Where? Help me understand. The question still stands. Does God instruct Himself to be a doer of the Word, or the believer. Easy one......
Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Go back and read the origional post. where I forgot to insert quotes, Before I corrected it, I highlighted every time you used the term or spoke of the "torah" (Again, can you speak english, the word law will suffice)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Modern day pharisee?
Who is preaching law here.
you all do not know what a pharisee even is..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
A person who has faith is a doer of the word.
A person who is not a doer, may belief, but their faith is dead. Can their faith save them? No, Why? It was dead.
Falling short of the grace of God is trying to live in legalism by thinking we can make ourselves righteous and acceptable to God by doing religious activities. - Just like Paul told the Galatians.
This is the fruit of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. All works-based religions are based on this.
Some of them were trying to do what Christ had already done - just like the works-based salvationists that think they can keep themselves saved. That is a form of "ungodliness". That is falling from grace.
Galatians 5:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Those trying to be justified by the Law are those that think they can be righteous and maintain salvation by what they do or don't do. That is lawlessness in the New Covenant - not submitting to the righteousness of God in Christ and trying to establish our own.
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FreeNChrist
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You will never achieve personal holiness through self-effort. It can only be experienced by the dynamic grace of God in Jesus Christ. Paul's doxology makes it clear, "May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is Faithful, and HE will do it" (1 Thess. 5:23-24).
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FreeNChrist
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Continue reading for full context …Chris1975 said:
Titus 2:
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
It is our Lord Jesus Christ Who redeems us from all inquity and purifies us.
Leave Him out of the equation and our zealous good works are not sufficient.
Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
12 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,
(Help those with weak faith to stand)
13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
(Know the commandments of Elohim so you may know the feast's and Sabbath's for mankind and do them to be healed.)
14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
( find peace and remain in it so you may be called peacemaker to YHWH's glory and to His Son Yeshua Messiah)
15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
(See we do not condemn you or forsake you, as Moshe did when he struck the rock and he was only able to see the promised land from far away. It is written on my brothers hearts already as witness that I BELIEVE in Messiah Yeshua's Grace. I BELIEVE because I have seen the Father reveal truth to the Christian. They are fragile and children. I would be striking the rock if I where to put the whole law on any of you. It was not meant for us is the same as saying Messiah is not from us. Use common sense with me beloved of Elohim. What spiritual power wars against the holiness of YHWH Elohim, or even the Holiness of Messiah Yeshua? The Holy Spirit of Elohim Messiah who seeks to reveal all truth will overcome this spirit and the scripture that says, " Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not." Will continue to be on our heart's for your sake.
Because you have no peace! You claim to know peace and recited the glory of the cross flawlessly even but your deciples still repent daily. If I where the prophet I would count you without works or power. By practice and numbers of witness against you that bogle the mind you're heart is thoroughly against you. By on the off chance you misunderstood me you teacher's of the Grace of Elohim in the name of Messiah may you be awakened before it's to late. Shalom Shalom to you in Messiah Yahshua in the perfect love of YHWH Elohim. John Talmid
12 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,
(Help those with weak faith to stand)
13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
(Know the commandments of Elohim so you may know the feast's and Sabbath's for mankind and do them to be healed.)
14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
( find peace and remain in it so you may be called peacemaker to YHWH's glory and to His Son Yeshua Messiah)
15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
(See we do not condemn you or forsake you, as Moshe did when he struck the rock and he was only able to see the promised land from far away. It is written on my brothers hearts already as witness that I BELIEVE in Messiah Yeshua's Grace. I BELIEVE because I have seen the Father reveal truth to the Christian. They are fragile and children. I would be striking the rock if I where to put the whole law on any of you. It was not meant for us is the same as saying Messiah is not from us. Use common sense with me beloved of Elohim. What spiritual power wars against the holiness of YHWH Elohim, or even the Holiness of Messiah Yeshua? The Holy Spirit of Elohim Messiah who seeks to reveal all truth will overcome this spirit and the scripture that says, " Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not." Will continue to be on our heart's for your sake.
Because you have no peace! You claim to know peace and recited the glory of the cross flawlessly even but your deciples still repent daily. If I where the prophet I would count you without works or power. By practice and numbers of witness against you that bogle the mind you're heart is thoroughly against you. By on the off chance you misunderstood me you teacher's of the Grace of Elohim in the name of Messiah may you be awakened before it's to late. Shalom Shalom to you in Messiah Yahshua in the perfect love of YHWH Elohim. John Talmid
*** the security of the Believer is only in Christ*** life is in the Son***if we turn from Christ we must turn back or we are lost*** the Jews could not find repentance in the Law*** if they turn to Christ they can be restored...Do you see what I see?
This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. If you take a really close look at it, it's actually confirming the security of a believer.........
Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
You talk about the law like its a scourge?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law by this faith [making the Law of no effect, overthrowing it]? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law [since it convicts us all of sin, pointing to the need for salvation].
The word instruction would be the most accurate translation and because we are taught to walk according to the spirit as well. And I do know what a Pharisee is and the different schools of thought. We would call them denominations today...
You forgot the preceding verse. Verse 22: [SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from every form of evil.
You co-operate with the Lord in the Process of Sanctification. Disobedience will get you nowhere.
We never excluded Him from the equation. On the contrary, you simply do not read what we say. The above passage - if I wrote about being zealous for good works - I would be called a LEGALIST. And UNDER THE LAW by you bunch.
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FreeNChrist
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FreeNChrist
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Whose avoiding? I gave you my response. It's you who are avoiding my response.
Birds of a feather.....working for religionists.......<--The Plenteous in number that boast in their works and KNOWING JESUS.......
As for my earlier comments about Torah and the law it was in part to help see the law in light of the spirit of grace through sanctification. We can not inherit what Elohim requires which is our reasonable sacrifice by the way. When are you going to bare your cross. The flesh's ability to continue to deceive you to think you are redeemed when you ask Yeshua to forgive you again? You think I believe I have no sin. I often find another sin I wasn't even aware of let alone those I do know of. They however are in remission thank you for being concerned. I would deal better if you where actually concerned for me than concerned about me. If you loved me still and sought scripture with me I would have more to go on. The scripture that is brought up is what your religion leads you too. This is your standard not the "law" of Elohim and His Messiah Yeshua. If you have one and not the other you have neither