We know the Rapture is false teaching. Revelation 9:4 tells us how we will get through the rough times. That is if you are a follower of Christ. If you are not the 7 year period has been shortened to 5 months. Matthew 24:22 Jesus tells us it must be shortened. And Revelation 9:5 tells us its 5 months.
Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
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My posts 482 and 483 clearly reveal the pre-trib rapture of the Church teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke John and Paul. Now show me where Jesus returns to heaven with the Church AFTER His second coming, in Rev.19:11-21, WITH His Church from heaven in verse 14. Otherwise your views are false! That is what Jn.14:2-3 and 28 clearly reveal, and what Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.4:15, when he sad, "By the word of the Lord..." and goes on to describe the pre-trib rapture of the church in verses 16 and 17.
Quasar92
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Galatians 4
Hagar and Sarah
…27For it is written: “Rejoice, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman, than of her who has a husband.” 28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of the promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.…
Romans 9:8
So it is not the children of the flesh who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
Hagar and Sarah
…27For it is written: “Rejoice, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman, than of her who has a husband.” 28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of the promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.…
Romans 9:8
So it is not the children of the flesh who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
PLEASE POST BACK if you see it -
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
There is no second coming of the Son of man which spoke of the temporal flesh of Christ . We do not know Christ after the flesh.The one time demonstration is over.
He is already here in Spirit with the saints reigning with Him we are in the last days. Reminding whosoever does not have the Spirit of Christ simply do not belong to Him.
On the last day it will judgement day as well as the second resurrection when those on earth still reigning with Christ will be drawn up together with the sleeping saints that had part in the first resurrection, when Christ said; it is finished the veil being rent indicating the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit had come to demonstrate the work of the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world . The Son of man received no worship in respect to His flesh as that seen. God who remains without form resists the idea of Him having flesh as a what He calls a daysman
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that "spirit of antichrist", whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1John 4:3
Again in chapter one (is come) not will come.
2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist
Is come as in not coming again in that way for another demonstration .
He has come in the flesh born of it as that which He declared profited for nothing.
There is no prophecy that says he would come in the flesh more than once. There will be no more fleshly demonstration of the invisible work of God’s Holy Spirit (Christ)
As new creatures waiting for a new incorruptible body we are to know no man after the flesh even though a few did when he was here. One demonstration is what he planned and executed by a work of His faith pouring out His Spirit not seen.
The Holy Spirit reveals the one time demonstration is over and we no longer know Jesus as the s Son of man referring to the temporal flesh he used for that demonstration. We walk by faith not by outward appearance, as if God was a man as us.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16
He is already here in Spirit with the saints reigning with Him we are in the last days. Reminding whosoever does not have the Spirit of Christ simply do not belong to Him.
On the last day it will judgement day as well as the second resurrection when those on earth still reigning with Christ will be drawn up together with the sleeping saints that had part in the first resurrection, when Christ said; it is finished the veil being rent indicating the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit had come to demonstrate the work of the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world . The Son of man received no worship in respect to His flesh as that seen. God who remains without form resists the idea of Him having flesh as a what He calls a daysman
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that "spirit of antichrist", whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1John 4:3
Again in chapter one (is come) not will come.
2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist
Is come as in not coming again in that way for another demonstration .
He has come in the flesh born of it as that which He declared profited for nothing.
There is no prophecy that says he would come in the flesh more than once. There will be no more fleshly demonstration of the invisible work of God’s Holy Spirit (Christ)
As new creatures waiting for a new incorruptible body we are to know no man after the flesh even though a few did when he was here. One demonstration is what he planned and executed by a work of His faith pouring out His Spirit not seen.
The Holy Spirit reveals the one time demonstration is over and we no longer know Jesus as the s Son of man referring to the temporal flesh he used for that demonstration. We walk by faith not by outward appearance, as if God was a man as us.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16
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The following Scriptural facts refute your above composition. Where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible, or eschatology in particular.
Scriptural proof for the pre-tribrapture of the Church:
The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!
The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:
1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Rev.19:11:21, ending the seven years of tribulation.
2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.
3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.
Quasar92
In Matt 24 and Luke 13 Jesus clearly described a rapture of the church after the tribulation. This was accepted by the church until after 1830 when a false teacher named John Darby proposed the idea that Jesus did not mean the church when he described the rapture of the church. His idea was absurd but it caught on because it gave a possible loop hole to get out of the tribulation that Jesus had said the church would go through.
F
there is an actual description...
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
THIS CLEARLY STATES THERE IS A LITERAL RAPTURE OF THE ELECT....
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
THIS CLEARLY STATES THERE IS A LITERAL RAPTURE OF THE ELECT....
F
HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE EARLY TEACHINGS OF A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE, FRIEND AND THERE ARE MANY OTHERS AS WELL ALL HAPPENING PRIOR TO DARBY...
