Not By Works

[Katy-follower]

And lets emphasise this concept with this fabulous summary statement by Paul from Eph 2:8-9

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

And also v10: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"

 

[Katy-follower]

1 Corinthians 1:18-31

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord

 

[BillG]

[video=youtube;raplvZFysjU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raplvZFysjU&app=desktop[/video]​

​

Thanks muchly

 

[graceNpeace]

And also v10: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"

...Indeed!

 

[Katy-follower]

Fran.....

Since the scriptures say that one cannot enter the Kingdom unless they are born again, I'm curious to know your belief as to how a person is born again (John 3:1-8)

 

[PeterJens]

My friends liars lie. The truth is they cannot answer morality because they have none.
There are morality lists throughout scripture, but they are missing from the preaching
of these pastors, because they believe that is law and not grace.

To be lawless does mean you can do what you like. As some say, you will be spiritual
so your will want to do the right thing, except one is an unrepentant sinner, so you will
live like the world.

This is just the same as any religion of the world, the broad way to hell.

I will paraphrase some comments:
You are the lion of Judah, fighting the enemy.
I will never compromise with these legalists
Satan has blinded you
You are going to hell and taking others with you
Your good works are disgusting
All sin is forgiven in the world
You only repent once when coming to faith
Once counted saved whatever you do it can never be lost

Emotional ethics run groups. So good works, evil. Righteousness evil,
Conviction of sin, evil. The law, evil. How long before worldly behaviour
is good, ie greed, self indulgence, having your own success dreams,
wow, already there.

How many will actually read scripture? Very few, just to confirm what the preacher
says.

And the real success is to make this into a money machine.
There are the totally naive, who will assume the best.

People play on assumption. This is why I laugh after providing a
detailed statement of faith, silence on morality, says everything.

Ariel said it has been repeated about morality, but not by dc.
Why is he so so so silent.

 

[PeterJens]

I know....blows my mind...I have never promoted sin or a lifestyle of sin....I have been honest about the verses that speak to sin in a believer's life and if all knew me and my life they would see this clearly...a story...After the Marine Corp i slipped into a 3 year run with drugs, immorality etc....I was raised in church, had trusted Christ as my savior and had not been in chruch or cracked a bible in like 7 years...my grandmother never gave up on me and prayed daily for me...one day out of the blue I told her I needed to get back in church....I started going and hearing the word started getting convicted by my lifestyle.....one day out of the blue I went down before the church...about 550 people in atgendabce, and on radio and cable channel 6...I APOLOGIZED FOR THE REPROACH I HAD BROUGHT UPON THE CHURCH, MY LIFESTYLE AND MY OPEN SIN....I know full well my weaknesses and my strenghts...I am a saved child of God who has areas that I stand strong in by Jesus and I have weaknesses that I fail in, but have always acknolwedged who I am and that without JESUS WE ARE ALL LOST.....my salvation is secure in Christ, this does not mean I will not fail in some form or fashion.........

Let me be brutal. Repentance is about sorrow for sin, brokenness, desiring to walk righteously.
So this in the grace world is apologize for reproach brought on the church.

Your a nice guy. That is not following Jesus. Picking up your cross daily and following Jesus
is, with a loving open heart. It is obvious to me being nice and having faith in Christ the nice
God is enough for heaven.

Pass the bucket please.

 

[PeterJens]

On the day of judgement there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
All the laughter, disdain, mockery, success, lack of shame will be gone.

Then all will be still and the King will appear.
None shall stand before Him, all will bow.

Get right with the King before He brings justice to you.

 

[PeterJens]

The new righteousness.
I am a thief, it is a hard life, but you got to make a living.
I am an adulterer, but the girls are so cute who can resist.
Wow that car, I just love it, I will just take it, I am only human.

It is confessing sin, being honest, and doing what you all do
but lie about, haha. Caught you.

This is just slavery to sin and living in the world, and of the world.
You are not a child of heaven if this is you. Walking in love and
righteousness is, except I suspect many have never seen this.

 

[PeterJens]

The law of Christ.

Paul refers to this a few times. I was unaware of the term, and used moral law as my summary.
Paul is saying Jesus took the 10 commandments along with some other principles and created
this moral outlook. It is not as complete as a body of work like the law of Moses, but it's form
founds the definitions of righteousness.

It takes time and study to see these things work through our hearts and minds, but it becomes
clear we are a people of love and understanding.

Love is our core principle founded on the love expressed through the cross.
It is here where things are most bleak yet profound we find true salvation and fellowship with
the King.

It is why such emotion and condemnation against following Gods word is so strange.
Read the sermon on the mount, read Ephesians and you will see Gods heart.

I speak because of Gods word, nothing else. Read and listen, this is your salvation.

 

[FranC]

Thank you Ariel. Do you have any pets? My daughter loves her doggies She works as a vet assistant... when I was much younger, really quite young actually, I thought I wanted to work with animals, but it occurred to me eventually that being a vet or something similar would mean I was dealing with sick, injured, and dying animals, and I found that disturbing enough, that after three years of wanting to be a vet, I changed my mind at eight years old and decided to be a social worker. That sat well with me for about five more years, until around the age of thirteen, it was too apparent to me how messed up people were, and how powerless I was to fix them, so again I changed my vocational ideas were rearranged.

I am really proud of my daughter for taking such good care of her pets. Maybe when I retire, and that gets closer all the time, I will work with sick and injured animals, helping to restore them to a healthy happy joy filled life where they are loved and cared for. I have seen many videos recently about animal rescues... this is one of my favourites... the shelter worker wrote and performed the song on this video story...

