THE RAPTURE

[miknik5]

They were resurrected and seen walking the streets.

I don't have an answer. I know HE is the first from the dead so I know no man can precede H so those who died before HIM could not enter in until HE opened the way through HIS BODY

but the truth that many saw these bodies rise I am not sure that this necessarily means that they were raised bodily into heaven but only that a visible sign was given to all men to stop and understand what SPIRITUALLY and hidden (if GOD does not make it known by a visible sign) what happened

All I know and understand is that HE led those souls who were in captivity captive in HIS "TRAIN"

 

[popeye]

I don't have an answer. I know HE is the first from the dead so I know no man can precede H so those who died before HIM could not enter in until HE opened the way through HIS BODY

but the truth that many saw these bodies rise I am not sure that this necessarily means that they were raised bodily into heaven but only that a visible sign was given to all men to stop and understand what SPIRITUALLY and hidden (if GOD does not make it known by a visible sign) what happened

All I know and understand is that HE led those souls who were in captivity captive in HIS "TRAIN"

Your comment made me think.

Jesus ascended a few days after his resurrection (unless he came back)

Makes me wonder if that is why they walked around Jerusalem for a while.

I don't know if anyone understands the need for a body in heaven,but the ones resurrected do eat as Jesus exhibited after his resurrection into a glorified body.

 

[miknik5]

Your comment made me think.

Jesus ascended a few days after his resurrection (unless he came back)

Makes me wonder if that is why they walked around Jerusalem for a while.

I don't know if anyone understands the need for a body in heaven,but the ones resurrected do eat as Jesus exhibited after his resurrection into a glorified body.

Thank you for remembering that as well and thank you for sharing this further insight

 

[Ahwatukee]

I don't have an answer. I know HE is the first from the dead so I know no man can precede H so those who died before HIM could not enter in until HE opened the way through HIS BODY

but the truth that many saw these bodies rise I am not sure that this necessarily means that they were raised bodily into heaven but only that a visible sign was given to all men to stop and understand what SPIRITUALLY and hidden (if GOD does not make it known by a visible sign) what happened

All I know and understand is that HE led those souls who were in captivity captive in HIS "TRAIN"

Hell miknik5,

Jesus was the first fruits of those who resurrect in an immortal and glorified body. Those others were resurrected, but in their mortal bodies and with the same sinful nature, only to die again, the same as with Lazarus and the daughter of Jairus. There will be a day when they will resurrect again, but in their immortal and glorified bodies.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

 

[PlainWord]

AHWA,

The last seven years:
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Does this passage tell you that the "he" is the Antichrist?

What translation are you using? Wow, this entire passage has been re-written to bolster the Pre-trib claim. Dan 9:27 has nothing to do with the Great Tribulation. Be careful when reading alternative translations that completely alter the meaning of God's Word!!! My goodness, your translation is a disgrace.

Look at the KJV. It is very different. This is what the original translation says before there was a pre-trib theory.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Do you see any mention of the antichrist? Do you see the word "temple" being used? Do you see anything being "set up?" The "Abomination of Desolation" isn't even used in Dan 9:27.

FOR THE OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS means BECAUSE OF THEIR MANY SINS
HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE means CHRIST WILL MAKE THEIR TEMPLE DESERTED
EVEN UNTIL means THE TEMPLE WILL REMAIN DESERTED UNTIL
THE CONSUMMATION means WRATH OF GOD
SHALL BE POURED OUT means POURED OUT AS A CONSUMING FIRE
UPON THE DESOLATE means UPON the MUSLIMS

If I were translating Dan 9:26-27 so that the proper meaning can be understood, I would do it like this:

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after 62 weeks Messiah shall be nailed to the Cross, but not because of anything He did wrong: and the people of Titus the Roman prince shall come and destroy the city and the temple; and the end of the city and temple shall be with a flood of Roman soilders, and unto the end of the war the Jewish people shall leave the city.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And Jesus shall confirm a new covenant with the world for one week: and in the middle of the week Jesus shall cause the need for sacrificing and offerings to end, and because of the many abominable sins of the people, Jesus shall cause the Temple to become deserted, even until the consuming fire of God's Wrath, which has already been determined, shall be poured upon those who are not to be heirs of the Kingdom of God.

If you read it like this, you will have better understanding. In my next post, I will show you where in Daniel Jesus was referencing in Mat 24 when He spoke of the Abomination of Desolation so that you can see what is really going to happen.

 

[miknik5]

Hell miknik5,

Jesus was the first fruits of those who resurrect in an immortal and glorified body. Those others were resurrected, but in their mortal bodies and with the same sinful nature, only to die again. There will be a day when they resurrect again, but in their immortal and glorified bodies.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

They died already. However they died before hearing the GOSPEL preached. they heard it preached and hell was emptied. And HE took back the keys to hades and death.

