The Rapture

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

J7 said:

LET ME SOLVE THE CONFUSION, and you can look this up EASILY.

The word CHURCH is not in the Greek Language Texts that our English Bible was Translated from. The English speaking people were calling themselves the CHURCH before there was an English Translation of the BIBLE. The Early Translators chose to substitute the word CHURCH FOR THE WORD JESUS ACTUALLY USED, when HE said:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Why is that important?

The word CHURCH applies only to the New Testament Believers, while the WORD ASSEMBLY applies to TRUE BELIEVERS OF ALL TIME INCLUDING ADAM.

Acts 10:34-35 (HCSB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism,
[SUP]35 [/SUP] but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him.

Galatians 3:28 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The word CHURCH, excludes the O.T. Saints, while the word ASSEMBLY includes the O.T. Saints.

John 10:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

The Birthday of the Church is not until PENTECOST AFTER HIS RESURRECTION.

Therefore the People HE was Talking to, were the last of the O.T. SAINTS.

We are the ones that were not of this fold and NOTICE only after OUR FOLD is complete, Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Therefore, we become the ONE FLOCK under ONE SHEPHERD, when HE CALLS US OUT TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB.

Saying only the N.T. Saints are the Bride, is calling GOD a Liar, when He said He shows NO FAVORITISM.

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

O.T. Saints believed God would send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.

N.T. Saints believed God did send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.

THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM!

Okey all of you who DOUBT this makes the O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints co-equally the BRIDE of Christ; explain to me how that SAME FAITH, the FAITH of Abraham, does not place them co-equally IN MESSIAH; when GOD actually said:

HE DOES NOT CHANGE,
and
HE SHOWS NO FAVORITISM?

Romans 3:12 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

ALL ARE SAVED BY GRACE both O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints.

Swallow your pride, and make room on those Heavenly Pews for our Old Testament Brothers and Sisters.

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

valiant said:

At that Judgment, how much water will that excuse hold? "I did not think this would be literal."

Muzungu256 · Jun 16, 2017

valiant you said: "With the trumpet and bowls they are concurrent, the latter two an intensification in parts of the world. They then continue through history. Note how each ends at the second coming."

could you tell me more about what you mean by the intensification?????????????? i ask everyone to go to youtube and you see that many waters are turning red right now......... and many fish are perishing............ and these are pretty late trumpets maybe its a coincidence maybe not.

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

PlainWord said:

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

AND HERE YOU ARE.

Titus 2:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

valiant · Jun 16, 2017

VCO said:

God will commend me for accepting His O T description

His OT stance on earth is NEVER literal.

valiant · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Many waters have turned red with the blood of warfare through the centuries, beginning at the 1st. And many fish have died as a result

Muzungu256 · Jun 16, 2017

valiant said:

thanks.. do u expect to see a future antichrist like in thessalonians where it says Jesus comes and kills the AC???????

valiant · Jun 16, 2017

VCO said:

And the ekklesia (church, gathering) meant the gathering of His people in LXX, thus in Matthew 16.18 He meant that His new gathering/ assembly would be a continuation of Israel, not a contrast with Israel.

valiant · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

I believe the antichrist in 2 Thess 2 was the Roman emperor at the time. There will be many antichrists.(1 John 2.18)

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Yes, I believe the Red Algae that is killing the fish, could possibly go into hyper multiplying mode, spreading around the world.

Revelation 16:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The second poured out his bowl into the sea. It turned to blood like a dead man’s, and all life in the sea died.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The third poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood.

[video=youtube;ifTE_q84NdE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifTE_q84NdE[/video]:

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Yes, but we will be coming with HIM, on white horses as part of the heavenly armies, but where did you get the idea that He kills the Anti-christ?

Revelation 19:14-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: KING OF KINGSAND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Zechariah 14:3-5 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

SEE IT? We have to be in heaven PRIOR to coming with HIM.

Muzungu256 · Jun 16, 2017

VCO said:

why cant they be all the people who have died in Christ thru history

Ahwatukee · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Hell Muzungu256,

The idea that the trumpets and bowls run concurrently is incorrect and below is the reason why:

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven [last plagues]—last, because with them [God’s wrath is completed]."

According to the scripture above, the bowl judgments, as a unit "with them" are the last plagues which complete God's wrath. The words "last plagues" would infer that there is wrath prior to the bowl judgments, namely the trumpets and prior to the trumpets will be the seals. Therefore, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place in the exact order that they are found in the book of Revelation. That is, they do not run concurrently, but take place one after another in sequence.

Ahwatukee · Jun 16, 2017

PlainWord said:

This interpretation is only an attempt to get rid of the Lord's literal and physical return to the earth. He only used the lightning that shines from the east and also seen in the west as meaning that His physical return would be a sudden event which none of the inhabitants on the earth would miss and not that he appear as lightning.

