"EIS" OR "DIA" OR "HOTI" ??
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“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3.5). This is the word of our Lord to Nicodemus.
When Paul wrote to the saints in Rome he inquired, “Are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” Paul then continued with these words: “We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Rom. 6.3-5).Both the Lord Jesus and Paul speak of the reality of baptism.
But some people look at this matter of baptism from the physical point of view. Their eyes see only the water. Hence they insist on baptismal regeneration. They have not touched the spiritual reality. Other people try to approach this question mentally. They maintain that water cannot regenerate people. Accordingly, they explain that with some people baptism is real and inward while with others it is false and outward. The first group can enter into the kingdom of God but those in the second category are excluded. They too have not touched spiritual reality in this matter.
The baptism of which the Lord told Nicodemus is a reality. Paul also sees reality in baptism: burial with the Lord for newness of life. He told the saints in Colossae, “Having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him” (Col. 2.12). To him baptism and burial are one and the same thing; so too are baptism and resurrection. He knows what is meant by being buried with the Lord and also what is meant by being raised with the Lord. He does not see the water of baptism only, nor does he view some as being truly baptized while some others are not. He communicates to others the reality of that baptism which he has touched.
Brothers and sisters, if you have seen baptism as a reality you naturally know what it is. The question of its being true or false, inward or outward, simply does not exist, because you see that to be baptized is to be buried and raised up together with Christ. Having seen this reality, can you refrain from proclaiming that baptism is indeed so big, so real, and so inclusive? As soon as a person is shown the reality, then that which is false can no longer exist. Suppose someone should say: “Now that I have been baptized, I hope I may be buried and then raised together with the Lord.” The one who could utter such a statement has not touched reality, since to him baptism is one thing and burial and resurrection are quite another. But that person who perceives spiritual reality knows what burial and resurrection are. Baptism is burial, baptism is also resurrection. They are one and the same thing.
Do you realize, brothers and sisters, that no one can ever perceive spiritual things with his eyes fixed on the material, that no one can ever think through to the spiritual with his brain? All spiritual matters have their realities. He who has touched reality questions no more.
When Paul wrote to the saints in Rome he inquired, “Are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” Paul then continued with these words: “We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Rom. 6.3-5).Both the Lord Jesus and Paul speak of the reality of baptism.
But some people look at this matter of baptism from the physical point of view. Their eyes see only the water. Hence they insist on baptismal regeneration. They have not touched the spiritual reality. Other people try to approach this question mentally. They maintain that water cannot regenerate people. Accordingly, they explain that with some people baptism is real and inward while with others it is false and outward. The first group can enter into the kingdom of God but those in the second category are excluded. They too have not touched spiritual reality in this matter.
The baptism of which the Lord told Nicodemus is a reality. Paul also sees reality in baptism: burial with the Lord for newness of life. He told the saints in Colossae, “Having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him” (Col. 2.12). To him baptism and burial are one and the same thing; so too are baptism and resurrection. He knows what is meant by being buried with the Lord and also what is meant by being raised with the Lord. He does not see the water of baptism only, nor does he view some as being truly baptized while some others are not. He communicates to others the reality of that baptism which he has touched.
Brothers and sisters, if you have seen baptism as a reality you naturally know what it is. The question of its being true or false, inward or outward, simply does not exist, because you see that to be baptized is to be buried and raised up together with Christ. Having seen this reality, can you refrain from proclaiming that baptism is indeed so big, so real, and so inclusive? As soon as a person is shown the reality, then that which is false can no longer exist. Suppose someone should say: “Now that I have been baptized, I hope I may be buried and then raised together with the Lord.” The one who could utter such a statement has not touched reality, since to him baptism is one thing and burial and resurrection are quite another. But that person who perceives spiritual reality knows what burial and resurrection are. Baptism is burial, baptism is also resurrection. They are one and the same thing.
Do you realize, brothers and sisters, that no one can ever perceive spiritual things with his eyes fixed on the material, that no one can ever think through to the spiritual with his brain? All spiritual matters have their realities. He who has touched reality questions no more.
The same reason there is no mention of confessing Him as Lord (Romans 10:9a), no mention of believing that He rose from the dead (Romans 10:9b), no mention of repentance (Luke 13:3), no mention of being born again (John 3:7). All of your verses, as well as mine are true but general statements such as is 99% of the Bible. We can not use one verse to negate another. Those of the faith alone sects refuse to harmonize the many verses that speak of baptism as part of the plan of salvation and instead ignore or twist there meaning. This is the shifting sand your theology is built on.
