Not By Works

[Roughsoul1991]

Never said it did bro.......so your whole post is based on an erroneous view.....the context is the works produced by saved believers.......and what they are compared to....soooooo?

Lol that was only a small portion of my post explaining what you asked me in the very last portion. Explaining why your question was irrelevant. But my questions i asked you followed by your answers told me a lot of whats wrong with Calvinist belief. Really all of your points to defend Calvinism can be proven wrong.

 

[BenFTW]

Jesus was born the SON of God....he did not have to work to become the Son of God.....

WE are BORN the Sons of GOD...we do not have to WORK to become the Sons of GOD.....

BORN of incorruptible SEED.....SPIRITUALLY.......

[h=1]Romans 8:15 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.[/FONT]

 

[fredoheaven]

I should add however, that confessing is not the only action we can take that would cause our faith to move in a situation and bear fruit. The bible is full of physical acts that corresponded with their confession of faith. Abraham is a classic example. He believed God would raise his son from the dead if he sacrificed him, because he had God's word that Isaac was the one through whom Abraham would be a father of many nations. We know this not only because the writer of Hebrews says so, but in Gen 22:5 Abraham tells the young men that he and the lad are going to worship "and come again to you." He spoke his faith right there.

Not that writer of Hebrews says so in regard to the faith of Abraham. His faith is counted for righteousness as the Bible says. Now as a result of his faith he confessed it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Lol that was only a small portion of my post explaining what you asked me in the very last portion. Explaining why your question was irrelevant. But my questions i asked you followed by your answers told me a lot of whats wrong with Calvinist belief. Really all of your points to defend Calvinism can be proven wrong.

This even adds to the ignorance of your statement....no where have I ever embraced and or pushed Calvinist views....more cake taking I see....geesh, is this all you can do is accuse erroneously and in ignorance?

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 8:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

AMEN bro.......someone who adds to the conversation spiritually....a nice refreshing moment!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

This even adds to the ignorance of your statement....no where have I ever embraced and or pushed Calvinist views....more cake taking I see....geesh, is this all you can do is accuse erroneously and in ignorance?

You dont have to. I have spoken with you long enough to see where your beliefs are largely held.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

But thats the thing when OSAS believers cant defend against evidence many revert to meaningless words and ignore the evidence from a differing belief. Which is why some get tired of posting evidence because the opposition ignores it.

 

[fredoheaven]

Faith in Christ to be your personal savior is indeed enough to save us. However, faith without a corresponding action is simply believing, and we are not saved by believing that Jesus is our savior.
Understand if you can, that the works I speak of, are not the same as good works. That would be like calling Jesus' work of raising Lazarus from the dead a good work or good deed. It was not, and neither is the kind of work I am talking about. They are works of faith not good works, which is of the law. Works of faith cause God to move on your behalf, where good works or works of the law anyone can do without God's help.
It also has nothing to do with earning our salvation or righteousness.

This is a self-defeat statement of yours. You said “Faith in Christ to be your personal savior is indeed enough to save us” yet with an innuendo for needing a corresponding action in order to be saved which further you said that we are not saved by simply believing that Jesus is Saviour. What you are trying to point out is that which goes to a certain ‘ hype’ which one may only believe the ‘historic’ or events that happened to our Saviour. Let me help a little in here, for me I will always found that in order to be saved we must believe on HIM (person) such believing on Him will always believe his works or message. If I but to analyze, such believing only as you are saying is that one is of having only a “historic belief” perhaps a mental assent that which cannot saved. I know this. that if faith doesn’t work then it is dead! Absolutely you are correct! That’s dead and there is no faith at all. Interesting though, you are just referring to faith that works not to mean as good works we do or those righteous acts/deeds. The faith that doesn’t work = unbelief. He has no faith at all in the saving work of Christ or on the Saviour. Here it means he is to disagree with that Christ finished work of Calvary is not enough to save.. “Thy faith saved thee” sayeth Christ, so the faith must work and that faith doesn’t work at all is the faith that doesn’t entirely trust Christ to save him, thus needs something like ‘until confession is made.’ But Yes! We are just to simply “believe on Him.”

BTW, the confession in the book of Romans is about the Lord Jesus Christ and not the confession of sins as in 1 John. It is about saying something about our Lord Jesus Christ as the preceding verse says hence that this the work of the believer like Apostle Paul is doing, he simply preach Christ. That’s simple if we let the scripture be the final authority.
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

To illustrate further that this confession or belief that cannot saved while it’s worth believing in the ‘Baptist Confession of Faith’ cannot save one. It’s only Christ and Christ alone acted through faith and that not of yourselves. Ephes. 2:8

Now we come to the order of the word because it is written that way

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

In v.8 “we preach;” is followed by a semi-colon.The usage of this punctuation mark is made “… between two main clauses that balance each other and are too closely linked to be made into separate sentences”. It connects closely related ideas using conjuctive adverbs or transitional phrases. When a semicolon is used to join two or more ideas (parts) in a sentence, those ideas are then given equal position or rank.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/semicolon
Grammar and Punctuation: Using Semicolons

Thus, preach simply means confession in this instance.

In verse 9, after the transational phrases“Lord Jesus Christ” is Comma (,)
“In general, the comma shows that the words immediately before the comma are less closely or exclusively linked grammatically to those immediately after the comma than they might be otherwise.” And the next phrase in v.9 is said to be independent “less closely”. Therefore, the reading would indicate that is is by believing in “thine heart” that a person is saved.

