Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[valiant]

Actually, not so. This was the whole purpose of the parable of the prodigal son. He was in good standing with his father, he left his father, and when he came back to the father, what did the father say? "My son was dead but now he is alive." He didn't die physically, but spiritually. ("God is the God of the living, not the dead.")

a total misuse of the parable. Its central point was that the prodigal was a sinner from his youth who turned back to God, whereas the elder brother did not seem to have strayed. The one was an example of the tax collectors and sinners, the other an example of the Scribes and Pharisees. When the Father said that the younger son 'was dead', he was not referring to spiritual death, he was saying as far as he was concerned his son had been literally dead.

When we leave the Father, we are spiritually dead.

we are spiritually dead from birth

Jesus said "I tell you the truth, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man (spiritually), and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

He was saying that he who came to Him (ate of Him) and he who believed in Him (drank of Him) (6.35) would neither hunger nor thirst. He added the thought of drinking of His blood, which using OT parallels meant benefitting by His death through faith. The Lord's Supper was not in mind as it was still years away,

Does our heart beat once? No- it beats continuously to supply the whole body with blood- and the Bible says the life is in the blood.

In context this is irrelevant.

It's not enough to get baptized into Christ, you have to continuously partake of the Lords Supper, upon the first day of the week, in the assembly of the church.

we are expected to do so, but neither the literal baptism nor the literal Lord's Supper are essential for our salvation. The Quakers do neither.,

If you leave Christ's body (His church), then you leave Christ, and His blood.

So you think Christ will be maimed and crippled? Once you are a part of His body you are part for life.

If you go back to living in the world, sinning purposely, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." And "no longer" means there once did, but no longer does. (Hebrews 10:26)

He is talking to Jews who are hovering about whether to become Christians or not. If they wilfully sin there is no longer an OT sacrifice for sin, it is either Christ or judgment. He is speaking about OT sacrifices which he is saying are no longer valid.

 

[valiant]

Able is your keyword meaning for who abide in him God is able to keep him from falling.

So you are suggesting that God is able, but not willing?

 

[valiant]

You get this understanding from all the other scriptures which is why i included that. Its not hard to see it throughout scripture the only way to see Gods promises is to remain faithful. And your right leaning on God is all we need to keep us from falling.

so the faithfulness of God depends on MY faithfulness? No. My God has promised His faithfulness will not fail, even when mine does,

 

[willybob]

of course its not good.. Because they never left the pig pin of sin,, Thats why they returned to eating their vomit. Because they were NEVER made new creatures in christ by being born again, They were dogs tryign to act as new creatures, But you can only act so long before you return to what you really are..

You are implying that the mind of Christ and Peter are illogical in their makeup. Knowing this first; Jesus IS the LOGOS (logical mind of God), He cannot make illogical statements and implications, therefore we can logically assume with confidence that these examples do indeed fall away....(bible 101)

after all Jesus said the evil spirit indeed went out of the man.."ie' (he was once saved) BUT HE LATER RETURNED TO HIS FORMER WAYS OF SIN..

 

[valiant]

You are implying that the mind of Christ and Peter are illogical in their makeup. Knowing this first; Jesus IS the LOGOS (logical mind of God), He cannot make illogical statements and implications, therefore we can logically assume with confidence that these examples do indeed fall away....(bible 101)

But they fall away from the church, not from Christ

after all Jesus said the evil spirit indeed went out of the man.."ie' (he was once saved) BUT HE LATER RETURNED TO HIS FORMER WAYS OF SIN..

The point was that the man had left his heart VOID. He had NOT let Jesus in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yea, I get this understanding using other similar scriptures 'line upon line' (Isah. 28:10). Remaining faithful is another topic I guess, and like a steward, we must be found faithful.

The point is it is because of God who is able to keep us from falling an answer to Hebrews 6 wherein it says "we are not them" and "For it is impossible" .

God bless

Amen, God does not fail us, that's why our faith will never fail..

It is only those who have not truly been saved who fall into unbelief and become an antichrist.

Even John says, We are not among them..

The question should not be can we, the question should be are we the part of the real "we" who Paul and John spoke of..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are implying that the mind of Christ and Peter are illogical in their makeup. Knowing this first; Jesus IS the LOGOS (logical mind of God), He cannot make illogical statements and implications, therefore we can logically assume with confidence that these examples do indeed fall away....(bible 101)

after all Jesus said the evil spirit indeed went out of the man.."ie' (he was once saved) BUT HE LATER RETURNED TO HIS FORMER WAYS OF SIN..