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So according to you, John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 are "incomplete" statements and we we must pool all such statements together about (repentance, confession and baptism) and list them as "additional requirements" that we must accomplish "after" we "believe in Him" if we wish to find out what God truly requires for salvation? These passages in John say that everyone who "believes in Him" will be saved. It does not say merely that believing in Him is one of many things required in order to be saved. It does not leave open such an interpretation of the passage. None of those passages in John leaves room for "additional requirements" that follow.
Repentance is not an additional requirement to become saved "after" we believe in Him and receive eternal life. Repentance actually "precedes" believes/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). People who attend the church of Christ reverse the scriptural order of repentance and faith and erroneously turn salvation through faith in Christ into a 4-5 step program of salvation by works. The Bible sometimes only mentions repentance as a condition for salvation. One example of this would be Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." A few times both repentance and believe/faith are mentioned in the same verse (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). There are many, many verses which only mention faith as the condition for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ. *Two sides to the same experience.* When only repentance is mentioned, faith is implied or assumed. When only faith is mentioned, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. If you believe the gospel, then you already repented in the process of changing your mind and choosing to believe the gospel. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel, but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED.
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation (as if we believe unto righteousness today, yet still remain lost/then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week) but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a check list of steps is not unto salvation.
It's actually you who refuses to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to correctly understand that salvation is through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Instead, you distort and pervert passages of Scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
To begin with, the Bible is very clear in it's teachings that all Christians are expected to be baptized in water. On the other hand, the New Testament makes it equally clear that man is saved prior to receiving water baptism. Cornelius’s family received the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the gifts of the Spirit after believing the gospel but before being baptized (Acts 10:44-47). This observation must be balanced, however, by the fact that baptism was not an "optional extra" for Cornelius’s family; it was a command (10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (10:43). Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4).
There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such prooftexts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.
Repentance is not an additional requirement to become saved "after" we believe in Him and receive eternal life. Repentance actually "precedes" believes/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). People who attend the church of Christ reverse the scriptural order of repentance and faith and erroneously turn salvation through faith in Christ into a 4-5 step program of salvation by works. The Bible sometimes only mentions repentance as a condition for salvation. One example of this would be Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." A few times both repentance and believe/faith are mentioned in the same verse (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). There are many, many verses which only mention faith as the condition for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ. *Two sides to the same experience.* When only repentance is mentioned, faith is implied or assumed. When only faith is mentioned, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. If you believe the gospel, then you already repented in the process of changing your mind and choosing to believe the gospel. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel, but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED.
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation (as if we believe unto righteousness today, yet still remain lost/then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week) but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a check list of steps is not unto salvation.
It's actually you who refuses to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to correctly understand that salvation is through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Instead, you distort and pervert passages of Scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
To begin with, the Bible is very clear in it's teachings that all Christians are expected to be baptized in water. On the other hand, the New Testament makes it equally clear that man is saved prior to receiving water baptism. Cornelius’s family received the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the gifts of the Spirit after believing the gospel but before being baptized (Acts 10:44-47). This observation must be balanced, however, by the fact that baptism was not an "optional extra" for Cornelius’s family; it was a command (10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (10:43). Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4).
There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such prooftexts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.
In John 3:5, have you considered "living water?" Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.
In Romans 6:4, the phrase "buried with Him through baptism," seems to support the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of justification. However, even here baptism could be understood as the sign of justification. It is not unusual in Scripture to call the reality by the name of its sign. Thus, for example, Paul says that all Christians are circumcised (even though one may not be physically circumcised) - meaning that they possess what circumcision signifies (Philippians 3:3). Using this kind of language, Paul can speak of the great reality of the believers’ spiritual union with Christ, and the benefits which flow from that union, in terms of baptism, its sign.
We are forced to give this interpretation by the context. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).
Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.
In Romans 6:4, the phrase "buried with Him through baptism," seems to support the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of justification. However, even here baptism could be understood as the sign of justification. It is not unusual in Scripture to call the reality by the name of its sign. Thus, for example, Paul says that all Christians are circumcised (even though one may not be physically circumcised) - meaning that they possess what circumcision signifies (Philippians 3:3). Using this kind of language, Paul can speak of the great reality of the believers’ spiritual union with Christ, and the benefits which flow from that union, in terms of baptism, its sign.
