THE CRY FOR THE POWER

[Grace777x70]

Really rabbit trail? Seems like that is where you are attempting to guide this conversation.

The gift of healing has not ended but God never made men the healer.

Souls are save through hearing the word of God not by what they see or believe they see in the way of miracles or signs. The faith that is needed to be saved comes from hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. There is no room in there for anything else.

You are seeking confirmations that are now present in the word of God. What brought you to saving grace?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Ok..I will try once more..

The gospel was it or was it not preached at Lystra and the man was healed from hearing the good news about Jesus?


What are the answers to the below questions about the text.

So, the scriptures were not telling us the truth?..which is it...that the man in Lystra was not really healed?....perhaps Paul never even went to Lystra in the first place?....

...the gospel was not really preached?..that Paul couldn't see the man's faith when he heard the gospel? ...that Jesus still doesn't heal today so let's not take what the scriptures actually say as being true?

I know that they are hard and revealing questions so you don't have to answer them. It's ok.....I really do understand.

 

[Ariel82]

*Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: *“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. *But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. *And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. *But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”*At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. *Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. *All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. *Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. *Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. *For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” - Matthew 11:20-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew11:20-30&version=NIV

 

[Ariel82]

Miracles don't always lead to repentance and salvation.

I will pray for people to be spiritually healed even if they never get physically healed in this life.

Eventually we will get all new bodies upon resurrection.

I have seen the power of prayer and have seen people healed, but it's more important to me to see people trust in God and follow Him than for me to have power. Because if one person is seen as having this power people worship them instead of God.

Look at Paul and Barnabus when they refused to be worshipped as Zeus and Mercury, they were rejected and beaten.

Being given that spiritual gift comes with a lot of responsibility and humility, and truthfully I don't know if I would want it.

Personally I would rather pray and trust God to deal with it.

Sometimes though God tells us to pray out loud so that the other person knows that it is God who is helping them and not just some random occurrence.

Still a hard concept for me to grasp, the praying out loud over people, but Jesus spoke out loud to raise Lazarus and said He knew God did not need the words but the hearers did.

 

[popeye]

When Jesus was crucified there were two malefactors crucified with Him. One attempted to manipulate Jesus by tempting Him to exercise His power and get them down off the crosses so they could continue to live. The other sought not to have Christ misuse the power that was His but sought His mercy.

You are proof texting to support your position. Mat 10:1 Jesus gave the disciples power but He sent them to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus specifically told them not to go to the Gentiles or to any city of the Samaritans.

Mat 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Seems you are not really interested in being honest to the text.

If you really had what you boast about you would have sufficient wisdom not to boast. God speaks in the still small voice.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

once again your claim that miracles ceased has no biblical merit,and editing those verses from the bible proves you are adhering to a different gospel.

Proof texting would be never admitting the miracles were in the bible huh?

its like you think the bogey man was with Jesus doing the miracles.

You are so far from the word,I would bet I could ask you if Jesus,and the apostles ever did miracles ,and you could not give me a straight answer.

 

[popeye]

Really rabbit trail? Seems like that is where you are attempting to guide this conversation.

The gift of healing has not ended but God never made men the healer.

Souls are save through hearing the word of God not by what they see or believe they see in the way of miracles or signs. The faith that is needed to be saved comes from hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. There is no room in there for anything else.

You are seeking confirmations that are now present in the word of God. What brought you to saving grace?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Lets see if you can honestly answer a simple question.

1) did Jesus and the apostles do miracles?

2) when Jesus confirmed his authenticity to John the Baptist,what was the basis of his authentification?

I will even post what Jesus said;
Luke 7:22
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell Johnwhat things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

These (below) are shown as being for signs and wonders in Israel

Isaiah 8:18 (( Behold )) I and the children whom the LORD hath (( given )) me
are for signs and for wonders (( in )) Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth (( in )) mount Zion.

These being given unto Christ

John 6:65 And he said, (( Therefore )) said I unto you,
that no man (( can come )) unto me,
except it were (( given )) unto him of my Father.

Predestined unto "the adoption of" children "by Christ" unto the Father

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us
(( unto )) the adoption of children by Jesus Christ (( to )) himself,
according to the good pleasure of his will,

And that we believe on him through their word (even the words given them)

John 17:9 I pray for (( them )) I pray not for the world,
but for them which thou hast (( given )) me; for they are thine.

All that the Father (( giveth )) me shall come to me

John 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine;
and I am glorified (( in )) them.