Romans 10:9b and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma

 

[fredoheaven]

Let me give you one example of faith.
Let's just say you start to feel a sore throat coming on, with a headache, and a stuffed up nose. And someone comes along as says, "you don't look so well", and believing the symptoms to that of a cold you say, "yeah, I think I'm coming down with a cold."
How is that faith you might ask?
You believed in your heart that it was a cold based on your symptoms and spoke it out of your mouth.
You spoke what you believed in your heart. That is what the bible refers to as a work of faith or a word of faith in the negative.
Haven't you read that both "death and life is in the power of the tongue?" It's not in the thought, intents, mind, imagination, beliefs,... or anything else other than the tongue. And to use the tongue is do a work. I already showed how Jesus called His healings and casting out unclean spirits, works. Of which were done simply by speaking faith words.
What about the below verses?

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth [or causes it to manifest in the natural] that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth [or causes it to manifest in the natural] that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

No sir, it not just in Romans, but all through the bible. I can show you multiple places in both the old and new testament that talks about people of God confessing their faith.

Your example of faith is good but I would love the reasoning comes from the scripture “out of scripture”. But thanks anyway because this displays what you really believed in your heart is expressed through your mouth.

Luke 6:45b “…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

What really in the Bible if one believes then what happened? The Bible says we are saved, and we are justified, we have eternal life.The Bible is plain to those who believe as on the above verses I cited and quoted but here’s few more.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:16a “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace;”

The above verses shows that by faith is unto righteousness as in the passage of Romans 10.

 

[fredoheaven]

Haven't you read that both "death and life is in the power of the tongue?" It's not in the thought, intents, mind, imagination, beliefs,... or anything else other than the tongue. And to use the tongue is do a work. I already showed how Jesus called His healings and casting out unclean spirits, works. Of which were done simply by speaking faith words.

Of course this proverbial saying is not talking about God’s righteousness but rather on blessing and cursing as the whole chapter may entail.

 

[fredoheaven]

No sir, it not just in Romans, but all through the bible. I can show you multiple places in both the old and new testament that talks about people of God confessing their faith.

The issue is confessing for what? And I am have given you my counterpoint against “your until confession is made” which if properly understood it is not about the earning or gaining of one’s salvation and that this confession is nothing but indeed the works of faith of every believer.

1 Thes. 1: 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[OneFaith]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Our obedience does not earn our salvation, you are correct. HOWEVER, even though ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God, there are a group of people who will be saved- what is this group? Is it the Elect/Christians? No! But the group is within that group- The VERY Elect/Christians who believe AND obey till the very end.

So the group thats saved is the obedient group. Their obedience does not earn the Gift, but they will be the only group chosen by God to receive It.

"For if it is HARD for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

 

[JIMBO43]

No doubt.....they view it as gambling......if I stated my view I might get banned......!

ha thats rich coming from someone who gambles on the lottery.

Your pension is your due for working hard all your life. Just like your salvation is your Due Of Hope and prayer..

Now if you retire with a pension most of the times its because the employer reconises its because he needs workers and not people who are struggling to work dew to old age.. hardly a gamble pal..

You can do part time volantry work if you desire... Just like the volantry work that Jesus passes on to his sons and daughters

 

[JIMBO43]

I enjoy good fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Would that be the Brothers and sisters you favor the most or would that be all and potential ? remember God does not show favoritism accept if you can be Humble as he favors this and resists the proud..

 

[JIMBO43]

Our obedience does not earn our salvation, you are correct. HOWEVER, even though ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God, there are a group of people who will be saved- what is this group? Is it the Elect/Christians? No! But the group is within that group- The VERY Elect/Christians who believe AND obey till the very end.

So the group thats saved is the obedient group. Their obedience does not earn the Gift, but they will be the only group chosen by God to receive It.

"For if it is HARD for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Even the rightouse can be didobediant when there rightouseness Goes to there Head..

 

[BillG]

oh do you really ?

Is your spiritual pension a sin too ?..

i said I know of others. I myself invest in a pension

 

[JIMBO43]

My beliefs are i hardly think someone who has dedicated there life to lord who slip up and be disobediant to God punishable by eternal punishment.... noo it is written there is spiritual prison...maybe they Go there untill they accept there faults and repent

 

[JIMBO43]

i said I know of others. I myself invest in a pension

You said you know of a few who believe it is a sin to invest in a pension.. why is it a sin why do they believe that utter nonsence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our obedience does not earn our salvation, you are correct. HOWEVER, even though ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God, there are a group of people who will be saved- what is this group? Is it the Elect/Christians? No! But the group is within that group- The VERY Elect/Christians who believe AND obey till the very end.

So the group thats saved is the obedient group. Their obedience does not earn the Gift, but they will be the only group chosen by God to receive It.

"For if it is HARD for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Since Gods standard of obedience is perfection. An not one, but Christ ever lived, or will ever life up to that standard. (As Moses and Paul confirmed, One must obey ever word written, even Breaker the least of the law, as James affirmed, makes us guilty of the whole law)

What is your standard of obedience one must attain to gain or earn salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus was born the SON of God....he did not have to work to become the Son of God.....

WE are BORN the Sons of GOD...we do not have to WORK to become the Sons of GOD.....

BORN of incorruptible SEED.....SPIRITUALLY.......

There you have it.. Well said bro!!