We are forced to give this interpretation by the context. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).
Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.
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To be born of water and the Spirit is to be cleansed by the “water of the word” Water it represents the pouring out of the Holy Spirit..
We do not know Christ after any rudiment of this world and that includes H20 that which is seen to symbolize that not seen, the work of the Spirit of Christ pouring out spirit life on the flesh.
If a person would look to its foundation as a ceremonial law which remains today, it was used whenever a New Priest would show a desire to enter the ministry It was necessary use H20 to symbolize the “water of the word” . Even the Son of man our high Priest, followed that ceremonial law before he entered His ministry.
We can see that by looking at the discussion in John 3:25. John from the tribe of Levi ceremonialy baptized Christ who was from the tribe of Judah and needed a officiator from the tribe of Levi. Then after because Christ was officiated he could then baptize his own disciples to prepare them for their ministry sending out two by two. We are a kingdom of Priest
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou Joh 3:25
To be born of water and the Spirit is to be cleansed by the “water of the word” Water it represents the pouring out of the Holy Spirit..
We do not know Christ after any rudiment of this world and that includes H20 that which is seen to symbolize that not seen, the work of the Spirit of Christ pouring out spirit life on the flesh.
If a person would look to its foundation as a ceremonial law which remains today, it was used whenever a New Priest would show a desire to enter the ministry It was necessary use H20 to symbolize the “water of the word” . Even the Son of man our high Priest, followed that ceremonial law before he entered His ministry.
We can see that by looking at the discussion in John 3:25. John from the tribe of Levi ceremonialy baptized Christ who was from the tribe of Judah and needed a officiator from the tribe of Levi. Then after because Christ was officiated he could then baptize his own disciples to prepare them for their ministry sending out two by two. We are a kingdom of Priest
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou Joh 3:25
General statement does not mean "incomplete" statement. I'm sure you knew this before you wrote your comment. My reply was simple, your verses as well as my verses are general statements not definitive statements. Any high school composition student can tell the difference, I know you can too.
Labeling general statements as definitive is not a defense against the obvious statements of baptism being the point of remission of sins. Would you tell a group of parents that Proverbs 22:6 is a definitive statement? Of course not, it is like most statements in the Bible, general in nature and can not be used as a all-encompassing statement on any subject.
Clearly there is a point of remission. James 2 does not state what it is but he clearly states what it is not, faith alone. James is not writing to believing demons he is writing to us. If faith alone is the point of remission of sins what a strange way to express it. Rehab believed but without her tying the red cord she would have been lost. No matter how much faith she had, it was the act of tying the cord that saved her. The Jewish warriors did not know of her faith as they sacked the city, just that the cord was tied. No merit in tying the cord, just the fulfillment of the command.
I am not saying that faith is not essential, of course it is. But essential does not mean exclusive.
Salvation does not lead to obedient faith, obedient faith leads to salvation.
I don't know how to explain such a simple notion any better.
Labeling general statements as definitive is not a defense against the obvious statements of baptism being the point of remission of sins. Would you tell a group of parents that Proverbs 22:6 is a definitive statement? Of course not, it is like most statements in the Bible, general in nature and can not be used as a all-encompassing statement on any subject.
Clearly there is a point of remission. James 2 does not state what it is but he clearly states what it is not, faith alone. James is not writing to believing demons he is writing to us. If faith alone is the point of remission of sins what a strange way to express it. Rehab believed but without her tying the red cord she would have been lost. No matter how much faith she had, it was the act of tying the cord that saved her. The Jewish warriors did not know of her faith as they sacked the city, just that the cord was tied. No merit in tying the cord, just the fulfillment of the command.
I am not saying that faith is not essential, of course it is. But essential does not mean exclusive.
Salvation does not lead to obedient faith, obedient faith leads to salvation.
I don't know how to explain such a simple notion any better.
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Amen! The Holy Spirit is the instrument of both the cleansing and the birth of the divine nature in us. "Water" intensifies and magnifies "Spirit" by means of the figurative ways God's Holy Spirit is shown working: as a means of God's light-and life-giving Word, of spiritual power, and of cleansing. Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. Baptism does not avail to cleanse the heart from defilement, but our Lord did say, "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (John 15:3). Is Christ speaking of the water of the word in John 3:5? In a passage on the means of regeneration, we find our answer. The Apostle Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, but the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (I Peter 1:23). Born of "water" is not a reference to water baptism. Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cleanse the heart from sin and cause us to become born again. The water refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul that is accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation (Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23).
