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D
Who Christ died for is who he redeems, right? (You might disagree with this, so I'll go the other direction, if you do. But, for now, I'm going with you agree with that for this post.)
Redeemed. We still redeem today. We usually think of coupons when we use that word, but they're only $.50 off. What Jesus gave us was 100% off.
Another thing we use that is a redemption note is bills/American paper money. If you look at the top of an American bill, it's a promissory note from the US government. Money is a redemption note.
Would you buy ten of (whatever you would buy ten of. I'm personally thinking chocolate bars, but I have a thing about chocolate) anything and then only get one? Because if you're buying ten, you expect to get ten, right?
In like kind, you say Jesus redeemed the whole world. In 2017, that's over 7.2 billion people. That's not counting every person born and died before 2017. That's just for right about now. There's a whole lot more "the world," when we consider the number of people ever conceived.
And yet, if Jesus did that, why doesn't he collect on what he bought/redeemed? Why is he only taking a portion, (which at times was just a remnant), if he truly died for the whole world?
AND, if you don't think he redeemed the whole world, then how do you reconcile that he truly isn't saving every single person ever conceived?
Redeemed. We still redeem today. We usually think of coupons when we use that word, but they're only $.50 off. What Jesus gave us was 100% off.
Another thing we use that is a redemption note is bills/American paper money. If you look at the top of an American bill, it's a promissory note from the US government. Money is a redemption note.
Would you buy ten of (whatever you would buy ten of. I'm personally thinking chocolate bars, but I have a thing about chocolate) anything and then only get one? Because if you're buying ten, you expect to get ten, right?
In like kind, you say Jesus redeemed the whole world. In 2017, that's over 7.2 billion people. That's not counting every person born and died before 2017. That's just for right about now. There's a whole lot more "the world," when we consider the number of people ever conceived.
And yet, if Jesus did that, why doesn't he collect on what he bought/redeemed? Why is he only taking a portion, (which at times was just a remnant), if he truly died for the whole world?
AND, if you don't think he redeemed the whole world, then how do you reconcile that he truly isn't saving every single person ever conceived?
D
I completely agree with you on people have a choice. Jesus told what our choice is. He even tells us that right after "shosoever will believe."
John 3:[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
Now what? We chose darkness. End of choice, because that's all we ever chose?
Nope, that's covered too, in the very next verse, which God "carried out":
John 3:21 [FONT="]But whoever [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]does what is true [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”[/FONT]
John 3:[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
Now what? We chose darkness. End of choice, because that's all we ever chose?
Nope, that's covered too, in the very next verse, which God "carried out":
John 3:21 [FONT="]But whoever [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]does what is true [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”[/FONT]
K
Lynn,please slow down.Im not your enemy and Im not denying anything. Im pointing out what Scripture says.And throughout Scripture it shows that God has given us a choice.The Bible says "CHOOSE you this day who you will serve" and "I set before you life and death,CHOOSE life"
John 3
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Nothing denied or lied about.The whole chapter is there.
There are those who say it is all of God and none of us, as if we do not have a choice nor a role to play in choosing Him and repenting; they will say everything that man does is God's will. In fact, their stance makes God a monster who orchestrates every evil ever perpetrated by one upon another, so...
Again, let me ask you the same question. God knew all things from eternity past correct? He knew billions would reject him (freely) and some would choose him (freely according to some), but he created everything anyway. How is this view any more superior to reformed theology that teaches God is the focus of the glory and does not elevate man?
K
You can base any theology on Scripture and make it say anything you want.You must take the whole of Scripture. And the Bible makes clear we have a choice. If not there was not reason for Christ,there is no reason for any of us being here.Keep the elect in heaven and leave it at that. Why would create people just to destroy,giving them no hope or chance of being saved.No,that makes God a monster.We have the choice. Some accept and some reject.
