Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

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The gifts of the Spirit were given to the church and were never taken away, that is the bible. On the other hand, much of what today is called operating in the gifts of the Spirit is not, just folks pretending to have something they do not have.
 
zone said:
what's lost in the revival (Methodism) narratives is that the districts covered by the revivals were shortly thereafter "burned over" by sin and global unbelief.

contemporaries to Finney's revival aftermath said it would be generations before the gospel might flourish there again.

just because men develop methods with which to call men to the "anxious bench"/repentance doesn't mean what takes place is some huge miraculous work of God. it's the fruit afterwards that tells.

just look at things like the Pensacola "revival"; Brownsville; Toronto, etc <<-- what do we do with monster movements like them that were so full of unbiblical stuff
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My children are a "product" of the brownsville revival.

You are going by what you were erroneously told.

In fact,my children were beginning to concern me with their apathy,which seemed to be taking ahold of them ,mainly from peers.

I very skeptically went to Pensacola around 1996 and was absolutely disarmed by the awesome presence of God there.
We subsequently sold our posessins,3 rent houses,bought a travel trailer,and moved there with kids and dogs,to be in possibly the greatest revival America has ever seen.
Saw nothing,I MEAN NOTHING, unbiblical.

Now,over time I did see a few things,as would be expected from any gathering of MILLIONS of people to a single location.

And btw,if unbiblical happenings,are the criteria,then Jesus ministry failed,and subsequent failures in the body of Christ PROVES, all of Christendom itself to be a fraud.
 
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Chester said:
Maybe I missed it, but I looked over the thread and did not see anyone clearly give all the NT references that use the terminology "baptism (baptized, etc.) of the Spirit.

There are seven of them:

four spoken by John the Baptist - Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:7; Luke 3:16; John 1:33
one spoken by Jesus after His resurrection - Acts 1:4,5
one at the story of Cornelius - Acts 11:15-17
one speaks of the wider experience of believers - I Corinthians 12:13

Some would add references like Romans 6:3,4 to this list, but since this text does not say exactly "baptized with the Spirit" I will leave it out of the discussion:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3,4

Notice the following about these seven references:
(1) The four Scriptures spoken by John the Baptist point to the fact that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit. But, nowhere in the Gospels does this happen - Jesus never spoke about it in the Gospels and it is never mentioned! ”
(2) Then in Acts 1:5 the subject comes up again. After the cross and resurrection have occurred and just before he ascends, Jesus says, “John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Clearly Pentecost will be the fulfillment of the baptism of the Spirit.
(3) The reference in Acts 11:15-17 (story of Cornelius) refers back to what happened at Pentecost as well as to what happens here to Cornelius and his household. Thus six of the seven references very clearly refer to the event at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down and for the first time permanently indwelt the disciples - and for the first time they were “born again” (my understanding) and Holy Spirit indwelt them as are believers today. Especially clear here is Verse 17: “when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ”.
(4) My conclusion from the above is that baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at the new birth when we believe in Jesus. It is a moment in time event when we are born again - and the Holy Spirit then comes and indwells the believer.
(5) The last reference - I Corinthians 12:13 - “For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free.” This verse speaks of the wider experience of all Christians and ties the new birth into our becoming part of the church - the bride of Christ.


I would not say a study of these Scriptures is conclusive on the point - but I think it points to the truth that the baptism of the Spirit happens at the new birth when we believe in Christ. Baptism of the Spirit is a one time event, but we are to be ongoingly continually filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18). As someone else said earlier; one baptism, many fillings.
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Cessationists leave out the references in the bible of the second work of the HS.

I wonder why?
 
samuel23 said:
The gifts of the Spirit were given to the church and were never taken away, that is the bible. On the other hand, much of what today is called operating in the gifts of the Spirit is not, just folks pretending to have something they do not have.
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agree with you that much is not. But when the real is done by the holy Spirit that work of HIM cannot be denied.
 
1 Corinthians 12New International Version (NIV)

Concerning Spiritual Gifts
12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

****so how do you determine which gifts God has given you and how do you find your place in the Body of Christ?
 
Right now I don't feel like I understand much. When I feel smarter, I will try and post something coherent.
 
