Not By Works

[Ariel82]

no what is that.

Re-read the post you responded to, I linked an article. At church learning about "Canine Angels: saving dogs, serving vets"

 

[PeterJens]

I just get "Be still and KNOW that I AM GOD."

This one phrase I have repeated many times in my life and let myself rest.
In His time things will come to pass, there is no hurry, for the lessons that
need to be learnt will be learnt, and if not, they do not matter.

 

[Grace777x70]

I just get "Be still and KNOW that I AM GOD."

Amen....Where the rubber meets the road is - What does " Be still and "know" that I am God mean?" How do we work that out in our minds in our every day lives?

I believe we could plump the depths of that for a whole life time and still not even come close to what it all means because I believe that God is so vast - that the knowledge of Him is inexhaustible. He keeps "expanding" - if that makes sense.

Sometimes it is hard to put into words the things that we know in our spirit where we are joined as one spirit with the Lord forever.

 

[Ariel82]

What does "naffed" mean?

 

[Seohce]

MMD
This is what you say:

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (just like our works) reveal the state of our hearts. Words will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness.


I sure hope Dcon is reading along...

Amen to that sis FranC and if i may add...

Christians shouldn’t be just mere talkers and hearers.


1 Corinthians 4:19-20 But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.


Romans 2:12-14 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,


WHEN GOD COMMANDED US TO LOVE, HE DID NOT WANT US TO JUST SAY IT BUT FOR US TO DO IT.


1 John 4:8,16,21 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS. And his commands are not burdensome,


IS LOVE JUST A MERE WORD? AS IT WAS SAID “GOD IS LOVE” AND “THE WORD IS GOD”(1john 4:8&16)


BOTH LOVE AND THE WORD ARE LIVING AND WORKING.


1 Corinthians 13:4-7 love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.


Hebrews 4:12,14 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


IF THE LOVE AND THE WORD OF GOD ABIDES IN US, CAN’T IT SAVE US?


BOTH LOVE AND THE WORD IS THE POWER THAT MOVES AND LEADS US TO DO HIS WORK(phil 2:13, rom 8:28)


WITHOUT SUBMISSION AND THE FEAR & REVERENCE FOR THE LORD, WE HAMPER HIS WORK, GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND IF WE ARE OVERCOME BY OUR SINFUL NATURE, WE CAN LOSE OUR SALVATION AND NEVER BE BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE AGAIN.(2 pet 2:20-22, heb 6:4-12)


NOW, IF WE REALLY ARE IN CHRIST AND A NEW CREATION, HOW CAN’T OUR WORKS SAVE US AND OTHER PEOPLE? DO WE DENY THE POWER OF GOD AND HIS SPIRIT IN US(the body of Christ)TO SAVE?


Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


1 Timothy 4:15-16 Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.




1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


Matthew 9:37-38 Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”


JUST AS JESUS DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER IS DOING AND BECAUSE GOD IS THE HEAD OF JESUS, AND JESUS IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH(HIS BODY)(1cor 11:3, col 1:18) AND OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR(eph 5:23), CHRISTIANS ARE COMMANDED TO DO THE WORKS OF GOD EVEN HIS WORKS OF SALVATION FOR IT IS GOD OUR ONLY SAVIOR WHO IS WORKING IN AND THRU US AS INSTRUMENTS OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS(rom 6:13) IN TRUTH AND IN LOVE.


John 9:4 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.


John 12:47-48 “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.


John 14:10-12 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, LIVING IN ME, who is DOING HIS WORK. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or AT LEAST BELIEVE ON THE EVIDENCE OF THE MIRACLES( a work) themselves. I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.


SALVATION IS THE WORK OF A SAVIOR AND WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What does "naffed" mean?

think its like "naff" in past tense

 

[loisola]

We love because He first loved us... I can serve because He gave me reason to. I am not going to Church or doing all I do to make Him love me more but because He already does. When we know He really loves us we will naturally walk like Him...we will find ourselves copying Him effortlessly. But when I want to do everything thinking that I can make Him like me more... then I would be on the wrong track. I'll become religious and judgemental.
...While we were yet sinners Christ died for us...
A good example is the relationship between lovers. Because my husband loves me I naturally respond to his love...giving and doing things joyfully not minding all that might be against me.
The only work I believe any Christian should have is ensuring we all stay true to the Bible. Meditate on the it. The more we know Jesus and His love for us the more we will readily do what He says. ...Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God...

 

[dcontroversal]

Fran, look more closely at my post to see what is being confirmed. Here it is again....

V15-19: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


A tree with no good fruit is thrown into the fire
A good tree does not bear bad fruit
A bad tree does not bear good fruit


Therefore....... the tree being thrown into the fire is the one that was bad all along, since a bad tree does not bear good fruit. This isn't a believer losing salvation.

