The Rapture

[MattforJesus]

Is this a mid-trib belief? I ask only seeking info...I am not seeking to bait you.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

At the end of the three and one half years tribulation shall the resurrection happen,but many shall not make it to the resurrection,which the first three and one half years of the seven years is not really part of the tribulation,for salavation is still available to the world,and the time that God is given the world space to repent,and turn to Him,but they fail to do so,even when disaster after disaster happens they will not turn to God,but keep trying to achieve peace by their own efforts,so God gives them the man of sin to rule over them.

The reasoning could be that God is love,and will not give up on the world until they give up on them,and does not want any excuses from the world,so God will allow them to persecute the Christians for three and one half years,showing without a doubt that they want nothing to do with their God,or with Jesus their Savior,and the saints as a witness to the truth at that time,for even during that time of persecution they do not deny Jesus.

For this time,and kingdom,is different from any other time,or kingdom,for this is the end of people's rulership on earth,and the time that God ends this sin business on earth,so God will give them a greater witness concerning the truth at this time,for it is the end,and during the first three and one half years the chance to turn to Him,but they do not,so God gives them the man of sin to rule over them,and will allow the saints to be persecuted for three and one half years by the beast,and then cometh the end when the Son shall deliver the kingdom to the Father.

 

[Bladerunner]

I am not a full preterist, only a partial preterist. But certainly some of Revelation has occurred and some is taking place NOW.

A lot of the Prophecies of the Bible allude to other events that already happened...John wrote revelaton around 95AD..... 25 years after the Jerusalem destruction. in Rev 4:1"........ Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." Now if this was written in 95AD,,,, Must happen in the hereafter (future). and then Jesus tells John in rev 1:19......"19Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this. Again the date of this writing is 95AD. He did not write any thing of the past although as many prophecies do, allude to other events of the same order.

Take what Jesus told Mat 24:15//"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand" He was also speaking of the AoD (167BC) [/B] in Rev 11:31 that daniel prophesied as well. Both different (one standing in the holy place and the other ".......they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


God is restraining Satan or the whole world would be taken by him. But not on a physical chain. God allows the right amount of restraint.

Satan is Prince of the World... The Holy Spirit which is present everywhere, is restraining the evil of mankind. When that restraint is removed, I don't think we CAN or are able to visualized just how evil man can be, even with ISIS doing it thing today. As far as the Chain goes, the Bible is explicit about that. It also states that Satan will/cannot temp mankind during the 1000 years. rev 20:3..".......set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more"



So you don't think the devil is restrained?

I think mankind is restrained. If you will remember, the story of Job, Satan had to get God's permission to kill his family, etc. therefore, the evil of Satan is within men and they do the killing. They are the ones who are restrained.


Strange then that they all rebelled at the end? LOL

Think about it NOW! Mankind (this fleshly body) is inherently sinful or evil..... I think you will agree to that. Through-out the centuries from Adam and Eve to present, Satan has been blamed. During the 1000 years, many children will be born. as we see in a Prophecy that at the end of the 1000 years, satan will be loosed and another Gog/Magog insurrection will take place using those who do not believe (mostly ancestors of the ones who lived through Daniels 70th week.). In this one, when they surround Jerusalem, God the father will take care of them once and for all including throwing Satan into the lake of Fire.

Those that have fallen to the DARK side have no one and NO SATAN to blame...It is their and only their actions.




Revelation 6? Although most of it was yesterday.

Who was or is the antichrist......if were yesterday.....Have we seen a leader that has control over all countries and please do not say the UN.

While one might argue that the second (red) horse is war that has taken the peace from the Earth.....There is still peace in many areas of the Earth. In fact, the place where peace is not readily available is in the Middle east. There is a lot of threatening but no cigar YET?

Now the third horse (black) tells us that famine will occur apparently worldwide. We have no famine in major countries (all at one time) YET? Pay special attention to the phrase "and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine." rev 6:6 This alludes to the economy... the rich, affluent people, The Antichrist does not want the economies of the world to go bad because when they are bad, you cannot control them..