The adoption of children by Christ (unto himself) God revealing his Son (( in )) Paul also (Gal 1:16)

"I and the children" (Isaiah 8:18)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, (2 Cr 9:8,1 Ti 5:10. Heb 13:21)
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; (John 10:32, Acts 2:22)
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And as Christ was as a approved of God among them (in Israel) by miracles and wonders and signs (See Acts 2:22)
Christ and the children the LORD hath given him are shown as being for signs and wonders (in Israel)

Isaiah 8:18 (( Behold )) I and the children whom the LORD hath (( given )) me
are for signs and for wonders (( in )) Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth (( in )) mount Zion.

And as the Father sent Christ (approved of God even by the same Acts 2:22) Christ also sends the same

John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

And the Lord is shown working with them (these shown as the children in Isaiah 8:18) confirming the word through them with signs following

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, (Gal 1:16 & 2:8) the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. (Heb 2:4)

The same having been endued with power from on high (Luke 24:49)

As Peter asks the men of Israel,

Acts 3:12... Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? (Luke 24:49, Heb 2:4)

As Christ was for the same (Acts 2:22) they themselves were for signs and wonders in Israel (more specifically) or rather, as is noted in Isaiah 8:18 accordingly

Jesus said them,

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. (Luke 7:22 also)

But who also said,

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto my Father.

The children of Isaiah 8:18 and the signs spoken of there seem to be in accord with Christ in the same

Seeing these went forth...

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, (Gal 1:16 & 2:8) the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.


And as with these (who walked with him as one man in the flesh) the same with Paul an apostle not of men Gal 1:1 where he likewise says to them, truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among them in the same 2 Cr 12:12

Beginning here also, they are speaking to Israel

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know

Then read between as through the scriptures (even as by David) seeing before these things that come to pass in their day (and the mircacles, wonders and signs God did by Christ) speaking to Israel (unto who both Christ and the children God hath given him) were for signs unto, he says,

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The same picks up in Paul (where a pattern of God's longsuffering is found)

Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. (Mark 16:20 & 2 Cr 12:12)

He speaks of these as being signs of an apostle which were wrought

2 Cr12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Which would have followed the same course shown in the Lord (as Jesus Christ is also referred to as an apostle, or perhaps more rightly, "THE" Apostle of our profession as is shown in Heb 3:1) and so he speaks of signs of an Apostle

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 2:22)

As with Christ, God anointing Christ in such a way, even in Paul (as with Peter) being anointed with the Holy Ghost

2 Cr 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

And it was the Spirit which worketh the mircacles among them

Whereas again, Jesus had said,

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

And yet again he said

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

And now its Christ in them also (Gal 1:16 & G2:8)

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Even as Christ was set for a sign to be spoken against also

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again ofmany in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

He was going to be spoken against in those who preached Him (Acts 13:35)

Acts 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. (1 Peter 4:14)

Which also might make sense as to why Jesus said, whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him seeing that is a sign he was set for also

Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against

Paul asks "do all work miracles" in such a way as if not all would work them (even if the same were worked by the Spirit). For instance, John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from the womb and John (the Elijah for to come) who might have worked no miracle (John 10:41) still went in the Spirit and power of Elijah (and that being the Holy Ghost) but was shown as going forth in the same (power) to turn the hearts as is testified of here, saying of him Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord (shown in Mal 4:5-6) and those from here who walked on with Christ were endued with power after his rejection (death and resurrection)

 

[popeye]

*Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: *“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. *But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. *And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. *But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”*At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. *Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. *All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. *Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. *Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. *For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” - Matthew 11:20-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew11:20-30&version=NIV

I don't get it.

You are proving what?

Miracles are bad?

Never pray,because God has no power?

Miracles are as bad as sodom and gomorrah?

 

[popeye]

These (below) are shown as being for signs and wonders in Israel

Isaiah 8:18 (( Behold )) I and the children whom the LORD hath (( given )) me
are for signs and for wonders (( in )) Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth (( in )) mount Zion.

These being given unto Christ

John 6:65 And he said, (( Therefore )) said I unto you,
that no man (( can come )) unto me,
except it were (( given )) unto him of my Father.

Predestined unto "the adoption of" children "by Christ" unto the Father

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us
(( unto )) the adoption of children by Jesus Christ (( to )) himself,
according to the good pleasure of his will,

And that we believe on him through their word (even the words given them)

John 17:9 I pray for (( them )) I pray not for the world,
but for them which thou hast (( given )) me; for they are thine.

All that the Father (( giveth )) me shall come to me

John 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine;
and I am glorified (( in )) them.