We can see that by looking at the discussion in John 3:25. John from the tribe of Levi ceremonialy baptized Christ who was from the tribe of Judah and needed a officiator from the tribe of Levi. Then after because Christ was officiated he could then baptize his own disciples to prepare them for their ministry sending out two by two. We are a kingdom of Priest
Notice that the NIV says "ceremonial washing" in regards to baptism. John 3:25 - An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."
We can see that by looking at the discussion in John 3:25. John from the tribe of Levi ceremonialy baptized Christ who was from the tribe of Judah and needed a officiator from the tribe of Levi. Then after because Christ was officiated he could then baptize his own disciples to prepare them for their ministry sending out two by two. We are a kingdom of Priest
Notice that the NIV says "ceremonial washing" in regards to baptism. John 3:25 - An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."
If believing in Him is insufficient to save and must be followed by repentance, confession and water baptism in order for us to become saved (according to you) then believing in Him to receive eternal life is an "incomplete" statement in each of these passages of Scripture (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). Believing in Him is not baptism and believing in Him precedes baptism and we are saved/receive the remission of sins the moment that we believe in Him/place faith in Christ for salvation BEFORE we receive water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 26:18 etc..). It's just that simple. Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT. Indoctrination runs deep.
*If it's so obvious, then show me just ONE verse in the Bible that says whoever is NOT water baptized will NOT be saved. Surely, if water baptism is also necessary for salvation, then God would not make so many statements in which He promises eternal life to those who simply BELIEVE (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; 1 Timothy 1:16; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
You are basing your argument here on faulty human logic.
What James means by faith "alone" (empty profession of faith that remains alone/barren of works) and what believers mean by faith (rightly understood) in Christ "alone" (faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation) is not the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you.
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in George Washington to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
Not an empty profession of faith that "remains alone" (barren of works). That is not genuine faith, but a dead faith. Not to be confused with faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation and not in works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
If Rahab would have not tied the red cord, then she would have demonstrated a lack of faith. In Hebrews 11:31, Rahab believed in the Lord with a living faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her living faith. She proved her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all true believers prove theirs. First: LIVING FAITH unto salvation; then followed by good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Just as Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it.
Faith is exclusively the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Faith is not merely just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.
You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse. Genuine faith in Christ (that trusts in Christ alone for salvation) leads to salvation, which is then followed by obedience/good works. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
You made it clear to me that you put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by works.
*If it's so obvious, then show me just ONE verse in the Bible that says whoever is NOT water baptized will NOT be saved. Surely, if water baptism is also necessary for salvation, then God would not make so many statements in which He promises eternal life to those who simply BELIEVE (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; 1 Timothy 1:16; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
You are basing your argument here on faulty human logic.
What James means by faith "alone" (empty profession of faith that remains alone/barren of works) and what believers mean by faith (rightly understood) in Christ "alone" (faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation) is not the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you.
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in George Washington to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
Not an empty profession of faith that "remains alone" (barren of works). That is not genuine faith, but a dead faith. Not to be confused with faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation and not in works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
If Rahab would have not tied the red cord, then she would have demonstrated a lack of faith. In Hebrews 11:31, Rahab believed in the Lord with a living faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her living faith. She proved her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all true believers prove theirs. First: LIVING FAITH unto salvation; then followed by good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Just as Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it.
Faith is exclusively the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Faith is not merely just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.
You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse. Genuine faith in Christ (that trusts in Christ alone for salvation) leads to salvation, which is then followed by obedience/good works. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
You made it clear to me that you put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by works.
Obedience is part of the plan of salvation, we may debate on what must be obeyed but not its necessity. If faith is the sole requirement Peter would have told those "cut to the heart" to simply believe. But Peter did not tell them to believe, why?? Peter commands repentance and baptism but not faith, why?? Because they were believers already but not repented or baptized or partakers of the Holy Spirit or saved.
If simply believing in the words of Jesus was the point of remission of sins verses such as: "Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, 'if you continue in my words, you are truly my disciples' (John 8:31) RSV should not exist!
When a teacher tells her class to study in order to pass the exam, it is understood to be a general statement of the truth. A student who studies but still fails can not use the teachers words against her. The teachers words were not "incomplete" just general, as is most language written or spoken. No matter how much you want it to be, John 3:16 is not the Great Commission. That more definitive statement comes later.