As I think I suggested, and someone said earlier.

It was not the sheep who Returned to his vomit, or wallowed in his mire.

It was the dog and the pig.

They returned to their true nature, because that is who they were all along, Because they were never saved..

 

[PeterJens]

Allogories are allogories.

As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.
Prov 26:11

Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
2 Peter 2:22

Peter is quoting proverbs about behaviour.
Saying this now refers to the nature of believers being dogs or sows, is absurd.

It demonstrates how desperate people are to defend the idea believers can fall away.

It is a problem of who is saved, ie a real believer and who is not.
The same group though they claim to be saved as children, been through legalistic
churches and finally seen the "light" in their grace fellowships, regard believers as
anti-christ, dogs, pigs, carnal christians doomed to hell, yet they were not believing
the same things at the same time!!!!

It is like the formula of salvation
"Faith alone + security in faith" heaven
"Faith alone" hell

Bit tough on a young believer to know what security is.
Oh, it is being sealed in the Holy Spirit. Both groups have this.
Oh, it is conviction of salvation. Both groups have this.

So in reality both groups are saved. Amen and praise our Lord the King.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

peter stated a fact. to prove a point,

A dog returns to its vomit, because a dog is just a dog.. You can teach a dog a new trick and it can act that way, But it is still a dog.. It will always return to what it is.

I am amazed at how far people will go to continue to be stuck in their religious pride and self righteousness..

what really amazes me, Is they judge is saying we love sin, When it is they themselves who love sin, Their own sin, They just refuse to acknowledge it is sin, Refuse to admit they are sinners, and are in turn forced to judge us to make themselves feel better.

 

[Grace777x70]

Our security in in Christ and what He has already done by His finished work. It is not in our own self-righteousness. He will be faithful to us. Jesus is not a liar. He said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16

 

[JohnTalmid]

And have tasted the good word of Elohim, and the power of the world to come.

Heb. 6:5

My friends you are hung still on the rock meant to make men stumble. Please​ seek understanding on this matter. Pleading with you to find the full knowledge of the truth. Messiah said He is the way, truth, life. Here we have presented the good word of YHWH Elohim in a way to show honor to the Father of Messiah. There are many saying today that Jesus is the Christ decieved and blind leading many to distruction. In a way there are two laws of God. One leads to death and the other leads to life. Over and over again we can go back to the beginning to find example after example of when Elohim tells His people to choose blessings and not curses. We are all standing in the valley of the shadow of death and have two ways to go. We can go up one side and find life or the other which leads to death. There is also one path that leads to a fork in the road. At this fork in the road there are two ways to go and two men who stand at their mouths. One only tells the truth and the other only lies. When Messiah says beware of wolves that come in sheep's clothing he means it. These wolves are so clever they fool even the elect to serve him while convincing people they serve God. There is one question that points out the servants, whether they are instraments of light or dark. What I will ask can show you if you love God and His Messiah or the father of lies and his emissaries. Is there still a law and what is it? The law of Moses not unlike the Baptist, Penticostal, Morman, or any other Christian faith based religion leads away from the path of wisdom found through the free gift Messiah has filled with Himself. Torah means Instruction not law to us in Messiah Yeshua who have found that path. Under law there is condemnation and under instruction there is none. For example it is said of the legalistic observer that they are under a curse. They are they don't know they're on a very broad path leading to death. Is Messiah unable to save? No He is able. Where they failed to see the full knowledge of the truth however has enabled the Adversary to overcome them. As far as Hebrews is concerned I have witnessed the true Judeiser convert my brother to the Jewish Religion forsaking the Messiah. This is the most difficult teaching to grasp bering there are many of you who have never come to the knowledge of the full truth. How else could Shaul have shared, " I keep the whole Torah"? How could he have gone through the cleansing within the temple? What was the way Israel was found wanting? They where not obedient or faithful. What is it that YHWH Elohim wants more than sacrifices or fat of the sacrifice? Obedience and hearing and doing is what the prophets say is better. Messiah said there is only one that is good and His true family does the will of His Father in Heaven. Put away childish things friends and move on past the basic truth in Messiah to maturity. If the man who sins may approach Elohim now in what way is a man to do it. I have already seen the truth and he has set me free to release the captives. It is up to you to hear and do.