The adoption of children by Christ (unto himself) God revealing his Son (( in )) Paul also (Gal 1:16)

"I and the children" (Isaiah 8:18)

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, (2 Cr 9:8,1 Ti 5:10. Heb 13:21)
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; (John 10:32, Acts 2:22)
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And as Christ was as a approved of God among them (in Israel) by miracles and wonders and signs (See Acts 2:22)
Christ and the children the LORD hath given him are shown as being for signs and wonders (in Israel)

Isaiah 8:18 (( Behold )) I and the children whom the LORD hath (( given )) me
are for signs and for wonders (( in )) Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth (( in )) mount Zion.

And as the Father sent Christ (approved of God even by the same Acts 2:22) Christ also sends the same

John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

And the Lord is shown working with them (these shown as the children in Isaiah 8:18) confirming the word through them with signs following

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, (Gal 1:16 & 2:8) the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. (Heb 2:4)

The same having been endued with power from on high (Luke 24:49)

As Peter asks the men of Israel,

Acts 3:12... Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? (Luke 24:49, Heb 2:4)

As Christ was for the same (Acts 2:22) they themselves were for signs and wonders in Israel (more specifically) or rather, as is noted in Isaiah 8:18 accordingly

Jesus said them,

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. (Luke 7:22 also)

But who also said,

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto my Father.

The children of Isaiah 8:18 and the signs spoken of there seem to be in accord with Christ in the same

Seeing these went forth...

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, (Gal 1:16 & 2:8) the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.


And as with these (who walked with him as one man in the flesh) the same with Paul an apostle not of men Gal 1:1 where he likewise says to them, truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among them in the same 2 Cr 12:12

Beginning here also, they are speaking to Israel

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know

Then read between as through the scriptures (even as by David) seeing before these things that come to pass in their day (and the mircacles, wonders and signs God did by Christ) speaking to Israel (unto who both Christ and the children God hath given him) were for signs unto, he says,

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The same picks up in Paul (where a pattern of God's longsuffering is found)

Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. (Mark 16:20 & 2 Cr 12:12)

He speaks of these as being signs of an apostle which were wrought

2 Cr12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Which would have followed the same course shown in the Lord (as Jesus Christ is also referred to as an apostle, or perhaps more rightly, "THE" Apostle of our profession as is shown in Heb 3:1) and so he speaks of signs of an Apostle

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 2:22)

As with Christ, God anointing Christ in such a way, even in Paul (as with Peter) being anointed with the Holy Ghost

2 Cr 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

And it was the Spirit which worketh the mircacles among them

Whereas again, Jesus had said,

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

And yet again he said

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

And now its Christ in them also (Gal 1:16 & G2:8)

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Even as Christ was set for a sign to be spoken against also

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again ofmany in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

He was going to be spoken against in those who preached Him (Acts 13:35)

Acts 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. (1 Peter 4:14)

Which also might make sense as to why Jesus said, whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him seeing that is a sign he was set for also

Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against

Paul asks "do all work miracles" in such a way as if not all would work them (even if the same were worked by the Spirit). For instance, John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from the womb and John (the Elijah for to come) who might have worked no miracle (John 10:41) still went in the Spirit and power of Elijah (and that being the Holy Ghost) but was shown as going forth in the same (power) to turn the hearts as is testified of here, saying of him Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord (shown in Mal 4:5-6) and those from here who walked on with Christ were endued with power after his rejection (death and resurrection)

Amen!!!

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto my Father.

Every time I see this I am reminded of elijah and elisha

 

[popeye]

I think you have that backwards. You are the theologian who formulates his doctrine from proof texts taken out of context.

What is it that you got? You need to take the whole counsel of Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Uh no I can see that the apostles and Jesus worked miracles.

You,for some bizarre reason are not allowed to go to those verses.

 

[royalscot]

There is a cry within the believer. We see elijah and the power,and the miracles.The decisiveness.
We see elisha,who would not leave the side of elijah,for fear of the mantle eluding him.

We see Elisha order his servant "take my rod,and lay it next to the child,and the child will recover. NOTHING HAPPENED. So,that was it right? no miracle.

No sir. He went to the child,lay on top of the body,and the child came back to life.

Elisha did twice what Elijah did.

Now ff to Jesus walking amongst us. WHO DID HE INVOKE? Elijah. The fore runner.

Now this same Jesus,our forerunner,gave us the promise of Elijah. "Greater works than theses will you do"

Amazing. God invokes man.
Why?

It is heaven's protocol.

Jesus handed us the power. We pray,sometimes we get results,but mostly no. Nothing.

So,where do we go from here?

We go higher. We admit the problem is us. We look to heaven for answers.