The fourth horse, (pale) of Death and HELL...........These are the two that make a covenant with Israel in order to rebuild their temple. These two were given Power ---- OVER "a fourth part of the earth," ; to kill with a sword; to kill with Hunger; to kill with Death; and to kill with the beast of the earth. While it does not say they killed a 1/4 part of the earth it certainly alludes to that.


The fifth seal, (no Horse),, there were slain souls under the Altar in the name of God....This possibly could be construed as happening today but it is only happening in certain isolated areas of the Earth. While the US is experiencing the Beatdown of Christians (to speak), it has so far not begun to kill them. And as a point against the 70 AD period, No TRUE Christians were killed because they had heard Jesus, remembered and left Jerusalem long before the final siege.

The 6th seal (rev 6:12), I believe starts Daniel's 70th week. All the cosmic signs are there and Mother nature doubles down. The Kings (leaders of countries) and the rich (preppers) that were hidden in caves, are not there so their are kidden from God's Wrath.

Notice all the while in Rev 1-3,,the church is use around 19 times. In rev 4:1 to 22, the Church is not mentioned.....Well maybe that is not true....There are twenty -four elders that were not there before and are now. Now they are not angels,,,, see rev 5:11

While the allusion I spoke of earlier, in REv. 6 there are some allusions to 70 AD but that is it... Unlike the the prophecies in Mat 24, for both periods of time. --70 AD and Future TODAY 6/3/2017

Thanks Valant for asking.
Blade\

 

[SovereignGrace]

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

At the end of the three and one half years tribulation shall the resurrection happen,but many shall not make it to the resurrection,which the first three and one half years of the seven years is not really part of the tribulation,for salavation is still available to the world,and the time that God is given the world space to repent,and turn to Him,but they fail to do so,even when disaster after disaster happens they will not turn to God,but keep trying to achieve peace by their own efforts,so God gives them the man of sin to rule over them.

The reasoning could be that God is love,and will not give up on the world until they give up on them,and does not want any excuses from the world,so God will allow them to persecute the Christians for three and one half years,showing without a doubt that they want nothing to do with their God,or with Jesus their Savior,and the saints as a witness to the truth at that time,for even during that time of persecution they do not deny Jesus.

For this time,and kingdom,is different from any other time,or kingdom,for this is the end of people's rulership on earth,and the time that God ends this sin business on earth,so God will give them a greater witness concerning the truth at this time,for it is the end,and during the first three and one half years the chance to turn to Him,but they do not,so God gives them the man of sin to rule over them,and will allow the saints to be persecuted for three and one half years by the beast,and then cometh the end when the Son shall deliver the kingdom to the Father.

A 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed...that and a few '.....' to make it the necessary character limit to make a post.

 

[VCO]

Who was or is the antichrist......if were yesterday.....Have we seen a leader that has control over all countries and please do not say the UN.

While one might argue that the second (red) horse is war that has taken the peace from the Earth.....There is still peace in many areas of the Earth. In fact, the place where peace is not readily available is in the Middle east. There is a lot of threatening but no cigar YET?

Now the third horse (black) tells us that famine will occur apparently worldwide. We have no famine in major countries (all at one time) YET? Pay special attention to the phrase "and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine." rev 6:6 This alludes to the economy... the rich, affluent people, The Antichrist does not want the economies of the world to go bad because when they are bad, you cannot control them..

The fourth horse, (pale) of Death and HELL...........These are the two that make a covenant with Israel in order to rebuild their temple. These two were given Power ---- OVER "a fourth part of the earth," ; to kill with a sword; to kill with Hunger; to kill with Death; and to kill with the beast of the earth. While it does not say they killed a 1/4 part of the earth it certainly alludes to that.


The fifth seal, (no Horse),, there were slain souls under the Altar in the name of God....This possibly could be construed as happening today but it is only happening in certain isolated areas of the Earth. While the US is experiencing the Beatdown of Christians (to speak), it has so far not begun to kill them. And as a point against the 70 AD period, No TRUE Christians were killed because they had heard Jesus, remembered and left Jerusalem long before the final siege.