Ariel82 said:
1 Corinthians 12New International Version (NIV)

Concerning Spiritual Gifts
12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

****so how do you determine which gifts God has given you and how do you find your place in the Body of Christ?
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*************First walk in the light as He is in the light (1 John 1:7)-----pray and ask God about your gifts and calling----if you are persistent you will begin to see God's plan----if you know any genuine prophetic people---they can give you insight into what God has for you...Grace and Peace
 
FF to 17:10 over 200 people raised from the dead.

[video=youtube;Jhn8GrS8bR8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhn8GrS8bR8[/video]
 
David Hogan -

https://testallthings.com/2007/03/19/david-hogan/



A Mexican man named Alvin LaVaughn Landry was a lifelong friend of Hogan’s and served in Hogan’s mission from 1983-1993. Few have been closer. Landry openly disclosed that:
“David’s problems go way back and he has been telling tall tales his whole life. I have caught him in so many lies that I have lost track.”
He was then asked if Hogan was a pathological liar. Alvin Landry said, “Yes”
Landry says:
“David picks up people to work for him that are insecure or with troubled backgrounds or in a crisis. His main thing is control. He controls like a gang leader. … He uses all kinds of profanity and covers it by saying that you should say all that is in your heart. He has expressed very immoral and vulgar things about women using the rationale that if you say it out, you won’t do it. … He treats women like mules. … His authority can’t be challenged. … Somebody needs to stand up. … He has serious mental problems.”

Now the problem with people claims power to raise people from the dead,
show us one. Where is there one person other than David who testifies
to this reality.

Pathological liars can never be relied on to speak the truth.
So much stuff sounds great, if true, but it can be just too much.

If you have someone who knows the guy close and personal and testifies
as he is a pathological liar, he has to have something on the other side
to balance it out.

And if these guys are the examples of the power of God working, God help
your view of Gods reality.
 
Matthew 11:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you hear and see:

[SUP]5 [/SUP] the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.[SUP]6 [/SUP] "And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."


Mark 16:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


1 Corinthians 12:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] To another faith by the same to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

[SUP]11 [/SUP] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Romans 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
 
Sigh! You can't tell me nothing new about Pentecostalism, I was in it for years. Where Pentecostals really miss it is that they believe that if there is a spiritual power in evidence in a Christian meeting that it has to be the Holy Spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. People can be using the words God and Jesus and spirit and people can be falling down and running into walls and shaking all over...AND IT IS NOT GOD! Jesus said that at the end of the age there would be false anointed ones(Christ), all you hear about in Pentecostal meetings is about someone with the anointing. The origin of Pentecostalism was one of demonic spirits and disarray, ever wonder why the Pentecostal movement chose to ignore the word of God that says a woman should not be in authority over a man in the church? Because following the word of God would cramp the style of the demons in that movement. To sum this up, feeling a spiritual power in a meeting does not mean that that power is God.
 
samuel23 said:
Sigh! You can't tell me nothing new about Pentecostalism, I was in it for years. Where Pentecostals really miss it is that they believe that if there is a spiritual power in evidence in a Christian meeting that it has to be the Holy Spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. People can be using the words God and Jesus and spirit and people can be falling down and running into walls and shaking all over...AND IT IS NOT GOD! Jesus said that at the end of the age there would be false anointed ones(Christ), all you hear about in Pentecostal meetings is about someone with the anointing. The origin of Pentecostalism was one of demonic spirits and disarray, ever wonder why the Pentecostal movement chose to ignore the word of God that says a woman should not be in authority over a man in the church? Because following the word of God would cramp the style of the demons in that movement. To sum this up, feeling a spiritual power in a meeting does not mean that that power is God.
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The problem is always emotional projection.
We always only feel what is within us. We project that the other party is
feeling the same thing, but it will always just be us creating in us the feeling we
think they are going through. It is a sad reality of life.