But we let the hunger intensify. In fact we stoke those flames. Just a little spark can start a massive fire.

I want more power. I want want the power of heaven like elisha had. I say with Paul,I will be behind on no gift.

Why are we against this????

the power of the spirit, is not directed by man. ie elijha was sent. by god.

what people fail, to see. in modern day. is the split between jewish law system, to a belief system and cant understand it, ie old covenant to new covenant.

the old covenant told about a saviour, the jewish present in the day of jesus christ, never believed he was sent by god. so this being so,it is now an antichrist system of belief. by rejecting jesus, they can not enter, to into a christian, belief system.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him John 3: You Must Be Born Againfor example mostly all the apostle were .


for example most of the apostle were

martyr
ˈmɑːtə/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: martyrs[/COLOR]

• 1.
  a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the first Christian martyr"[/COLOR]
  
  
  
  • 
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
    [TD]
    
    
    
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
    
  • 
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
    
    
  
  
  

verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important]3rd person present: martyrs[/COLOR]

• 1.
  kill (someone) because of their beliefs.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"she was martyred for her faith"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]put to death, kill, make a martyr of, martyrize; More[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

the jewish system, never accounted ,for 70 ad,
they already rejected a saviour.


so modern day, christians need to understand this change, before they can enter, into the truth. of spiritual gifts etc

for example
But Peter said, "I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!Acts 3: The Lame Beggar Healed

Eutychus Raised from the Dead
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered.9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.Acts 20


Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace


when you trust a saviour fully, then you will see the spiritual realm,

?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faithGalatians 3


un till you, understand this
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?Galatians 3

you need to grow you faith and understanding , by standing in the truth of scripture. etc

 

[popeye]

Miracles don't always lead to repentance and salvation.

I will pray for people to be spiritually healed even if they never get physically healed in this life.

Eventually we will get all new bodies upon resurrection.

I have seen the power of prayer and have seen people healed, but it's more important to me to see people trust in God and follow Him than for me to have power. Because if one person is seen as having this power people worship them instead of God.

Look at Paul and Barnabus when they refused to be worshipped as Zeus and Mercury, they were rejected and beaten.

Being given that spiritual gift comes with a lot of responsibility and humility, and truthfully I don't know if I would want it.

Personally I would rather pray and trust God to deal with it.

Sometimes though God tells us to pray out loud so that the other person knows that it is God who is helping them and not just some random occurrence.

Still a hard concept for me to grasp, the praying out loud over people, but Jesus spoke out loud to raise Lazarus and said He knew God did not need the words but the hearers did.

The book of acts doesnt even have a page where there is no miracle.

Miracles are part of the Gospel

Jesus basically said "you know God is here because of the miracles."

Luke 7:22
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell Johnwhat things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

 

[popeye]

What kind of Jesus are we talking about here?

A powerless one?

And all that about us doing greater works in a joke?

A cruel joke?

I believe in the same gospel that the apostles did. Gobs of miracles. That is God.

 

[popeye]

the power of the spirit, is not directed by man. ie elijha was sent. by god.

what people fail, to see. in modern day. is the split between jewish law system, to a belief system and cant understand it, ie old covenant to new covenant.

the old covenant told about a saviour, the jewish present in the day of jesus christ, never believed he was sent by god. so this being so,it is now an antichrist system of belief. by rejecting jesus, they can not enter, to into a christian, belief system.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him John 3: You Must Be Born Againfor example mostly all the apostle were .


for example most of the apostle were

martyr
ˈmɑːtə/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: martyrs[/COLOR]

• 1.
  a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the first Christian martyr"[/COLOR]
  
  • 
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
    [TD]
    
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
  • 
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
  
  
  

verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important]3rd person present: martyrs[/COLOR]

• 1.
  kill (someone) because of their beliefs.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"she was martyred for her faith"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]put to death, kill, make a martyr of, martyrize; More[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

the jewish system, never accounted ,for 70 ad,
they already rejected a saviour.


so modern day, christians need to understand this change, before they can enter, into the truth. of spiritual gifts etc

for example
But Peter said, "I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!Acts 3: The Lame Beggar Healed

Eutychus Raised from the Dead
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered.9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.Acts 20


Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace


when you trust a saviour fully, then you will see the spiritual realm,

?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faithGalatians 3


un till you, understand this
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?Galatians 3

you need to grow you faith and understanding , by standing in the truth of scripture. etc

Jesus covered this 2000 years ago when they claimed HE DID miracles by another power. Satan.

Show us where I said or implied that miracles have to be apart from God?

I find that ridiculous.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I don't get it.

You are proving what?