To be clear, when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age "every eye will see him" just as the scripture proclaims. One of the proofs of this is that all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

From the time that Jesus ascended up into heaven, He has yet to return. He is first going to appear to gather His church as He promised us in John 14:1-3, which is every believers blessed hope.

"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

1 Thes.4:16 is a detailed account of the fulfillment of the promise above, where the Lord will descend to the atmosphere, with the dead in Christ rising first and then the living being changed and caught up, with the whole group being taken to the Father's house.

After that event, the time of God's wrath, the day of the Lord, will begin via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. At the end of that seven years, when God's wrath has been completed, then Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-15 will take place with the physical and visual return of the Lord to the earth to end the age and the church following him out of heaven riding on white horses.

At that time, the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire and all of those kings, generals, mighty men, their armies and all of the wicked that the angels will have gathered, will be killed by that double-edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of the rider on the horse.

After that, an angel will seize the dragon/Satan and thrown him into the Abyss, closing and sealing it and restricting him during the same literal thousand years that Jesus will be ruling upon the earth in Israel from the throne of David in fulfillment of the scripture.

Jesus has not yet returned, either as a flash of lightning nor physically. The next event to take place will be the appearing of the Lord to gather His church and to take them back to the Father's house, followed by God's time of wrath.

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2017

samuel23 said:

That is something I never really thought of, is the thousand year reign of Christ the kingdom of God? Paul did say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Those that are mentioned in Rev 20 are the believers who refused to take the mark of the Beast, they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Since everyone had to have the mark of the Beast then who is alive to continue to populate the earth during the thousand years? Just my opinion here, all those who took the mark are doomed, however it may be that children 10 and under were not given the mark and some of them could have survived to repopulate the earth.

Isaiah....the Jews go all the way thru and repopulate the waste cities....Daniel 12<---exactly 1335 days left to deal with Israel....!

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2017

valiant said:

Did every living thing die.......world wide?

serpentdove · Jun 16, 2017

"One roadblock in understanding the sign of Revelation 12 is by not understanding the layout of the book of Revelation. Chapter 11 takes the reader to the end of the seven years at the seventh trumpet when the earth fully becomes under Jesus Christ our Lord. Chapter 12 begins further detail on this coming time and starts back at the beginning. We therefore begin at this sign that represents Israel and the bringing forth of the Messiah. But the point is that this is a heavenly sign placed in heaven to show us when these things will begin. That is, the continuation of the salvation story through the nation of Israel..." Full text: The Micah Prophecy - The Key to Revelation 12

"SECTION OUTLINE ELEVEN (REVELATION 11)
John sees the two witnesses of God carrying out their 1,260-day ministry before being murdered by the Antichrist...

...SECTION OUTLINE TWELVE (REVELATION 12)
John sees an interplay between a woman and a dragon, symbolizing the nation of Israel and Satan." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 11, 12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Ahwatukee · Jun 16, 2017

serpentdove said:

Greetings serpentdove,

The information in Rev.12 are events that will take place during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. The woman is Israel as revealed in Gen.37:9-10 and it is in the middle of that seven year period that the war in heaven takes place where Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth, which is the 7th trumpet and 3rd woe. It is from the middle of the seven that Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth And it is during that last 1260 days or 3 1/2 years that the woman is cared for out in the desert by God and that because of the abomination that causes the desolation that will have been set up.

The "Male Child" is not representing Jesus, but is a collective name for the 144,000 who will have come out of Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God out of Israel. Rev.14:4 says that "these are those who will not have defiled themselves with women," which would make them all males, ergo, male child. Furthermore, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child and that because the male child is caught up to God and his throne before the dragon can kill him vs. Jesus who was crucified.

In regards to the two witnesses, their are only two options for their time of prophecy, either from the beginning of the seven years to the middle of the seven or from the middle of the seven to the end of the seven. According to other scriptures, their time of prophecy must take place during the first 3 1/2 years. The reason for this is that, in the middle of the seven years is when the abomination is set up, which causes the desolation of Jerusalem. This is when the woman/Israel flees out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God. Therefore, if you have the two witnesses prophesying during the last 3 1/2 years, Israel would not be in Jerusalem for them to prophecy to and that because at that time Jerusalem will have been made desolate.

Therefore, their time of prophecy would have to take place from the beginning of the seven years to the middle and that because at that time, Israel will have rebuilt her temple and will have begun to make sacrifices and offerings and will be occupying Jerusalem during that first 3 1/2 years.

The reference to the woman/Israel being cared for out in the wilderness during that last 1260 days and Satan and his angels being cast out at the same time, demonstrates that these events will take place and cover the entire last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

VCO · Jun 16, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

DEPENDS on how you DEFINE "IN CHRIST".

Matthew 22:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 7:20-23 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to me,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

1 John 2:3-5 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Revelation 16:15 (YLT)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] `lo, I do come as a thief {unannounced}; happy is he who is watching, and keeping his garments, that he may not walk naked, and they may see his unseemliness,' --

Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Muzungu256 · Jun 17, 2017

i wuold define as in-Christ anyone who is saved

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