Amen to this.....and lest we forget...believers can and will have works of wood, hay and stubble mixed in with the gold, silver and precious stones....

 

[dcontroversal]

No need to remind anyone.

We're speaking about all the doctrine you list above:

1. How to gain salvataion.

2. How to keep salvation.

3. Is salvation eternal?


You did pack a lot into one thread!

There is no KEEPING SALVATION as it is eternal.....faith for salvation and then works to keep it is a false gospel with no power to save or keep saved....end of story!

 

[dcontroversal]

Could you explain what FLUFF is?

Mattforjesus has a page long of scripture to support his belief.

How do you reply to it?
By calling it fluff.

That's really nice of you. How about replying with some scripture that supports what YOU believe?

You see what you wrote above?
THAT IS FLUFF.

I'm not sure mattforjesus is saying that one can't sin.
He's saying not to give the victory to satan.
He's saying that we could choose not to sin.

I see no problem with this.
This does not man we Always make the right choice.
For instance, you don't Always make the right choice when you choose to demean people instead of engaging them in discussion.

I have had a round or two with him and he is as deceptive as they come....he likes to embellish, say that we push lifestyles of sin because we believe in salvation by grace through faith etc...so....anything else Fran?

 

[dcontroversal]

I've posted the history of OSAS.

Could you please do the same?
Could you instruct us all (instead of just saying how wrong I am) as to the HISTORY of eternal salvation?

Was it Always a belief of the Church?
When did it start?
Who started it?

Why wasn't it Always believed by the Church?
Any other comments would be appreciated.

thanks.

(you never do actually answer me)

Sure I do, just as many have and you still reject the truth while pushing things that are contrary Fran...

 

[garee]

Why would PeterJens need a commentary when what he posted is clear as day?
He even used color and sizing.

It cannot be anymore clearer unless you have already made a doctrine, and are now looking to confirm it.

It's the other way around.

First you read the bible, and THEN you make up the doctrine based on what the bible says.

I see he used color and sizing. But what does that have to do wth walking by faith, the point I was trying to make? Its why Chrsit said what he did in John 39-40 to the apostate Jews. They were not mixing faith in what they did hear but rather were walking by sight.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are not judging a gospel. That would be fine.

You judge persons PERSONALLY, saying that they are going to hell and are in the plentious Group.

Please learn the difference.
You can judge an ACT,
but you CANNOT judge a PERSON'S SOUL.

This also reeks of inorance....those who disagree have judged your words, your dogma, your doctrine Fran....and Galatians 1 and 3 deems your way false.....if one follows a FALSE WAY we can rightfully surmise that they will not make it...end of story...works or grace....grace = salvation, works = no salvation, no gift....rather simple at the end of the day!

 

[Katy-follower]

Amen to this.....and lest we forget...believers can and will have works of wood, hay and stubble mixed in with the gold, silver and precious stones....

Absolutely.... to be clear, was not promoting sinless perfectionism

 

[dcontroversal]

You sound upset.
Where's the love you have in Christ?

Not at all....how can I be upset...I am in Stralia mate.....love and truth go hand in hand....sorry if you cannot handle both at the same time!

 

[dcontroversal]

What I AM trying to do is get you to use scripture.
Is it that difficult?

I have used scripture....sorry if your blind to it....let me try again..works do not save, keep saved or maintain salvation....salvation is by faith thru grace and is a free GIFT....works or grace..not both...one or the other!

 

[dcontroversal]

Katy,
It's NOT UP TO US to decide WHO IS SAVED AND WHO ISN'T.

That's a task relegated to God. Wouldn't you say?

Can YOU see into a man's heart?
One may seem saved, and not be.
One may no seem saved and instead be saved.

HOW can YOU know for sure?

I see some here that want to be God and have even told ME that I'M going to the pit with the plentious.
Lucky for me, my salvation does not depend on anyone here making the confirmation.

Think on this.
WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE THE SOUL'S OF PERSONS.
Only their ACTS.

We can rightfully and biblically judge doctrine and are warned to do as much in scripture....maybe this concept is foreign to you because you cannot even get past biblical salvation?

 

[Ariel82]

Not at all....how can I be upset...I am in Stralia mate.....love and truth go hand in hand....sorry if you cannot handle both at the same time!

Have you seen a kangaroo yet?

I was going to go in college,but my mom was worried I would catch the bird flu so I went to Australia instead.

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you know what heretical even means?
Please post it.

Sure, heretical ->>saved by faith and kept by works....

 

[dcontroversal]

I dunno what she's trying to earn.. she don't believe in eternal salvation anyway, sooo without that, there wouldn't be much point in trying to get into heaven.. I agree with MMD. The RCC has done a real job on her mind.

Something for sure.....such are the workers for.....Jesus called them blind leaders of the blind.....The Pharisees pushed a working for, law keeping dogma....and we all know what Jesus compared them to