The rapture doctrine has been around since the 1st century A.D.
95-150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas. 2
"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly." (documented by Larry V. Crutchfield) 3
270-303 AD, Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic ecclesiastical writer preached it.
Victorinus said he saw another great and wonderful sign in his commentary on Book of Revelation in AD 270:
"Seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them is completed the indignation of God. And these shall be in the last times when the church shall have gone out of the midst."
No doubt about it, St. Victorinus proclaimed the pretrib Rapture. 4
306-373 AD Ephrem the Syrian. One of the most important evidences for rapture is an apocalyptic sermon from the 4th century titled “Sermon on the End of the World”. It is credited to Ephrem the Syrian, a Syriac deacon, theologian, and hymnographer of the 4th century who wrote many biblical commentaries. Some suggest it may not have been written until a later date of 565-627 A.D. The exact date doesn’t matter. Even if it were as late as the 7th century, it is still 1100 years prior to John Darby. Ephrem wrote:
“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
400 AD, Jerome in the Latin vulgate (in the Catholic Bible) used the word rapimur which means "rapture", or "caught up" to describe the Rapture. Jerome is actually the man who first coined the term – Rapture. 6
F
HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE EARLY REFERENCES TO A PRE-TRIB DOCTRINE...THERE ARE MANY MORE...
The rapture doctrine has been around since the 1st century A.D.
95-150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas. 2
"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly." (documented by Larry V. Crutchfield) 3
270-303 AD, Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic ecclesiastical writer preached it.
Victorinus said he saw another great and wonderful sign in his commentary on Book of Revelation in AD 270:
"Seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them is completed the indignation of God. And these shall be in the last times when the church shall have gone out of the midst."
No doubt about it, St. Victorinus proclaimed the pretrib Rapture. 4
306-373 AD Ephrem the Syrian. One of the most important evidences for rapture is an apocalyptic sermon from the 4th century titled “Sermon on the End of the World”. It is credited to Ephrem the Syrian, a Syriac deacon, theologian, and hymnographer of the 4th century who wrote many biblical commentaries. Some suggest it may not have been written until a later date of 565-627 A.D. The exact date doesn’t matter. Even if it were as late as the 7th century, it is still 1100 years prior to John Darby. Ephrem wrote:
“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
400 AD, Jerome in the Latin vulgate (in the Catholic Bible) used the word rapimur which means "rapture", or "caught up" to describe the Rapture. Jerome is actually the man who first coined the term – Rapture. 6
The rapture doctrine has been around since the 1st century A.D.
95-150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas. 2
"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly." (documented by Larry V. Crutchfield) 3
270-303 AD, Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic ecclesiastical writer preached it.
Victorinus said he saw another great and wonderful sign in his commentary on Book of Revelation in AD 270:
"Seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them is completed the indignation of God. And these shall be in the last times when the church shall have gone out of the midst."
No doubt about it, St. Victorinus proclaimed the pretrib Rapture. 4
306-373 AD Ephrem the Syrian. One of the most important evidences for rapture is an apocalyptic sermon from the 4th century titled “Sermon on the End of the World”. It is credited to Ephrem the Syrian, a Syriac deacon, theologian, and hymnographer of the 4th century who wrote many biblical commentaries. Some suggest it may not have been written until a later date of 565-627 A.D. The exact date doesn’t matter. Even if it were as late as the 7th century, it is still 1100 years prior to John Darby. Ephrem wrote:
“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
400 AD, Jerome in the Latin vulgate (in the Catholic Bible) used the word rapimur which means "rapture", or "caught up" to describe the Rapture. Jerome is actually the man who first coined the term – Rapture. 6
The rapture of the church has been around since 33ad when Jesus gave it to Peter, Andrew, James, and John and told them to teach that doctrine to the church. However the rapture of the church Jesus described would occur after the tribulation period according to Jesus Himself. The New Testament church most definitely believed in a post-trib rapture of the church because that is the rapture of the church that Jesus gave to the church. The clear teaching of a pre-trib rapture that we have today was started by John Darby around 1830. One can look up pre-trib rapture in an encyclopedia and it will tell you that John Darby around 1830 started the present day belief in a pre-trib rapture. There is a literal post-trib rapture described several times in the bible but there is no such thing as a literal pre-trib rapture in the bible.
1Thess 4:16-18 is a clear description of the post-trib rapture of the church that Jesus gave the church through the apostles. Paul was describing the same rapture of the church that Jesus had already given to the church...post-trib. There was a church before Paul that had to have been post-trib because that was what Jesus gave the church. When Paul joined the church he would have had to have accepted the post-trib rapture that the church was already believing in. Paul clearly described the same rapture that Jesus described.