That will not happen agsin

HE will not descend again to preach to the dead Which is why THE GOSPEL is for the living and preached to the living until the year of HIS FAVOR is complete


All will physically die once but not all will suffer the second death

 

[miknik5]

And actually, the visible sign of CHRIST's RESURRECTION along with these "OT saints" attests to that TRUTH: that HE took back the keys to both hades and death

 

[popeye]

Hell miknik5,

Jesus was the first fruits of those who resurrect in an immortal and glorified body. Those others were resurrected, but in their mortal bodies and with the same sinful nature, only to die again, the same as with Lazarus and the daughter of Jairus. There will be a day when they will resurrect again, but in their immortal and glorified bodies.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Well,under that template,the dead in christ are resurrected in the rapture,but the noah,abraham,david,and daniel would have to wait till the second resurrection at the GWTJ.

When John went to heaven there were already elders there.

And that the innumerable number of martyrs eat,implying glorified bodies.

Not saying you CAN'T BE RIGHT.
Just not probable.

 

[popeye]

[video=youtube;vs0NbczLC-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs0NbczLC-s[/video]

 

[popeye]

@0:09 "THE DAY OF THE GREAT SHOUT"

pretrib rapture

 

[popeye]

GET READY

THE BRIDE IS GOING WITH THE GROOM

THE MARRIAGE

THE WEDDING

THE SUPPER.


........AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT

NOBODY!!!!

 

[miknik5]

[video=youtube;vs0NbczLC-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs0NbczLC-s[/video]

Oh my goodness! Is that what the feast of trumpets is about!

B E A U T I F U L !!!!!

 

[bornofgod]

They died already. However they died before hearing the GOSPEL preached. they heard it preached and hell was emptied. And HE took back the keys to hades and death.

That will not happen agsin

HE will not descend again to preach to the dead Which is why THE GOSPEL is for the living and preached to the living until the year of HIS FAVOR is complete


All will physically die once but not all will suffer the second death

The first death is a spiritual death. Not one human being who woke up in the first Earth understood what the voice of God was. Without hearing the voice of God and obeying all his commandments like all the former prophets and saints did and forced to obey, you're spiritually dead until after your second death which is the death of your flesh. Those who heard the voice of God ( the gospel ) preached by God's servants and believed everything they heard learn about life after the death of the flesh. Those who heard all about Eternal Life lose their flesh but know that isn't the end of them. They learn that in the New Heaven and Earth, they will get new flesh;

Ezekiel 371: The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones.
2: And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry.
3: And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest."
4: Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5: Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the LORD."

 

[Ahwatukee]

Does this passage tell you that the "he" is the Antichrist?

You have to have some knowledge of the word of God in order to understand that the ruler "He" in verse 26 is the antichrist. In 2 Thes.2:3, Paul referred to him as "the man of lawlessness." In the epistles of John, he referred to him as "the antichrist." And in Revelation, he is referred to as "the beast."

He is the litter horn that speaks boastful words recorded in Dan.7:8, who is synonymous with the beast of Revelation 13:5 who is said to speak boastful words against God and his dwelling place and those in heaven. By cross-referencing and comparing scripture is how we are able to come to these conclusions, which obviously are not able to do.

You say that my translation is a disgrace, well I just proved the truth regarding the antichrist as being the "He" in Dan.9:27 and that the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period as being the great tribulation period and that because Jesus identified it as being so.

Dan 9:27 has nothing to do with the Great Tribulation

Dan.9:27 has everything to do with the great tribulation. Please pay attention to the following, not that it will matter to you.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

According to Dan.9:27, it is in the middle of the seven years that the abomination is set up in the holy place. In Matt.24:15-21, Jesus quoted Dan.9:27 and referred to the time from the setting up of the abomination and that last 3 1/2 years, as that time of great tribulation.

[quoteFOR THE OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS means BECAUSE OF THEIR MANY SINS
HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE[/quote]

Jesus clarified KJV of Dan.9:27, as not the "overspreading of abominations" but the setting of the abomination in the holy place, which will be the signal for Israel to flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where he will care for her for 1,260 (3 1/2 years). At the end of that 3 1/2 years is when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

[SUP] [/SUP]And Jesus shall confirm a new covenant with the world for one week: and in the middle of the week Jesus shall cause the need for sacrificing and offerings to end, and because of the many abominable sins of the people, Jesus shall cause the Temple to become deserted, even until the consuming fire of God's Wrath, which has already been determined, shall be poured upon those who are not to be heirs of the Kingdom of God.

The above is completely and utterly, false! Jesus is not the one who made or will make a covenant for one week, as it is the man of lawlessness, the antichrist who will do that, which is coming soon.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They died already. However they died before hearing the GOSPEL preached. they heard it preached and hell was emptied. And HE took back the keys to hades and death.

