I assume you think I am based on your quote.
Anyway no I am not. As much as I would love that to be the truth, it's not.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I assume you think I am based on your quote.
Anyway no I am not. As much as I would love that to be the truth, it's not.
L
limey410
Guest
Ahh yes, Jesus speaking to an audience of Jews on how to not only live by the Law of Moses, but to add even more to it, to be certain that you enter into the Kingdom of heaven, the perfect instruction manual for us Christians to live by. Cutting out our eyes (well just the right one, what do you do if the left one sins?) and cutting our hand off and being perfect.
Except what Jesus was teaching was that it is impossible to live that way, but if you think you get too close, here are some additions. The Law will and has crushed you.
The only way to the Father was through what He was about to accomplish on the cross.
He even said it so you wouldn't misunderstand. John 14:6
Ooh ooh.
Somewhere in my library I have a thesis of the dichotomy of works and how it relates to justification and salvation and sanctification. It's only 754 pages. If I can dig it out I'll post it.
If not I've got a few Beano albums.
Im sure Jimbo and I would sit and read them and chuckle away
amen it is the perfect way of God sent to us as a gift through Jesus and all He did for us and said to us. the gospel of the Kingdom of God. if every person obeyed Jesus there wold be no crime, no lies, no adultery, no false testimony or accusation, no One would even think of worshipping false Gods, what really strikes me about your comment, is thats what we will all be doing in eternal Life....obeying Gods Word without the mindset that " obey" is an oppressive rule but rather.....the way we are created to Live .
the needy would not be needy because someone with plenty would give to meet thier need without someone else making it " trying to be saved" but Just because Jesus is in our hearts and His Love only comes to others through those who espress it to others. someone out there with some need whether its physical or spiritual need is praying, Gods answers come through those who commit to living by His will. we only know Gods will through the gospel and the teachings of Christ
What's a Beano album?
Why can't it be a U2 album?
What do you have against U2?
How come you never mention them or play their music?
Do you realize they're the biggest band in the world?
Do you realize everything they write about is biblically based?
And poor Bono, he still hasn't found what he's looking for.
And have you notced how he's aged? That's from wanting to
save the Whole world.
OOps. Did I just go off on a rampage?
Sorry. (yeah. Right!)
Fran, once again you misunderstand me. I've never said that we can just sit back and let God do it all for us. 
Obviously we have to be proactive and do our part. I believe that we DO need to do works because it is required of us, to show love for God and others.
You say works don't save us. I agree. They don't. So HOW can they KEEP us saved if they DON'T save us to begin with?
The dinner you make for your neighbor won't keep you saved. The lawn you mow for a disabled person won't keep you saved. These things are good works, but they are NOT to be done in order to keep salvation. You're trusting in the works you do, to keep you saved. The ONLY thing that keeps you saved, is JESUS, and your faith and belief in Him.
Nowhere in the bible does God say, "your works have saved you".. He says, "Your FAITH has saved you". So WHY don't you have faith that your salvation is assured, but by JESUS and NOT works?
Obviously we have to be proactive and do our part. I believe that we DO need to do works because it is required of us, to show love for God and others. You say works don't save us. I agree. They don't. So HOW can they KEEP us saved if they DON'T save us to begin with?
The dinner you make for your neighbor won't keep you saved. The lawn you mow for a disabled person won't keep you saved. These things are good works, but they are NOT to be done in order to keep salvation. You're trusting in the works you do, to keep you saved. The ONLY thing that keeps you saved, is JESUS, and your faith and belief in Him.
Nowhere in the bible does God say, "your works have saved you".. He says, "Your FAITH has saved you".
So WHY don't you have faith that your salvation is assured, but by JESUS and NOT works?
Limey
Please read Mathew 5 again.
The Law of Moses was the ten commandments.
What was Jesus actually doing in Mathew 5? Not what you THINK He was doing.
What does it mean when Jesus said: "You have heard it said"?
What EXACTLY was He correcting?
The 10 Commandments?
I don't think so.
He said He came not to abolish the Law.
So, what goes on here?
What do you suppose He meant when He said to be perfect like our Father in heaven is perfect?
If you start at Mathew 5:21, it'll help you with the timing and what He was talking about.
its the purpose God sent Jesus into the world to make us like Him, and He is exactly Like God the Father, its why were taught to imitate Jesus our example sent from God, our teacher sent from God, our Lord sent By God, our Savior sent by God.
and Why the apostle paul taught this
Eohesians 4:21-24 "If so be that ye have heard him, and have been TAUGHT BY him, as THE TRUTH is in Jesus: 22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the OLD MAN, which is CORRUPT according to the DECEITFUL LUSTS; 23And BE RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR MIND; 24And that ye put on the NEW MAN, which after God is created in RIGHTEOUSNESS and TRUE HOLINESS." <<<that is the goal of every christian.
to Be like God in behavior to Love others in truth and deed by not stealing from each other, not lying to each other, giving to the needy who have no help, caring for the widos and orphans of the earth, by not raping and swindeling each other, by not cheating on our spouses....all summed up by soimply doing the right thing< making that our way of life through Learning from the Only One like God...Jesus.
Fran, once again you misunderstand me. I've never said that we can just sit back and let God do it all for us.
You say works don't save us. I agree. They don't. So HOW can they KEEP us saved if they DON'T save us to begin with?
The dinner you make for your neighbor won't keep you saved. The lawn you mow for a disabled person won't keep you saved. These things are good works, but they are NOT to be done in order to keep salvation. You're trusting in the works you do, to keep you saved. The ONLY thing that keeps you saved, is JESUS, and your faith and belief in Him.
Nowhere in the bible does God say, "your works have saved you".. He says, "Your FAITH has saved you".
Just do what I asked you and THEN we'll talk again.
I hate to repeat and repeat. It gets us nowhere.
Never knew this was going on in the world. I need to get out more! Just goes to show how much we don't know about so many things. We are like the song says like a wave on the ocean.... At one time we are here... then the next time we are gone and more people come.
And yet God knows each one of us personally by name. Even all the hairs on our head. It's so sad for those who don't believe in Jesus and know the love of God. They see how big the world is and don't know God is aware of them. All they know is life is big., they are born and then they die. Could anything be more scary? Is it any wonder people get drunk or do drugs to escape their own reality?
True. Let's just agree to disagree on the point of whether our works keep us saved or not..
And you never answered my question of HOW works can keep us saved, when they don't save us to begin with.
He was filling out the ten commandments. Putting flesh on them.
It goes on 'but to fulfil them'. He fulfilled them for all of us so as to provide for us a righteousness of God so that we could be counted as righteous (Rom 3.21-5.21).
He meant that we had to show love to others as the Father showed love.
He was making the Law impossible to keep so that it would be our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ/.
Perfect.
This is how some say it:
God, who is great, became like us...
So that we, who are small, could become like Him.
I agree with everything.
The Law IS impossible to keep.
This is why we need Jesus so much.
HE is our cover. Romans 13:14 --- Galatians 3:27
And He was actually correcting a lot of the O.T. laws which were not correct.
Many of the laws, civil and ceremonial, in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy were man-made.
I'll get flack on this, but I'd like to ask anyone reading along to read those two books and then tell me God made up those rules.
It was man, as usual, trying to help God. Like Abraham did when he couldn't wait for God to send him a son.
So yes, there was much that Jesus had to fix.
When He said "You have heard it said" the very next words were going to be to fix the old law that was wrong.
BUT the moral Law was never abolished.