Not By Works
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Language is a strange thing.
How do you know if you are a sinner or a saint? By a conviction of sin. And what is this
conviction based on? Ones emotional understanding of your relationships with others and God.
We are founded on these relationships. We know how deep they go when someone close to
us dies or has something difficult or brilliant happen to them.
Does God care about us? People say it is whether God exists is the problem but it is actually
does He care? This is why the law was given, to show a path to Him, the Holy of Hollies.
Jesus on the cross was the most intimate, earth shattering statement of His commitment
and forgiveness to us, if we walk in His ways.
Emotions are just flags telling us what is going on inside. They do not determine truth but they
do tell us where we are and what is a block or a problem in our lives. Shut them out, we shut
out our hearts and who we are. Most of our addictions and aberrant behaviour is to resolve
these emotions, so to not address them is not to face what Jesus came to talk about.
And the west is all about individualism and the exalting of desire and ambition above anything
else, fulfill your dreams, become a success and not a failure. Trouble is the dream of success
is only for the truly gifted in that area, and partaking and giving your best is not praised.
I grew up in this society, and truly hate its self destructive fruit, and the posing aspect of which
facebook is a prime example. Some feel facebook only creates in them is a desire to do something
else and create envy in others.
Even here on cc, I wonder if we are here to prove things, or to be vulnerable, to share, to encourage
and grow in the Lord. As I have said before, I am not here to stick to one way of expressing the
beauty of the glory of Christ in my life, but every aspect of it. It is funny how those who preach they
are not bound by rules or boundaries actually cannot change their way of talking or seeing things, lol.
How do you know if you are a sinner or a saint? By a conviction of sin. And what is this
conviction based on? Ones emotional understanding of your relationships with others and God.
We are founded on these relationships. We know how deep they go when someone close to
us dies or has something difficult or brilliant happen to them.
Does God care about us? People say it is whether God exists is the problem but it is actually
does He care? This is why the law was given, to show a path to Him, the Holy of Hollies.
Jesus on the cross was the most intimate, earth shattering statement of His commitment
and forgiveness to us, if we walk in His ways.
Emotions are just flags telling us what is going on inside. They do not determine truth but they
do tell us where we are and what is a block or a problem in our lives. Shut them out, we shut
out our hearts and who we are. Most of our addictions and aberrant behaviour is to resolve
these emotions, so to not address them is not to face what Jesus came to talk about.
And the west is all about individualism and the exalting of desire and ambition above anything
else, fulfill your dreams, become a success and not a failure. Trouble is the dream of success
is only for the truly gifted in that area, and partaking and giving your best is not praised.
I grew up in this society, and truly hate its self destructive fruit, and the posing aspect of which
facebook is a prime example. Some feel facebook only creates in them is a desire to do something
else and create envy in others.
Even here on cc, I wonder if we are here to prove things, or to be vulnerable, to share, to encourage
and grow in the Lord. As I have said before, I am not here to stick to one way of expressing the
beauty of the glory of Christ in my life, but every aspect of it. It is funny how those who preach they
are not bound by rules or boundaries actually cannot change their way of talking or seeing things, lol.
A
We know we are sinners because the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins. He does this based upon God's laws not "Ones emotional understanding of your relationships with others and God."
Emotions and relationships change often daily or minute by minute.
.God's laws do not. They are established by God until the end of this age when Jesus comes back and destroys this world to establish a new Heaven and Earth.
***If God didn't care, He wouldn't have sent Jesus or any of His prophets or His Holy spirit. God loves us much more than we could ever love anyone else.***
Emotions and relationships change often daily or minute by minute.
.God's laws do not. They are established by God until the end of this age when Jesus comes back and destroys this world to establish a new Heaven and Earth.
***If God didn't care, He wouldn't have sent Jesus or any of His prophets or His Holy spirit. God loves us much more than we could ever love anyone else.***
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We come under conviction, yes, but people vary in the convictions they have.
When you forget to do something you promised, and feel bad, is that you feeling bad because
of the hurt and disappointment you know another will feel or just the Holy Spirit or maybe both?
Convictions and how we relate to people vary such an awful lot.
The way you talk is very theoretical, as if people work in a spiritual bubble which is simply not
the case.
Most convictions people live under are not related to Gods law.
Jesus wants us to address this, and not ignore it as some part of our lives we just ignore.
When you forget to do something you promised, and feel bad, is that you feeling bad because
of the hurt and disappointment you know another will feel or just the Holy Spirit or maybe both?
Convictions and how we relate to people vary such an awful lot.
The way you talk is very theoretical, as if people work in a spiritual bubble which is simply not
the case.
Most convictions people live under are not related to Gods law.
Jesus wants us to address this, and not ignore it as some part of our lives we just ignore.
gb9 - I think most people would say this is how they approach life.
But this is not my point.