 

[PeterJens]

As a quick note Peter is talking about sinners who have left the world of
lusts of the flesh to walk in righteousness, go back to this world.

How this relates to being religious passes me by, but then people can missapply
almost anything in scripture, without any problems.

There must be an automatic condemnation setting being applied, lol.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Our security in in Christ and what He has already done by His finished work. It is not in our own self-righteousness. He will be faithful to us. Jesus is not a liar. He said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16

If you have been​ born of the spirit. The Torah is of the spirit. If not then you can be sure you are not walking in the full truth.

 

[JohnTalmid]

As a quick note Peter is talking about sinners who have left the world of
lusts of the flesh to walk in righteousness, go back to this world.

How this relates to being religious passes me by, but then people can missapply
almost anything in scripture, without any problems.

There must be an automatic condemnation setting being applied, lol.

True religion is the unadulterated Instruction of YHWH Elohim if followed in love all while remembering the testimony of Messiah. What else was available to the Apostles for correction and instruction in righteousness. Anything outside of the loving instruction of Torah is not religion it is doctrine of men and demon.

 

[valiant]

True religion is the unadulterated Instruction of YHWH Elohim if followed in love all while remembering the testimony of Messiah. What else was available to the Apostles for correction and instruction in righteousness. Anything outside of the loving instruction of Torah is not religion it is doctrine of men and demon.

What of the prophets? What of Christ Himself? What about the Apostles.? They were all outside the loving instruction of the Torah,

 

[brighthouse98]

Sometimes brothers and sister someone is on here believing themselves to be the judge of the rest of us when it is they themselves who need the correction. They forget rom 12:3 and forget that all only have a part of the truth( 1 Cor 13:12!!) So rather then get upset at these people brothers and sisters just look at them as I do, they are a matt 7:6 sernerio and placed on my pay no mind list. lol

 

[brighthouse98]

A great example of this is shown in Acts 8:9-25 In short Philp was not bothered at all by Simon,Philip preached the truth in love and those who sought found.( matt 7:7) While we find out what Simon wanted all along,he did not care at all about the Word,he only wanted the power to further deceive the people.LOl Simon could not even pray!! verse 24!!I would not have wanted to be Simon after they left without praying for him! verse 25 never does say if they did or not! verse 23 bitterness refers to simons apostasy. ( Deut 29:18)

 

[Grace777x70]

If you have been​ born of the spirit. The Torah is of the spirit. If not then you can be sure you are not walking in the full truth.

The true word of God is Jesus Himself - not the Torah of Moses. Christians have nothing to do with the law of Moses now. It's done it's job and brought us to Christ. We live by the law of Christ in us now.

 

[Mike777]

Let's face it - everyone that doesn't believe with you is a false teacher. Everyone that doesn't dress like you is ungodly in your mind which you posted before.

I don't think most people are interested in your brand of religion. Learning of Christ that is in us is far better...but you are free to malign other brethren in the body of Christ all you want.

Has anyone noticed the tendency of Believers that think we lose our salvation by committing sins are often mean spirited,
condescending and lack gracefulness in their speech. If we believe we are righteous people we are actually walking according to the flesh and manifesting the results of doing so, the lack of patience, condensation and pride. Its with great wisdom that God has designed our walk with him as its very difficult to fake the fruit of the spirit.

 

[Grace777x70]

Has anyone noticed the tendency of Believers that think we lose our salvation by committing sins are often mean spirited,
condescending and lack gracefulness in their speech. If we believe we are righteous people we are actually walking according to the flesh and manifesting the results of doing so, the lack of patience, condensation and pride. Its with great wisdom that God has designed our walk with him as its very difficult to fake the fruit of the spirit.

I have noticed that. If one of the sacred cows of our church teachings has a knife to it's throat. We can get upset and the "fur" can fly in our "defending of the faith and our believe that we are rightly dividing the word of truth". But we are just defending our church teachings and traditions which have become a stronghold in our minds.

But to be truthful we all can also be "grace Pharisees" too and do not exhibit the "grace" we talk about as well. I think all of us need to be wary of the flesh in all it's deceitfulness.