sin,and because they want to be right with God,they say it does not affect their relationship with God.

But how can they ignore that the Spirit can help us overcme the flesh,as if the Spirit has no power to do so,which they deny the power thereof.
Click to expand...

Can you express your point simply please.
 
Simply put, we are not able to abide by the Beatitudes apart from Christ, it is Jesus within us that works in us.

Scripture does not teach we are in a process of perfecting the flesh, we are, however, learning to have faith and abide in Christ, which is walking in the Spirit.


MattforJesus said:
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some people say we cannot abstain from sin after we are saved,which this is true while in the flesh,but led of the Spirit we can abstain from sin,if we hate sin,do not want sin,for when we are tempted God will not put on us more than we are able,and with the temptation will give us an escape from it so we are able to bear it,and the Spirit will lead us to do that which is good.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and if someone does sin,they could of chosen the good,and nobody is twisting our arm to sin.

I am sorry officer for stealing that car,but I did not want to,but my body went to stealing that car,and I could not stop it,and also I could not stop myself from drinking that twelve pack you see lying on the back floor,but you know how it goes officer,we cannot abstain from sin.

Even the world can abstain from sin if they want to,because it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.How does the world stop some sins,and do not do them again.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

A person led of the Spirit will not display any ways of the flesh,but the ways of the Spirit.You do not see any ways of the flesh there.

A person that hates sin,and does not want sin,can abstain from sin led by the Spirit,which then they are not under the law,which means they have abstained from sin at the time they allow the Spirit to lead them,and all their sins are forgiven,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they sin they are back under the law,until they get rid of it,and allow the Spirit to lead them.

Which people should be honest,and do not say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but say,I am going to enjoy this here thing that they call sin,and I know it is wrong to do,and I am not right with God when I do it,but I will enjoy it something immensely for a spell,but then I will rids me of that sin,and allow the Spirit to lead me again.

Which sad to say some people never received the Spirit after they confessed Christ,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and ever learning,but never able to come to the truth,that sin does affect their relationship with God,and many will say to Jesus,Lord why can't we dwell with you,and He will say they were workers of iniquity.

If someone believes we cannot abstain from sin,which seems they are ignoring that the Spirt can cause them to overcome the flesh,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when the Bible says it does,it appears that they want to enjoy sin,but want an excuse that they are right with God.

So what would be so hard to abide by the Beatitudes if we can be led of the Spirit,for we will show the characteristics of the Spirit,but not everybody that confesses Christ want to abstain from sin,so they say we cannot abstain from sin,and because they want to be right with God,they say it does not affect their relationship with God.

But how can they ignore that the Spirit can help us overcme the flesh,as if the Spirit has no power to do so,which they deny the power thereof.
Click to expand...
 
People need to stop making an excuse they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,which if they do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

There is no excuse,it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so if you do evil you could of chose the good.

Not saying we might not sin,but if we do sin we get rid of it,and not hold unto it,but do not make it out like we will sin despite our best efforts,for by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,which they seem to not point out that there is a possibility for us to not sin for a certain amount of time,because then it would clash with them liking sin,so they do not want to believe they can abstain from sin for then when they do sin,they know they have no excuse.
 
MattforJesus said:
People need to stop making an excuse they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,which if they do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

There is no excuse,it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so if you do evil you could of chose the good.

Not saying we might not sin,but if we do sin we get rid of it,and not hold unto it,but do not make it out like we will sin despite our best efforts,for by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,which they seem to not point out that there is a possibility for us to not sin for a certain amount of time,because then it would clash with them liking sin,so they do not want to believe they can abstain from sin for then when they do sin,they know they have no excuse.
Click to expand...
we will sin when a human emotion takes over...
 
Right,that is the only way to go by the B-attitudes is to have Christ work in our life,but we never perfect the flesh,for we cannot,for in the flesh dwells no good thing,and it is always like that,which is why we are tempted,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

We can never perfect the flesh,but we allow the Spirit to lead us,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,in which the fleshy ways have no place there.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Led by the Spirit with these characteristics,a person will be able to keep the B-attitudes,but the flesh will never comply,which with our mind we serve Christ.
 
BillG said:
Fran accept the olive branch.

DC try to understand that over this side of the pond certain phrases and words can upset us sensitive souls.

I would say for all of us concerning this thread that actually we won't agree, the issue is not agreeing but it's how to disagree given the diversity of culture.

As long as it does not detract from the fact Jesus is who says he is, and we have placed genuine faith in him.
Click to expand...

That may be, but the verbiage is clear and the bible has but one central truth concerning everything that it teaches...salvation is the beginning point and there is but one correct message (gospel) of salvation not two, three or fifty......the correct message leads to eternal life and the proverbial gates of heaven....anything that misses the mark = hell.....I know all about verbiage and how one perceives what is said based upon culture...I have been to AU 6 times and all my AU friends have no problem understanding what I say, how I say it and why I say it....she claims to be an expert in English and should have no problem understanding and or perceiving what I am saying....there is no reason to be upset if we have heated discussions....he name calling as in "easy graceers" etc. does not offend me...why? Because I am an adult not a 14 year old in high school...I like Fran...really do....but to tie works to faith for salvation is contrary and I will stand opposed to it until the end....
 
Agree :D just to qualify your statement a bit...
,a person will be able to keep the B-attitudes
Click to expand...
.

Christ in the person has the beatitudes accomplished.