Let us take the first commandment
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Matt 22:37
Now which part of a person is excluded here. All your heart, soul and mind, means all ones
emotions. But if these emotions are all over the place and out of control, having a will of
their own, not surprising things do not go very well.
We talk of the song amazing grace. This guy used to be a captain of a slave ship. The mess
this guy was in was unbelievable. And so bad was it he just gave it all to Christ.
But we are so protected and never been traumatised, our emotions are like pets, ignored and locked
away and never really addressed because we live such safe protected lives, we can con ourselves it
really does not matter. But this is why we bearly connect or understand or empathise, because the
very thing we would use is all shut away and locked up out of fear people might get to know what we
are really like. So not surprisingly porn dominates, divorce rates sky rocket and pretending in churches
is the biggest past time, but the really sincere get so jaded they go off and form anti-church groups
whose whole mission is to bring down this emotional pretend setup.
And it all comes back to emotional honesty. It matters, it is not something you push under the carpet.
Funny how I agree in part with the problem of self-righteousness but it is not sin, or pomposity but the
emotional reality in the peoples lives. And the kids know what this is, and how good or bad it is.
When it is actually not that good, they know whatever it means they are not going to go there.
Now how honest are people I wonder. Or is this really too scary.
But this is not my point.
Let us take the first commandment
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Matt 22:37
Now which part of a person is excluded here. All your heart, soul and mind, means all ones
emotions. But if these emotions are all over the place and out of control, having a will of
their own, not surprising things do not go very well.
We talk of the song amazing grace. This guy used to be a captain of a slave ship. The mess
this guy was in was unbelievable. And so bad was it he just gave it all to Christ.
But we are so protected and never been traumatised, our emotions are like pets, ignored and locked
away and never really addressed because we live such safe protected lives, we can con ourselves it
really does not matter. But this is why we bearly connect or understand or empathise, because the
very thing we would use is all shut away and locked up out of fear people might get to know what we
are really like. So not surprisingly porn dominates, divorce rates sky rocket and pretending in churches
is the biggest past time, but the really sincere get so jaded they go off and form anti-church groups
whose whole mission is to bring down this emotional pretend setup.
And it all comes back to emotional honesty. It matters, it is not something you push under the carpet.
Funny how I agree in part with the problem of self-righteousness but it is not sin, or pomposity but the
emotional reality in the peoples lives. And the kids know what this is, and how good or bad it is.
When it is actually not that good, they know whatever it means they are not going to go there.
Now how honest are people I wonder. Or is this really too scary.
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I would be careful with that… God looks on the inside of man’s deceitful and desperately wicked heart. Distinguishing the things of God from those of men is where the father of lies gets his foot in the door.Scruipture nforms that offends our living God.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It’s the spirit of the anti-christ that looks to the outside (the cause of the fall) after their experiences of doing what they call a “wonderful works like the example in Mathew 7 therefore not walking by faith the unseen. The Spirit of Christ can use a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as he does with one who does believe (exercising a faith) based on the which is not seen
Christ did not say the man in Mathew 7 did not perform them.
Hebrews 6 calls it dead works coming from a dead faith.
1Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Signs are for those who rebel ,.prophecy for those who mix faith in what they hear.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a "sign"not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It’s the spirit of the anti-christ that looks to the outside (the cause of the fall) after their experiences of doing what they call a “wonderful works like the example in Mathew 7 therefore not walking by faith the unseen. The Spirit of Christ can use a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as he does with one who does believe (exercising a faith) based on the which is not seen
Christ did not say the man in Mathew 7 did not perform them.
Hebrews 6 calls it dead works coming from a dead faith.
1Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Signs are for those who rebel ,.prophecy for those who mix faith in what they hear.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a "sign"not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
A man must be born again in order to have a “new” eternal heart by which they then after being born again can follow the commandment to love him with our newly created heart and “new” eternal spirit that could never die but will be raised on the last day . It is the born again work, the Spirit works in us to both will and do his good pleasure as a imputed righteousness, no man could be found with a righteousness of their own, they show others they do despite to the grace of God that teaches us to say no to those kind of things of men . Hebrews 6 defines that kind, as a dead workcoming from dead faith.
They would be those who crucify Christ again and again every time they would offer their repentance moves God to forgive them .As if the work said to Him who created us anew He had no understanding to offer. It’s what the apostate Jew sought after turning things upside down
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
They would be those who crucify Christ again and again every time they would offer their repentance moves God to forgive them .As if the work said to Him who created us anew He had no understanding to offer. It’s what the apostate Jew sought after turning things upside down
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
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A
No the only true conviction comes from the Holy Spirit. Condemnation can come from self or others.
How one address condemnation is different than how one should address the Holy Spirit conviction in one's life.
Sometimes people rebuke because the Holy Spirit moves them. Sometimes people rebuke because their flesh is speaking and causes condemnation and not conviction.
The holy spirit will convict people by God's law.
People will condemn people by their feelings and fleshly pride.