Your demand for a verse that states, "whoever is not baptized will not be saved" is absurd. I do not need to prove your negative, the task is to prove the thesis, (we are saved by faith alone).
How can you logically claim verses such as John 3:16, Acts 10:43 and Romans 1:16 are definitive but Proverbs 22:6 is not? Your judgment seems to be rather arbitrary. I would love to know how you would label statements such as James 1:27 or Ecclesiastes 10:19.
You can not ignore the meaning of a verse by filtering it through a more general verse, which is clearly what you are doing.
Example: Peter could not mean baptism is the point of remission of sins because John 3:16 states that faith is needed to be saved. Therefore Acts 2:38 must mean something else.
"I am the way, the truth and the light". Jesus is the path to remission, baptism is the point of remission, nothing more. Baptism is not a work of merit but the time of salvation. This is what you and the "faith only" sects are railing against but are blind to.
Standing at the door refusing to knock, afraid that the knocking is a work of merit is folly and a stumbling block to many.
If simply believing in the words of Jesus was the point of remission of sins verses such as: "Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, 'if you continue in my words, you are truly my disciples' (John 8:31) RSV should not exist!
When a teacher tells her class to study in order to pass the exam, it is understood to be a general statement of the truth. A student who studies but still fails can not use the teachers words against her. The teachers words were not "incomplete" just general, as is most language written or spoken. No matter how much you want it to be, John 3:16 is not the Great Commission. That more definitive statement comes later.
Your demand for a verse that states, "whoever is not baptized will not be saved" is absurd. I do not need to prove your negative, the task is to prove the thesis, (we are saved by faith alone).
How can you logically claim verses such as John 3:16, Acts 10:43 and Romans 1:16 are definitive but Proverbs 22:6 is not? Your judgment seems to be rather arbitrary. I would love to know how you would label statements such as James 1:27 or Ecclesiastes 10:19.
You can not ignore the meaning of a verse by filtering it through a more general verse, which is clearly what you are doing.
Example: Peter could not mean baptism is the point of remission of sins because John 3:16 states that faith is needed to be saved. Therefore Acts 2:38 must mean something else.
"I am the way, the truth and the light". Jesus is the path to remission, baptism is the point of remission, nothing more. Baptism is not a work of merit but the time of salvation. This is what you and the "faith only" sects are railing against but are blind to.
Standing at the door refusing to knock, afraid that the knocking is a work of merit is folly and a stumbling block to many.
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So how much obedience does it take? How much obedience must we accomplish and add as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us? Choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) is the act of obedience that saves us. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
This is false. They were not already believers before they repented. This is an example of reversing the scriptural order of repentance and believe/faith. Also, in Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was simply "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him. *That is not saving belief yet. They still lacked trust and reliance in Christ alone for salvation and that's why they still needed to repent and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. In verse 40, they heard more from Peter and in verse 41, when they gladly received his word (through repentance/belief), the process of repentance (changing their minds) was complete and the end result was saving faith in Christ. Water baptism followed. In Acts 16:30, when asked the question, "what must I do to be saved?" Did Paul say get water baptized? NO. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." (vs. 31).
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. (Spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12). Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
So after properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we can see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
Notice that Jesus said, 'if you continue in My word, then you are TRULY disciples of Mine. Those who do not continue are NOT truly disciples of Jesus (John 6:64-71). Those Jews who had believed in Him here is not saving belief. ALL belief is not the same. John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31-59 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (v. 59). After Jesus’ teaching we read in 6:60 that "many of his disciples . . . said," ‘This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?’ These are the very so called disciples who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64).
John 3:16 is not an incomplete statement and does not include water baptism. There is no need to try and "shoe horn" baptism "into" John 3:16 in order to make it a complete statement. It's already a complete statement and also, believing in Him AND getting water baptized AFTERWARDS are two distinct things. Believing is not baptism and believing precedes baptism.
It's not absurd at all. We find such a verse that states, "unless you all repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). We also find a verse that states, "he who does not believe is condemned already" (John 3:18). *Yet NOWHERE in Scripture do we find a verse that states, "whoever is not baptized will not be saved." hmm...
You have failed to prove the negative about water baptism. Now in regards to faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone, the Bible clearly teaches in many passages of Scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Timothy 1:16; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13; etc.. *You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of Scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in each of these passages of Scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of Scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. *Not to be confused with an "empty profession of faith" that remains "alone" - barren of works (James 2:14-18).