The person just has to let Christ do His work...He must increase while I decrease. John 3:30


MattforJesus said:
Right,that is the only way to go by the B-attitudes is to have Christ work in our life,but we never perfect the flesh,for we cannot,for in the flesh dwells no good thing,and it is always like that,which is why we are tempted,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

We can never perfect the flesh,but we allow the Spirit to lead us,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,in which the fleshy ways have no place there.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Led by the Spirit with these characteristics,a person will be able to keep the B-attitudes,but the flesh will never comply,which with our mind we serve Christ.
Click to expand...
 
UnderGrace said:
Too Funny!!! Learn the truth ...I know where you are I was once there, in bondage to a half Gospel which is no Gospel at all


.....God did it ALL...That is the true Gospel!!


God is not a God of half measures. In Adam we all died..... in Jesus we are Born Again never again to be lost.

His perfection is our perfection.

Believe it and accept ... be set free as only He can do!!!
Click to expand...
When were you where i am?
How do you know where i am?
Do you know how many years ive been christian?

Incredible.
Everone here knows everthing about me!
 
MattforJesus said:
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some people say we cannot abstain from sin after we are saved,which this is true while in the flesh,but led of the Spirit we can abstain from sin,if we hate sin,do not want sin,for when we are tempted God will not put on us more than we are able,and with the temptation will give us an escape from it so we are able to bear it,and the Spirit will lead us to do that which is good.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice,and if someone does sin,they could of chosen the good,and nobody is twisting our arm to sin.

I am sorry officer for stealing that car,but I did not want to,but my body went to stealing that car,and I could not stop it,and also I could not stop myself from drinking that twelve pack you see lying on the back floor,but you know how it goes officer,we cannot abstain from sin.

Even the world can abstain from sin if they want to,because it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.How does the world stop some sins,and do not do them again.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

A person led of the Spirit will not display any ways of the flesh,but the ways of the Spirit.You do not see any ways of the flesh there.

A person that hates sin,and does not want sin,can abstain from sin led by the Spirit,which then they are not under the law,which means they have abstained from sin at the time they allow the Spirit to lead them,and all their sins are forgiven,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they sin they are back under the law,until they get rid of it,and allow the Spirit to lead them.

Which people should be honest,and do not say,we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but say,I am going to enjoy this here thing that they call sin,and I know it is wrong to do,and I am not right with God when I do it,but I will enjoy it something immensely for a spell,but then I will rids me of that sin,and allow the Spirit to lead me again.

Which sad to say some people never received the Spirit after they confessed Christ,which they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,and ever learning,but never able to come to the truth,that sin does affect their relationship with God,and many will say to Jesus,Lord why can't we dwell with you,and He will say they were workers of iniquity.

If someone believes we cannot abstain from sin,which seems they are ignoring that the Spirt can cause them to overcome the flesh,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,when the Bible says it does,it appears that they want to enjoy sin,but want an excuse that they are right with God.

So what would be so hard to abide by the Beatitudes if we can be led of the Spirit,for we will show the characteristics of the Spirit,but not everybody that confesses Christ want to abstain from sin,so they say we cannot abstain from sin,and because they want to be right with God,they say it does not affect their relationship with God.

But how can they ignore that the Spirit can help us overcme the flesh,as if the Spirit has no power to do so,which they deny the power thereof.
Click to expand...


Go peddle your sinless perfectionism someplace else.......this has been beat to death by you while you ignore all scriptures that deals with this in a believer........

Go study We, WE, WE and US......then come back and tell us how John was as holy as they come, as well as Daniel and they both confessed or admitted sin after belief and while saved.......
 
I hope you take the time to explain your statement at some point, because I am truly wondering what you consider "our part."

Check back later.

FranC said:
Right.
And why dont you admit that Jesus came here to lead you into the kingdom and to teach you how to stay there.
Why dont you stop putting all the weight on Him and do your part?

Admit to those reading along that we MUST do pur part and stop fooling around with empty cheap grace words.
Click to expand...
 
MattforJesus said:
People need to stop making an excuse they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,which if they do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

There is no excuse,it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so if you do evil you could of chose the good.

Not saying we might not sin,but if we do sin we get rid of it,and not hold unto it,but do not make it out like we will sin despite our best efforts,for by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,which they seem to not point out that there is a possibility for us to not sin for a certain amount of time,because then it would clash with them liking sin,so they do not want to believe they can abstain from sin for then when they do sin,they know they have no excuse.
Click to expand...

People need to stop being deceptive like the above post as no one has said that, but rather we have been honest with what ALL verses have to say about the subject...key word HONEST...not cherry picking and then pushing a sinless perfectionist dogma that the bible condemned under JESUS---->PHARISEES
 
Ariel82 said:
Those folks cast out has the same level of faith as demons and constantly rejected God. They received the blessings from God but never accepted the Gospel message of have a saving faith. They were under the Old covenant. The law that found them sinners and condemned. Most did not accept the prophecies of a Messiah or trust in that promise.

Abel did. Moses. David. Isaiah. John the Baptist. Anna. Simeon



Many will be rejected because they either have the intectual faith of demons or the heathen faith of being rewarded for their service.



How many actually have a saving faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross?
Click to expand...
Why are you always wondering who is saved?

You mean only 7 persons in the o.t. Were saved?
You know everything!
 
JIMBO43 said:
we will sin when a human emotion takes over...
Click to expand...

we will sin anytime the flesh takes over...if it is NOT of FAITH it is sin......<----funny thing....it does not say IF it is NOT OF WORKS it is SIN......

Only one was sinless...JESUS........no one else is sinless!
 
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