The 6th seal (rev 6:12), I believe starts Daniel's 70th week. All the cosmic signs are there and Mother nature doubles down. The Kings (leaders of countries) and the rich (preppers) that were hidden in caves, are not there so their are kidden from God's Wrath.

Notice all the while in Rev 1-3,,the church is use around 19 times. In rev 4:1 to 22, the Church is not mentioned.....Well maybe that is not true....There are twenty -four elders that were not there before and are now. Now they are not angels,,,, see rev 5:11

While the allusion I spoke of earlier, in REv. 6 there are some allusions to 70 AD but that is it... Unlike the the prophecies in Mat 24, for both periods of time. --70 AD and Future TODAY 6/3/2017

Thanks Valant for asking.
Blade\

Better yet, where is the multitude of beheaded martyred saints?

 

[Bladerunner]

Better yet, where is the multitude of beheaded martyred saints?

Sorry, thought that was answered...The Martyred saints are under the altar...The tribulations (Daniels (70th week) has not started yet because they ask God how long it will take to avenge their deaths. They are apparently in the Gap period between the Rapture and the Tribulatons (daniels 70th week). His answer: rev 6:11.."....it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

The fellowservants and Brethern will be the so-called "tribulation Saints",,,They are the Multitudes you speak of. They too have to die in the name of Jesus to be where they are at.....notice that they are carrying palms in their hands and singing a song----NOT Aasking how long. They know how long because these are the saints martyred during Daniel's 70th week.

 

[popeye]

Sorry, thought that was answered...The Martyred saints are under the altar...The tribulations (Daniels (70th week) has not started yet because they ask God how long it will take to avenge their deaths. They are apparently in the Gap period between the Rapture and the Tribulatons (daniels 70th week). His answer: rev 6:11.."....it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

The fellowservants and Brethern will be the so-called "tribulation Saints",,,They are the Multitudes you speak of. They too have to die in the name of Jesus to be where they are at.....notice that they are carrying palms in their hands and singing a song----NOT Aasking how long. They know how long because these are the saints martyred during Daniel's 70th week.

The " tribulation saints",the 5 foolish virgins are before the throne,not under the altar. They are the innumerable number before the throne.

 

[Muzungu256]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYDaFsRkrY

do you think these things have something to do with the coming of the Lord approaching fast????????????

 

[valiant]

Who was or is the antichrist......if were yesterday.....Have we seen a leader that has control over all countries and please do not say the UN.

there will never be one. you need to learn how scripture uses language.

While one might argue that the second (red) horse is war that has taken the peace from the Earth.....There is still peace in many areas of the Earth. In fact, the place where peace is not readily available is in the Middle east.

The red horse has marched since 1st century as Jesus said.

Now the third horse (black) tells us that famine will occur apparently worldwide

.

There is no mention of worldwide You read it into it. It is the famines prophesied by Jesus.

We have no famine in major countries (all at one time) YET? Pay special attention to the phrase "and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine." rev 6:6 This alludes to the economy... the rich, affluent people, The Antichrist does not want the economies of the world to go bad because when they are bad, you cannot control them..

No worldwide famine is mentioned, just famines were the back rider goes..

The fourth horse, (pale) of Death and HELL...........These are the two that make a covenant with Israel in order to rebuild their temple.

Rubbish. This horseman marched long ago as Jesus forecast. It is continuing history. And there is no mention of a covenant Israel to rebuild the Temple. Dream on,

These two were given Power ---- OVER "a fourth part of the earth," ; to kill with a sword; to kill with Hunger; to kill with Death; and to kill with the beast of the earth. While it does not say they killed a 1/4 part of the earth it certainly alludes to that.

LOL who says? They marched along time ago. There have been massive war and famines regularly through out history.

The fifth seal, (no Horse),, there were slain souls under the Altar in the name of God....This possibly could be construed as happening today but it is only happening in certain isolated areas of the Earth.

LOL couldn't you dream up a horse? This refers to the ancient martyrs, and then on til the present days. Isolated parts of the earth? You are kidding me.