That will not happen agsin

HE will not descend again to preach to the dead Which is why THE GOSPEL is for the living and preached to the living until the year of HIS FAVOR is complete


All will physically die once but not all will suffer the second death

As I said, when those people resurrected out of the tombs after Christ's resurrection, those people, like Lazarus and Jairus' daughter, died again. They were not resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies. However, when the resurrection takes place, then they will be raised again, but in their immortal and glorified bodies. All those people that Jesus took with him to heaven were in their spiritual state, who were in that same area where Abraham and Lazarus were across from Sheol/Hades.

 

[bornofgod]

The antichrist and false prophet are names that refer to the flesh of man that perishes while the spirit remains in the word of God.

Isaiah 40
6: A voice says, "Cry!" And I said, "What shall I cry?" All flesh is grass, and all its beauty is like the flower of the field.
7: The grass withers, the flower fades, when the breath of the LORD blows upon it; surely the people is grass.
8: The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever.

 

[PlainWord]

Here's what Jesus said in Mat 24:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We see the A of D set up with the warning for those in Israel to immediately flee. Then we see that Israel comes under a massive attack. Here's the passage in Daniel 11 that Christ was really discussing.

THIS IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION ALONG WITH THE GREAT TRIBULATION

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

So, we see that it isn't the temple (or sanctuary) that is defiled, it's the fortress of the temple which is the wall that used to go around the temple (sanctuary). In today's terms, it would be the Wailing Wall which is defiled. Once defiled, Orthodox Jews will stop praying there. The word, "sacrifices" does not appear in the original text, that's why it is in italics.

This passage is the Great Tribulation:

yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering.

If we turn to Daniel 12 we see the Great Tribulation lasts just 45 days (less whatever those days are shortened by)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Stick to the obvious and not run after the obscure and false interpretations of foolish men.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If we turn to Daniel 12 we see the Great Tribulation lasts just 45 days (less whatever those days are shortened by)

That alone is amazing, since the 5th trumpet judgment alone is 5 months in length. And yes, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment make up the wrath of God and will be carried out during that entire seven years.

 

[PlainWord]

You have to have some knowledge of the word of God in order to understand that the ruler "He" in verse 26 is the antichrist. In 2 Thes.2:3, Paul referred to him as "the man of lawlessness." In the epistles of John, he referred to him as "the antichrist." And in Revelation, he is referred to as "the beast."

I do have knowledge of the Word of God, that is why I am trying to correct you. The Prince of the People to Come" was Titus!! Titus destroyed the city. The "he" in Dan 9:27 is Christ. Christ was cut off for our transgressions. In the middle of Christ's 7 year ministry, He Christ went to the Cross ending the 70 weeks at the 69.5 week mark.

Why do you constantly look past the obvious in favor of the less obvious. My version doesn't require a 2,000 year gap WHICH IS NOT TAUGHT. My version is clean and simple.

He is the litter horn that speaks boastful words recorded in Dan.7:8, who is synonymous with the beast of Revelation 13:5 who is said to speak boastful words against God and his dwelling place and those in heaven. By cross-referencing and comparing scripture is how we are able to come to these conclusions, which obviously are not able to do

No, the Little Horn from Dan 7 does not go with Titus from Dan 9. He does, however, go with the beast of Rev 13. You are taking scripture and throwing them into a blender.

You say that my translation is a disgrace, well I just proved the truth regarding the antichrist as being the "He" in Dan.9:27 and that the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period as being the great tribulation period and that because Jesus identified it as being so.

Not offending you, just your translation. What is it? Whatever it is, stay away from it. Go with KJV or NKJV. In Dan 9:27, you will not find, "the Abomination of Desolation" and you will not find the "Antichrist." Go instead to Dan 11 as it holds all the answers along with Dan 12 which happens immediately after.

Jesus clarified KJV of Dan.9:27, as not the "overspreading of abominations" but the setting of the abomination in the holy place, which will be the signal for Israel to flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where he will care for her for 1,260 (3 1/2 years). At the end of that 3 1/2 years is when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

No He did not. None of the Bible needs correcting. Get out of Dan 9 and into Dan 11. Why do you ignore the future and dwell on past fulfilled prophesy>?

 

[PlainWord]

That alone is amazing, since the 5th trumpet judgment alone is 5 months in length. And yes, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment make up the wrath of God and will be carried out during that entire seven years. [/SIZE]

How many times have I told you now that you won't find the Great Tribulation there? The 5th seal is dealing with the mental torture Satan uses on his followers of Islam to entice them to come to Armageddon to flight Jesus at the 6th seal. It is at the Battle of Armageddon where 1/3 of mankind is killed. They will mostly be Muslims with some Russians too.