It is why we need to be wise as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Praise the Lord wherever you are, and know God is always with you.
The Lord does not arrive at a meeting, He walks in with you.
The Lord may fall with the Spirit on people, or it maybe something else.

The enemy cannot touch us, so walk tall, and know your King.
The truth of people will always come out into the light in time.
 
Scripture teaches that it is appointed to man once to die then judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Why would God go about and raise people from the dead only to die again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
samuel23 said:
Sigh! You can't tell me nothing new about Pentecostalism, I was in it for years. Where Pentecostals really miss it is that they believe that if there is a spiritual power in evidence in a Christian meeting that it has to be the Holy Spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. People can be using the words God and Jesus and spirit and people can be falling down and running into walls and shaking all over...AND IT IS NOT GOD! Jesus said that at the end of the age there would be false anointed ones(Christ), all you hear about in Pentecostal meetings is about someone with the anointing. The origin of Pentecostalism was one of demonic spirits and disarray, ever wonder why the Pentecostal movement chose to ignore the word of God that says a woman should not be in authority over a man in the church? Because following the word of God would cramp the style of the demons in that movement. To sum this up, feeling a spiritual power in a meeting does not mean that that power is God.
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That is your opinion this post is not about Pentecostals as I stated before . smh
 
notuptome said:
Scripture teaches that it is appointed to man once to die then judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Why would God go about and raise people from the dead only to die again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I think that is a good question and it can be answered in the bible found in John chapter 11 Jesus raised [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Lazarus from the dead . Jesus was touched by the pain of those who loved Lazarus this is why the shortest verse in the New testament is " "Jesus wept". if you go back to John 9 two chapter earlier you see the disciples asking a question about the Blind man and who had sinned that he was born this way . what did Jesus say? John 9:3"[/FONT]Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."
:4 says " I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work."

 Jesus raised the dead for many reasons the bible say HE did for :
1. to show HIS love
2. to show HIS Power
3. To teach His followers

Jesus said in John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] We are to do the Works that Jesus did so HE get the glory. Heal in His name , cast out devils , pray for the sick , Lead the lost to Christ. to your answer Jesus raised the dead to prove HE was God and the raising of Lazarus from the dead was the most power miracle to the Jews that the bible says People from all over came to see this man and we see later in John's account Lazarus was with HIM eating. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]

[/FONT]
 
popeye said:
Cessationists leave out the references in the bible of the second work of the HS.

I wonder why?
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Because their are no references in the bible of that what you called second work of the Holy Spirit
 
CS1 said:
answer to:
Wolf,
good question,

The context of what Joel's prophecy in the Old testament was not fully understood would you agree? But Peter explained what this event was in the book of Acts capture 2:21, and 38-39 . yes it is for the Jews amen and the Greek word Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord and verse 39 states "even as many as the Lord shall call" . Did the lord call you ? amen are you saved ? amen . The contactual meaning is not complete in the book of Joel. it is in context in the book of Acts chapter 2
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Hi CS1, i would say Joel was in acts 2 only partly fulfilled
It will be complete fulfilled in future. It has to do, according my understanding with the time when JESUS will be accept as Messajah from the Jews.
 
CS1 said:
I would agree with but you have to over look what Peter said in Acts chapter 2 to have that understanding we are spiritual Israel are we not? are we not the adopted children ? All flesh is all flesh. and That is what happened in the book of Acts.
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No, I don't think that we are spiritual Israel. We are adopter yes, according Romans chapter 9-11. Why Joel should mean Jews and Gentiles together, if the context clear is spoken to the Jews?
 
wolfwint said:
No, I don't think that we are spiritual Israel. We are adopter yes, according Romans chapter 9-11. Why Joel should mean Jews and Gentiles together, if the context clear is spoken to the Jews?
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the reason why is we are adopted into the family of God. and a adopted son has all rights as a nature born son correct? So if salvation came to the Jews which it did and the Spirit came on them as HE did . the same salvation saved the gentile. The Same Holy Spirit empowered the gentiles as HE did the Jews . yes Peter did explain this wonderful event in Acts 2. But he also said this was for all that the Lord should call.
 
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