While the US is experiencing the Beatdown of Christians (to speak), it has so far not begun to kill them. And as a point against the 70 AD period, No TRUE Christians were killed because they had heard Jesus, remembered and left Jerusalem long before the final siege

.


Where does it mention Jerusalem? You make up fairy tales. They were 'worldwide' martyrs commencing in 1st century.

The 6th seal (rev 6:12), I believe starts Daniel's 70th week.

Daniel's 70th week followed on from the 69th week. The sixth seal refers to the second coming.

ther nature doubles down. The Kings (leaders of countries) and the rich (preppers) that were hidden in caves, are not there so their are kidden from God's Wrath.

LOL the point is that they can't hide from God's wrath.

Notice all the while in Rev 1-3,,the church is use around 19 times.

Come off it. The church is mentioned in the form of believers.

In rev 4:1 to 22, the Church is not mentioned.....Well maybe that is not true....

Honest at last!!!!

There are twenty -four elders that were not there before and are now. Now they are not angels,,,, see rev 5:11

No but they are heavenly beings.

 

[samuel23]

It is funny how pre-trib folks come to the bible with their mind already made up that there is a pre-trib rapture of the church. Then they use every possible means of manipulation of scripture in order to make the bible appear to teach a pre-trib rapture. If a pre-tribber, just once, put their prejudice in favor of the pre-trib rapture aside, and just read and believed the bible, they would find that the bible clearly teaches a post-trib rapture of the church. Jesus clearly taught a post-trib rapture of the church, literally describing it in detail. Paul taught that the church could not be raptured until after the revealing of the Antichrist and the Antichrist appears during the tribulation. John in Rev 6 had the return of Christ after the tribulation of the four horse men, and then later those who had came through that tribulation around the throne of God. It is all there to read.

 

[VCO]

Sorry, thought that was answered...The Martyred saints are under the altar...The tribulations (Daniels (70th week) has not started yet because they ask God how long it will take to avenge their deaths. They are apparently in the Gap period between the Rapture and the Tribulatons (daniels 70th week). His answer: rev 6:11.."....it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

The fellowservants and Brethern will be the so-called "tribulation Saints",,,They are the Multitudes you speak of. They too have to die in the name of Jesus to be where they are at.....notice that they are carrying palms in their hands and singing a song----NOT Aasking how long. They know how long because these are the saints martyred during Daniel's 70th week.

You misunderstood, where is the historical record of the MASS BEHEADING of genuine believers, since they think it all has already happened back in history. You and I know every from Rev. 4:1 through Rev. 22:21 is ALL FUTURE PROPHECY.

 

[VCO]

It is funny how pre-trib folks come to the bible with their mind already made up that there is a pre-trib rapture of the church. Then they use every possible means of manipulation of scripture in order to make the bible appear to teach a pre-trib rapture. If a pre-tribber, just once, put their prejudice in favor of the pre-trib rapture aside, and just read and believed the bible, they would find that the bible clearly teaches a post-trib rapture of the church. Jesus clearly taught a post-trib rapture of the church, literally describing it in detail. Paul taught that the church could not be raptured until after the revealing of the Antichrist and the Antichrist appears during the tribulation. John in Rev 6 had the return of Christ after the tribulation of the four horse men, and then later those who had came through that tribulation around the throne of God. It is all there to read.

Funny how non-pre-trib people, do not have the Holy Spirit teaching them these deep truths about our LORD GOD, WHO GIVES US THAT SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING.


Proverbs 3:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[valiant]

You misunderstood, where is the historical record of the MASS BEHEADING of genuine believers, since they think it all has already happened back in history. You and I know every from Rev. 4:1 through Rev. 22:21 is ALL FUTURE PROPHECY.

In the Roman empire of John's day? It is NOT all future prophecy except to John

 

[valiant]

Funny how non-pre-trib people, do not have the Holy Spirit teaching them these deep truths about our LORD GOD, WHO GIVES US THAT SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING.

LOL LOL LOL You mean the holy Darby LOL

Proverbs 3:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

You would do well to take heed. Not to your own and not to Darby's understanding

[/1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

LOL you dare to claim superior knowledge to Christians who see differently, many far more spiritually gifted than you are? .