What does this have to do with salvation through believing (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) vs. believing + works? Let's stay with the topic at hand. No need for rabbit trails or faulty human logic.
Acts 2:38 must mean something else or else we have a contradiction (John 3:16; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18) *Scripture must harmonize with Scripture. So once again, after properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we can see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
Just the path? The path that merely leads to some other means of remission? Not hardly. Jesus also said, "I am the door, if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved.. (John 10:9). And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved (Acts 4:12). It's all about salvation through believing in Him/faith in Christ (John 3:15,16,18; Romans 3:26; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9) and not salvation by "water and works."
False. The remission of sins is SIGNIFIED, yet not procured in the waters of baptism. Believers receive remission of sins prior to receiving water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 26:18).
False. Baptism is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:15) and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5). If water baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation and stood between us and receiving eternal life, then that makes it a work of merit. You can't have it both ways.
It's the works-salvationists who are blind (and there is a reason for that) and substitute salvation through faith with salvation by "water and works."
Straw man argument.
This is false. They were not already believers before they repented. This is an example of reversing the scriptural order of repentance and believe/faith. Also, in Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was simply "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him. *That is not saving belief yet. They still lacked trust and reliance in Christ alone for salvation and that's why they still needed to repent and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. In verse 40, they heard more from Peter and in verse 41, when they gladly received his word (through repentance/belief), the process of repentance (changing their minds) was complete and the end result was saving faith in Christ. Water baptism followed. In Acts 16:30, when asked the question, "what must I do to be saved?" Did Paul say get water baptized? NO. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." (vs. 31).
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. (Spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12). Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
So after properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we can see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
Notice that Jesus said, 'if you continue in My word, then you are TRULY disciples of Mine. Those who do not continue are NOT truly disciples of Jesus (John 6:64-71). Those Jews who had believed in Him here is not saving belief. ALL belief is not the same. John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31-59 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (v. 59). After Jesus’ teaching we read in 6:60 that "many of his disciples . . . said," ‘This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?’ These are the very so called disciples who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64).
John 3:16 is not an incomplete statement and does not include water baptism. There is no need to try and "shoe horn" baptism "into" John 3:16 in order to make it a complete statement. It's already a complete statement and also, believing in Him AND getting water baptized AFTERWARDS are two distinct things. Believing is not baptism and believing precedes baptism.
It's not absurd at all. We find such a verse that states, "unless you all repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). We also find a verse that states, "he who does not believe is condemned already" (John 3:18). *Yet NOWHERE in Scripture do we find a verse that states, "whoever is not baptized will not be saved." hmm...
You have failed to prove the negative about water baptism. Now in regards to faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone, the Bible clearly teaches in many passages of Scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Timothy 1:16; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13; etc.. *You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of Scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in each of these passages of Scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of Scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. *Not to be confused with an "empty profession of faith" that remains "alone" - barren of works (James 2:14-18).
What does this have to do with salvation through believing (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) vs. believing + works? Let's stay with the topic at hand. No need for rabbit trails or faulty human logic.
Acts 2:38 must mean something else or else we have a contradiction (John 3:16; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18) *Scripture must harmonize with Scripture. So once again, after properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we can see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
Just the path? The path that merely leads to some other means of remission? Not hardly. Jesus also said, "I am the door, if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved.. (John 10:9). And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved (Acts 4:12). It's all about salvation through believing in Him/faith in Christ (John 3:15,16,18; Romans 3:26; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9) and not salvation by "water and works."
False. The remission of sins is SIGNIFIED, yet not procured in the waters of baptism. Believers receive remission of sins prior to receiving water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 26:18).
False. Baptism is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:15) and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5). If water baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation and stood between us and receiving eternal life, then that makes it a work of merit. You can't have it both ways.
It's the works-salvationists who are blind (and there is a reason for that) and substitute salvation through faith with salvation by "water and works."
Straw man argument.
Because works-salvationists trust in works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. From what I'm hearing from you, the shoe fits. Faith in Christ + works renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior. In 2 Corinthians 4:3, Paul said - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.
This is what I suspected. I have met many people like you. You believe anyone who sees the necessity of obedience before the remission of sins as blinded by God. You of course see the gospel clearly. God has not blinded you because you accept the true message of salvation. While us poor blinded lost souls who vainly call ourselves Christian spread the lie that God's blessings comes after obedience. After all, acts of obedience are but natural events destined to occur because of the faith we put in Christ.