How one address condemnation is different than how one should address the Holy Spirit conviction in one's life.
Sometimes people rebuke because the Holy Spirit moves them. Sometimes people rebuke because their flesh is speaking and causes condemnation and not conviction.
The holy spirit will convict people by God's law.
People will condemn people by their feelings and fleshly pride.
I actually agree with emotional honesty is hugely important. which brings me back to a point I make very often- tell the truth about ourself TO ourselves. so when we stumble, sin, know to do good and not do so, we need to speak truth about it, not blame others, excuse it, etc.....
you know, like when someone quotes Scripture, then does commentary about it, but seemingly purposefully leaves out part of a verse, then attacks the person , falsely accuses the person of being wicked, because the person points out what they did...........
oh wait- you peter did that to me- guess you should think about that before decrying sin again, huh??
you know, like when someone quotes Scripture, then does commentary about it, but seemingly purposefully leaves out part of a verse, then attacks the person , falsely accuses the person of being wicked, because the person points out what they did...........
oh wait- you peter did that to me- guess you should think about that before decrying sin again, huh??
As my point seems to have missed you I will expand it.
If I want to emphasis failure, ie you cannot walk in sinless perfection, I will say yes you
walk ok this second, but not 27/7 365 days of the year.
But if the argument is walking righteously is our goal, failure may or may not come occasionally,
but our hearts are in righteousness, then this is our focus.
Now dc has declared he does not believe people can walk righteously, ever, so this is why I
have responded as I did. You say this is a false conclusion, but if this is his declared position
there is nothing false about it.
If I want to emphasis failure, ie you cannot walk in sinless perfection, I will say yes you
walk ok this second, but not 27/7 365 days of the year.
But if the argument is walking righteously is our goal, failure may or may not come occasionally,
but our hearts are in righteousness, then this is our focus.
Now dc has declared he does not believe people can walk righteously, ever, so this is why I
have responded as I did. You say this is a false conclusion, but if this is his declared position
there is nothing false about it.
I find it interesting people say I am wrong about lots of things, yet I pick up
statements and positions quickly, and they mainly prove 100% correct.
It is why I often wonder why people say I have got it wrong, say I am slandering etc.
I get the impression it is because one is seen as defining something they do not like.
I get told I am a works salvationist but in their mind and definition I might be but theologically
I am not. It is like calling me a sinless perfectionist, when I am walking in faith that we can
attain to Christ walk, not that I have achieved it.
But if one is very accurate about where someone is, the defense is to paint the opposition
in a equally difficult position. I understand this desire, and if it was true, I would say fair
enough, but as it is not, I cannot agree. But please do not take it more seriously than this,
because were we are does not define where we get to, and Christ is always willing to work
with us, as long as we are prepared to listen to Him. Amen
statements and positions quickly, and they mainly prove 100% correct.
It is why I often wonder why people say I have got it wrong, say I am slandering etc.
I get the impression it is because one is seen as defining something they do not like.
I get told I am a works salvationist but in their mind and definition I might be but theologically
I am not. It is like calling me a sinless perfectionist, when I am walking in faith that we can
attain to Christ walk, not that I have achieved it.
But if one is very accurate about where someone is, the defense is to paint the opposition
in a equally difficult position. I understand this desire, and if it was true, I would say fair
enough, but as it is not, I cannot agree. But please do not take it more seriously than this,
because were we are does not define where we get to, and Christ is always willing to work
with us, as long as we are prepared to listen to Him. Amen
You're right about one thing..... God looks at the heart..... not the man who implies he can by judging.
Did you not read that I was the accused in that discussion? That DC was doing the judging?
I noticed you said NOTHING about DC's judgment & name calling, which BTW he was totally wrong about because he couldn't see my heart.
Scripture confirms also that christians shouldn't be a respecter of persons.
If you read your own writing you could see that you are.
Next time, just say what you mean, instead of acting like a teacher relaying truth.
Did you not read that I was the accused in that discussion? That DC was doing the judging?
I noticed you said NOTHING about DC's judgment & name calling, which BTW he was totally wrong about because he couldn't see my heart.
Scripture confirms also that christians shouldn't be a respecter of persons.
If you read your own writing you could see that you are.
Next time, just say what you mean, instead of acting like a teacher relaying truth.
A
Your view on others position is NOT 100% correct anymore than their view that you teach sinless perfection or works salvation is true.
The only view you seem to be able to statement is your own and even then your communication ability is vague and often unclear because you like redefining words like G777.
The only view you seem to be able to statement is your own and even then your communication ability is vague and often unclear because you like redefining words like G777.
Amen. I do not want to be associated with anything you support.Read what John writes
"Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work."
2 John 1:11
I want nothing of your wicked work or who you support.
I do not want your blood counted against me.
When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.
Ezek 3:18
To follow such teaching is to partake in the same thing.
So everyone who partakes in such things, I want nothing to do with them. It is that simple.