[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

But we are NOT without the Spirit. And we can discern as well as you.

15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

I have never heard such drivel in all my life. You have no more of the mind of Christ than I have,

 

[MattforJesus]

Some people say God would not allow the saints to go through the tribulation,but that does not make logical sense,for that would mean God would not of allowed the saints to go through any persecution,or trouble,throughout the history of the Church.

And if they say the saints will be gone when the tribulation happens,then that means the tribulation is for the world,and it must be coming from God,so why would the saints worry if they went through it or not,if it is not for them.

And who do they think the tribulation if for,it is not for the world,but the saints.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and take the mark of the beast,and then He will put them down.

So if God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,then He will not go against them until the 7 years period is over.

Also during the first three and one half years of the tribulation,repentance,and salvation,is available to the world,so the saints will remain on earth during that time.

Also the first three and one half years is not part of the tribulation towards the saints other than the international law that states,it is a hate crime to try to convert someone to your religion,punishable in the international court system,for all religions are vaild for spiritual evolution,and whatever path a person wants to take is valid,and they want peace at that time so much that they will leave the Christians alone,as long as they are not trying to convert someone to their religion,but then they will let the authorities handle that.

Which is what sparks the religion of Islam for they are stifling their religion from spreading,for they have to keep quiet about it,and not try to extend it,saying they are exclusive to the other religions,and will cause the world and the religion of Islam to clash,which the man of sin is working at that time before he claims to be God,and he is looked upon as a great man of peace,and has authority to a great degree,and nuclear weapons devastate their nations.

The beast appears and claims to be God,and has power to continue for the last three and one half years,which if God were going against the beast then he would not have power to continue,and rule,which he has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and shall make war against the saints,and prevail against them,and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years,and he shall destroy the mighty and holy people,and when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then the resurrection shall happen.

Which the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ,until there is a falling away first,new age movement unifying the religions,and the man of sin claims to be God.

God is not going against the world for the 7 years period,so the tribulation is not for them,but it is for the saints,and saints have been persecuted ever since the start of the Church,and persecuton is persecution,and it is the greatest persecution ever of the saints,but that does not mean it is worse in pain,and whatever they dish out,but it is on a bigger level for the saints will be persecuted world wide.

I believe that God will lessen the persecution that the beast dishes out,compared to the persecution before that,and will not allow the beast to torture them,or any other painful thing,but only allow him to behead the saints,for the Bible speaks that it is the way they perish.

 

[popeye]

Some people say God would not allow the saints to go through the tribulation,but that does not make logical sense,for that would mean God would not of allowed the saints to go through any persecution,or trouble,throughout the history of the Church.

And if they say the saints will be gone when the tribulation happens,then that means the tribulation is for the world,and it must be coming from God,so why would the saints worry if they went through it or not,if it is not for them.

And who do they think the tribulation if for,it is not for the world,but the saints.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and take the mark of the beast,and then He will put them down.

So if God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,then He will not go against them until the 7 years period is over.

Also during the first three and one half years of the tribulation,repentance,and salvation,is available to the world,so the saints will remain on earth during that time.

Also the first three and one half years is not part of the tribulation towards the saints other than the international law that states,it is a hate crime to try to convert someone to your religion,punishable in the international court system,for all religions are vaild for spiritual evolution,and whatever path a person wants to take is valid,and they want peace at that time so much that they will leave the Christians alone,as long as they are not trying to convert someone to their religion,but then they will let the authorities handle that.

Which is what sparks the religion of Islam for they are stifling their religion from spreading,for they have to keep quiet about it,and not try to extend it,saying they are exclusive to the other religions,and will cause the world and the religion of Islam to clash,which the man of sin is working at that time before he claims to be God,and he is looked upon as a great man of peace,and has authority to a great degree,and nuclear weapons devastate their nations.

The beast appears and claims to be God,and has power to continue for the last three and one half years,which if God were going against the beast then he would not have power to continue,and rule,which he has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and shall make war against the saints,and prevail against them,and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years,and he shall destroy the mighty and holy people,and when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then the resurrection shall happen.