[video=youtube;QNrq5Lw4OQM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNrq5Lw4OQM&t=21s[/video]

Oh Good Morning Magenta,

It's nice to know you love dogs and animals so much.
Maybe one day you'll love humans just as much?
Give it a try.
It feels good.

 

[FranC]

Dare I say it, but it is obvious is it not.
God is not going to choose people who reject Him because that would be
pointless. His whole reason for choosing people is because they will respond.

Hi PeterJens

Your post refers to Romans 8:29-30

"For whom He FOREKNEW, He also predestined to become CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON"...

Those that are called to be conformed to the image of Jesus , God foreknew.

 

[blue_ladybug]

So much for you trying to encourage me, Peter. You can't even answer a question that I've asked you 3 times. :/

 

[FranC]

No it's not obvious at all. God can and apparently did according to the bible, choose people and ORDAINED them to bring forth fruit.

John 15:16 KJV
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Further, God chose us from the beginning FOR salvation by the sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth. Correct me with biblical evidence if I'm wrong, but we have NOTHING to do with our salvation. What are your thoughts? Did God choose us in his sovereign will or did we choose him?

2 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Most of the entire N.T. is aimed at believers.
The bible does not contradict itself.
We know that throughout the bible it is our choice to be with God.
John 3:16
Ephesians 2:8
Acts 2:21

I see no limitations on the verses I've posted. You cannot take ONE verse and make a doctrine out of it.
There is a concept in the bible, which is why we sholdn't even be picking out verses here and there.
The concept is that in Christianity GOD reaches out to man, not the other way around.
If something sounds different, it probably means something we don't understand.
Jesus chose us. He chose us to be like Him, he chose us to be the firstfriuts.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Second of all, salvation is not by sanctification.
Salvation is by justification.
Another concept that is important to know.

God chooses EVERYONE.
We must respond.
1 Tmothy 2:3-4
2 Peter 3:9

We have nothing to do with our salvation,
but everything to do with our sanctification.

Study up on it. It cannot be done here.

 

[FranC]

Its impossible to be doing nothing, your only fooling yourself....You understand partially Philippians 2-13, but ignore verse 12, both are active dynamics in salvation...its man WORKING TOGETHER with God to achieve a relationship of love that can by NO MEANS be achieved through any other fashion...The apostle Paul said on 3 occasions that we are workers together with HIM..

Amen Willybob

We are justified by grace alone and saved.
Ephesians 2:8

Our relationship with God is then a two-way Street.
After justification comes sanctification.
This is done by co.operating with God in doing His will.
Titus 2:14-15

(and many Others)

 

[FranC]

In Philippians 2:12, notice that it says, "work out" your salvation not "work for" your salvation. This cannot refer to salvation by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit in the process of ongoing sanctification. Verse 13 continues, after a comma, "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

WORK OUT
is different than
WORK FOR?????

I'm a major in English.
Could you please explain to me and Others here, the DIFFERENCE between the two.
In practical terms, PLEASE.

Thanks.

(maybe the Greek could be of some help here...)

 

[FranC]

In Philippians 2:12, notice that it says, "work out" your salvation not "work for" your salvation. This cannot refer to salvation by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit in the process of ongoing sanctification. Verse 13 continues, after a comma, "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

P.S. MMD

You Do allude to the believer's RESPONSIBILITY for ONGOING SANCTIFICATION.

Then you say it is God working in us for this --- to will and to act.

SO, I repeat my question: Does this mean that if I fail and fall into sin it is GOD'S shortcoming and not MINE???

 

[FranC]

Kind of like you...continuing to spew a works based pseudo salvation that can be lost right?

Ummmm. Here's my post.
Is your answer above the best you can do?
No wonder you get so upset with those who know more than you...
and know the truth whereas you only think you do...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


You see Dcon,
here's your problem.
You've become like a parrot --- you just keep repeating the same stuff over and over again.
But do not supply any substance.
I felt it was important to say this...

Here's my post to which you're replying:

Originally Posted by FranC View Post

So you're answer is NO.
We are NOT to do works.

Then why did JESUS say this:

John 15:14-15 Amplified Bible (AMP)

14 You are my friends if you keep on doing what I command you.

Now read your reply to me.

I don't hear Jesus saying anything about salvation.
I don't believe He ever said that word once. Could you post if He did?

What He DID say was how we are to BEHAVE (haven't seen much good behavior here by a few)
And how we are to DO (which means works)

Mathew 5:2-10
Mathew 5:2-11
Mathew 6:48
Mathew 7:5
Mathew 7:21
Mathew 7.24
Mathew 15:11
Mathew 19:28
Mathew 22:21
Mathew 22:37-40
Mathew 25:35-36

Jesus said:
IF YOU KEEP ON DOING WHAT I COMMANDED YOU.

This is a command. Not a request.
It means if you don't do it.... Jesus will not be too pleased.

You should read those verses.

 

[FranC]

Not hardly pal...Jesus saves and then works through us as a living sacrifice.....the root produces the fruit not the branches....your false theology rejects the clear evidences from both Creation and the Word

I'm sorry Dcon.

You got it backwards.

God does not work through us as a living sacrifice.

WE are to present OURSELVES a living sacrifice.
Romans 12:1

Maybe this is the problem?
You have your doctrine backwards...

God doesn NOT do everything for you.
YOU have to do some things yourself.
Not the least of which is being a nice person.
That would seem to me to be one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:17
1 Corinthians 15:2

 

[FranC]

Blue you can forget it...the workers for twist everything that is said......seems very familiar...oh yeah....the one who twisted what was said in the garden...Jesus spoke about the Pharisees, who believed in a working for way, doing the same works as their father <---with a small f

I'm liking Titus 2:14-15 these days.
Read it.