Am I close?
Or are you one of the many on the internet who claim special understanding of God's word. Are you one of those who have been given the gift of discernment? Can you look into my soul and know that though I profess Jesus as Lord openly, boldly and without hesitation am still blinded by the same God I call on?
Which one are you? The one not blinded or the gifted one? Maybe a little of both? Have you just been a Christian so long that you can spot a blind man a mile away?
Because I see obedience as part of the Gospel I am blinded by God? Because I see the need for baptism in the scriptures for the remission of sins God has shut my eyes to the truth. Because I refuse to believe that "eis" really means "because of" God is punishing me with spiritual blindness? I believe all the verses you have presented as they are written but because I refuse to add the word "alone" to their meaning I am blind?
I am not blind and neither are you. Obviously we see things differently.
You look at verses such as John 3:16 and see a definitive statement. An all encompassing statement that cannot be added to or taken away. A verse that if accepted as the gospel will lead mankind to salvation regardless of any other verse. This is where you and I clash. I see the same verse as a true and basic calling from our Creator to look to the Son of God and not ourselves for life. A call to turn toward Him and understand that He is the way, the truth and the light.
I am not blind. I know I am lost. I know I am hopeless. I know I need someone to rescue me. That person is Jesus Christ the living Son of God. The one born of the House of David, born of the virgin who lived among mankind. The one falsely accused and betrayed. Who suffered for my sins and willingly died in my place. Who rose again and is on the right hand of God. Who will come back to earth and call His people to Him. I have no proof of any of this yet I believe. If God has brought me this far in my faith and has now blinded me, I will accept His will as just. But I can not turn away from the very form and flow of the Bible as I see it.
As a businessman I have learned the difference between a general and definitive statement. Many costly mistakes are made by not knowing this. When I read verses such as John 3:16 I do not see what you see. I see a offer to follow Him. Where will that path lead me I do not know, but I will trust in Him. If that road leads to baptism I will go and He will bless me. If I refuse He will not. Following Him into baptism in not a work but a necessary action to fulfill His will for me, much as His own baptism.
This is how the Bible has marched on through the history of man. From Adam and Eve losing the blessing of Eden for not obeying to the warnings to churches in Revelation to repent or lose their blessings.
Let us run the race, let us knock until it opens, let us keep our lamps full. Most of all let us put on our wedding gowns not fearful that it may be seen as a work but a blessing.
Am I close?
Or are you one of the many on the internet who claim special understanding of God's word. Are you one of those who have been given the gift of discernment? Can you look into my soul and know that though I profess Jesus as Lord openly, boldly and without hesitation am still blinded by the same God I call on?
Which one are you? The one not blinded or the gifted one? Maybe a little of both? Have you just been a Christian so long that you can spot a blind man a mile away?
Because I see obedience as part of the Gospel I am blinded by God? Because I see the need for baptism in the scriptures for the remission of sins God has shut my eyes to the truth. Because I refuse to believe that "eis" really means "because of" God is punishing me with spiritual blindness? I believe all the verses you have presented as they are written but because I refuse to add the word "alone" to their meaning I am blind?
I am not blind and neither are you. Obviously we see things differently.
You look at verses such as John 3:16 and see a definitive statement. An all encompassing statement that cannot be added to or taken away. A verse that if accepted as the gospel will lead mankind to salvation regardless of any other verse. This is where you and I clash. I see the same verse as a true and basic calling from our Creator to look to the Son of God and not ourselves for life. A call to turn toward Him and understand that He is the way, the truth and the light.
I am not blind. I know I am lost. I know I am hopeless. I know I need someone to rescue me. That person is Jesus Christ the living Son of God. The one born of the House of David, born of the virgin who lived among mankind. The one falsely accused and betrayed. Who suffered for my sins and willingly died in my place. Who rose again and is on the right hand of God. Who will come back to earth and call His people to Him. I have no proof of any of this yet I believe. If God has brought me this far in my faith and has now blinded me, I will accept His will as just. But I can not turn away from the very form and flow of the Bible as I see it.
As a businessman I have learned the difference between a general and definitive statement. Many costly mistakes are made by not knowing this. When I read verses such as John 3:16 I do not see what you see. I see a offer to follow Him. Where will that path lead me I do not know, but I will trust in Him. If that road leads to baptism I will go and He will bless me. If I refuse He will not. Following Him into baptism in not a work but a necessary action to fulfill His will for me, much as His own baptism.