Which the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ,until there is a falling away first,new age movement unifying the religions,and the man of sin claims to be God.

God is not going against the world for the 7 years period,so the tribulation is not for them,but it is for the saints,and saints have been persecuted ever since the start of the Church,and persecuton is persecution,and it is the greatest persecution ever of the saints,but that does not mean it is worse in pain,and whatever they dish out,but it is on a bigger level for the saints will be persecuted world wide.

I believe that God will lessen the persecution that the beast dishes out,compared to the persecution before that,and will not allow the beast to torture them,or any other painful thing,but only allow him to behead the saints,for the Bible speaks that it is the way they perish.

The GT is not comparable to past tribulations.

None were required to take a mark or die.

The 4 horsemen were never released either.

It specifically says " tribulation such as the world has never seen,nor ever will see...."

The AC receives power to overcome the saints. It says ALL DIE refusing the mark.

 

[samuel23]

The bible does not say that all die that refuse the mark of the Beast...you added that to support your agenda, it says that he had power to put to death those who would not worship the Beast. Hitler had power to kill all those who opposed his reign and he did put many to death but not all because some escaped. Jesus described the same thing and described the persecution where many would be put to death, then Jesus said that after that tribulation He would return in the sky and gather believers from all over the world, so obviously the Antichrist did not kill all believers...of course you know that, however you chose to manipulate scripture in order to promote your agenda.

 

[Bladerunner]

The " tribulation saints",the 5 foolish virgins are before the throne,not under the altar. They are the innumerable number before the throne.

Yes,,,having read my post again, an error was apparent.. I guess my brain runs faster than my typing.
It should have read.

Original:
Sorry, thought that was answered...The Martyred saints are under the altar...The tribulations (Daniels (70th week) has not started yet because they ask God how long it will take to avenge their deaths. They are apparently in the Gap period between the Rapture and the Tribulatons (daniels 70th week). His answer: rev 6:11.."....it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Corrected:
Sorry, thought that was answered...The Martyred saints are under the altar...The tribulations (Daniels (70th week) has not started yet. Why the Martyred Saints? Because they ask God how long it will take to avenge their deaths. They do not know the time line. Thus Daniel's 70th week has not started YET. They are apparently in the Gap period between the Rapture and the Tribulatons (daniels 70th week). His answer to the Martyred Saints: rev 6:11.."....it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."


Hope this is more coherant? Must have had a blond moment? My apologies

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

I said, I'm a partial Preterist. Not everything happened in the first century, but far more than most realize. Answer me this, how could Christ say the below if it wasn't true? Here comes a spiritualized answer, if you answer at all, LOL. Now be nice, I just gave you a "like."

[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Ah....Matthew 16:28... Did Jesus lie or did he tell them he was coming back.....during their time????????

First lets get it to the KJV...Mat 16:28.."28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Now lets tear it apart.... "Verily I say unto you" meaning the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the Truth.

"There be some standing here" WHo was there.....His disciples including Peter and John plus others that came to listen.

"which shall not taste of death" Shall not DIE?

"till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." The second coming of Jesus...2nd advent.

Question: If you had a jar of change and you know there is a certain coin (lets say a Mercury Dime) within that jar. If you told me that within that Jar was a Mercury Dime would you be lying to me. NO --It might be hard to believe but it is "ONE among many..." as is John in the company of many others.


Did Not JOHN see the 2nd coming of Jesus while he was in heaven? Rev 4-22

You ask for its meaning and here it is. Jesus told them the truth. There were some of them that would not die before seeing Him come back.

Sorry,,,It was not meant to take place in 70AD.........

I always try to be nice and thanks for the Like......"Now be nice, I just gave you a "like.""

Blake

 

[VCO]

LOL LOL LOL You mean the holy Darby LOL


. . .

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”


Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
[SUP]7 [/SUP] “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.

 

[VCO]

[SUP]
[/SUP]1 Corinthians 2:14-16 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

I have never heard such drivel in all my life.
You have no more of the mind of Christ than I have,

John 14:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.