This is how the Bible has marched on through the history of man. From Adam and Eve losing the blessing of Eden for not obeying to the warnings to churches in Revelation to repent or lose their blessings.
Let us run the race, let us knock until it opens, let us keep our lamps full. Most of all let us put on our wedding gowns not fearful that it may be seen as a work but a blessing.
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I am a bit confused here, those saying baptism saves us, are you saying that baptism regenerates us? I think some anon't but others are.
Because the Greek New Testament 4th edition has the word "ἀναστάσεως" "promise, answer; appeal; συνειδήσεως ἀγαθῆς ἐπερώτημα εἰς θεόν perhaps promise or appeal to God from a good conscience [I Peter 3:21]"
The appeal, promise or answer is coming from a good conscience. That means the good conscience is already in possession of the one being baptized. Which means Peter is clarifying Acts 2:38, you are baptized for your sins have been forgiven or for the remission of sins, not so that your sins will be forgiven, for they have been forgiven. If the baptism is to forgive sins, Peter would of said, be baptized everyone of you that your may be forgiven of your sins or that your sins may be blotted out. Like he does in Acts 3:19, I can not find any where that Peter repeats this formula for the remission of sins.
Acts 3:12, 19 "And when Peter saw it he addressed the people: “Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we have made him walk?....Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out," This is Peter is speaking and this is the result. Acts 4:4 "But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand." It says nothing about baptism for the remission of sins, it talks about the act of repent, turn back, sins may be blotted out, no mention of baptism. In Peter discourse or in the details of what had happened, only that, those that believed were added to their number, no believed and baptized.
Acts 22:16 "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." "be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name." In line with what Peter said in Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Because the Greek New Testament 4th edition has the word "ἀναστάσεως" "promise, answer; appeal; συνειδήσεως ἀγαθῆς ἐπερώτημα εἰς θεόν perhaps promise or appeal to God from a good conscience [I Peter 3:21]"
The appeal, promise or answer is coming from a good conscience. That means the good conscience is already in possession of the one being baptized. Which means Peter is clarifying Acts 2:38, you are baptized for your sins have been forgiven or for the remission of sins, not so that your sins will be forgiven, for they have been forgiven. If the baptism is to forgive sins, Peter would of said, be baptized everyone of you that your may be forgiven of your sins or that your sins may be blotted out. Like he does in Acts 3:19, I can not find any where that Peter repeats this formula for the remission of sins.
Acts 3:12, 19 "And when Peter saw it he addressed the people: “Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we have made him walk?....Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out," This is Peter is speaking and this is the result. Acts 4:4 "But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand." It says nothing about baptism for the remission of sins, it talks about the act of repent, turn back, sins may be blotted out, no mention of baptism. In Peter discourse or in the details of what had happened, only that, those that believed were added to their number, no believed and baptized.
Acts 22:16 "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." "be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name." In line with what Peter said in Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
This post is a horrible mess with numerous errors. For example, this sentence from the post,
The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, κα with this verse we haveὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ in Matthew 12:31 and Luke 12:32 is forceful evidence for a casual use of this preposition.
is a quote from the Greek grammar, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, by H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey.
The correct quote is,
The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα ᾿Ιωνᾶ in Mt. 12:41 and Lk 12:32 is forceful evidence for a causal use of this preposition.
There is also an error in the sentence being quoted—Lk 12:21 should read Lk 11:32—an error that should have been caught and noted in the post.
The change from ‘causal’ to ‘casual’ is especially grievous because it radically changes the grammatical point that Dana and Mantey are making—a grammatical point that is highly relevant to the question asked in the opening post of this thread.
The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, κα with this verse we haveὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ in Matthew 12:31 and Luke 12:32 is forceful evidence for a casual use of this preposition.
is a quote from the Greek grammar, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, by H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey.
The correct quote is,
The sentence μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα ᾿Ιωνᾶ in Mt. 12:41 and Lk 12:32 is forceful evidence for a causal use of this preposition.
There is also an error in the sentence being quoted—Lk 12:21 should read Lk 11:32—an error that should have been caught and noted in the post.
The change from ‘causal’ to ‘casual’ is especially grievous because it radically changes the grammatical point that Dana and Mantey are making—a grammatical point that is highly relevant to the question asked in the opening post of this thread.
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