Miracles are bad?

Never pray,because God has no power?

Miracles are as bad as sodom and gomorrah?

Her next post got across her point (at least what I took her point to be) that miracles do not always end with someone being saved. So she prays more for their spiritual birth than she does for a healing miracle. Because THAT is ALWAYS salvation!

Maybe she's a midwife...a prissy, spiritual midwife...

 

[popeye]

Her next post got across her point (at least what I took her point to be) that miracles do not always end with someone being saved. So she prays more for their spiritual birth than she does for a healing miracle. Because THAT is ALWAYS salvation!

Maybe she's a midwife...a prissy, spiritual midwife...

Ok,maybe I am jumping the gun,but I can tell you,what is going on here is a loathing of Gods power.

They have been programmed to flee the power and miracle verses. That is why there is a negative reaction.

Their reaction is knee jerk,and AUTOMATIC.

Very negative and suspicious view of Gods power.

The apostles LIVED AND OPERATED in the miraculous.

That is good news.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Amen!!!



Every time I see this I am reminded of elijah and elisha

Yes, there seems to be a shadow of things in the two Elisha come up after Elijah, just as Jesus did John, the double portion (mantlewise) would have fallen to Christ (before whom John went) and did baptize (heaven opened) and the same coming upon Christ as it did. Seeing John had the Holy Ghost from the womb (who would go before the Lord) by the same Spirit and power as did Elijah (in the same). Whereas Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost who received also (of heaven) but as by John's ministry a sort of double portion in that sense also. Theres a few things I have been looking at between Elijah and Elisha. Jesus speaking to John spoke of them (together) as it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness (Mat 3:15). The two of them coming are spoken of, and since the law has a shadow of the good things to come but not the very image of things, John could be the Elijah for to come (when John is really just John as he said and could deny he was Elijah the person) but he can still be as Jesus said being the Elijah "for to come" according to the shadow (but not the very image of things) also, so they can all be true.

 

[oldethennew]

popeye,

many of us are aware that our Heavenly Father is our Chaplain, Mentor, Best Friend, and we recommend
Him highly to all that will hear and obey...

many of us also know that the tree of iniquity grows from much fertilizer and dung, and that there are
many wolfs wearing a Lamb's disguise...also, that cowboys are always on the lookout to rip-off widow's
purses...

yes my friend, more and more traces of deviltry are sketched on the TV's and modern literature...

we appreciate you being a 'sounding-brass' for your love of your fellow man...and many of us know
that our modern society will soon come crashing down...for the tiger is so very hungry...

let your Love be your mantle to the world and may you accept your sorrow with humility and grace...

 

[popeye]

popeye,

many of us are aware that our Heavenly Father is our Chaplain, Mentor, Best Friend, and we recommend
Him highly to all that will hear and obey...

many of us also know that the tree of iniquity grows from much fertilizer and dung, and that there are
many wolfs wearing a Lamb's disguise...also, that cowboys are always on the lookout to rip-off widow's
purses...

yes my friend, more and more traces of deviltry are sketched on the TV's and modern literature...

we appreciate you being a 'sounding-brass' for your love of your fellow man...and many of us know
that our modern society will soon come crashing down...for the tiger is so very hungry...

let your Love be your mantle to the world and may you accept your sorrow with humility and grace...

Oh no you don't. Your not putting that mess on me.

I have a valid doctrine. NOBODY(as far as detractors) has addresses the Validity of miracles.

Your attempt to label is pretty lame,considering how I handled crossnotes ugly mess he spewed on me.

Show me with a bible how miracles have ceased,and why they erroneously dominated the lives of the apostles.

My point/s are valid,and I can defend them
easily. Cool,calm collected,right in the face of ugliness as crossnote chose to exhibit.

Interesting that you are oblivious to folks non biblical stand.

You can not possibly accuse me VALIDLY.

Your subtle name calling ,though,I am sure, is your stellar example of love.

 

[popeye]

Yes, there seems to be a shadow of things in the two Elisha come up after Elijah, just as Jesus did John, the double portion (mantlewise) would have fallen to Christ (before whom John went) and did baptize (heaven opened) and the same coming upon Christ as it did. Seeing John had the Holy Ghost from the womb (who would go before the Lord) by the same Spirit and power as did Elijah (in the same). Whereas Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost who received also (of heaven) but as by John's ministry a sort of double portion in that sense also. Theres a few things I have been looking at between Elijah and Elisha. Jesus speaking to John spoke of them (together) as it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness (Mat 3:15). The two of them coming are spoken of, and since the law has a shadow of the good things to come but not the very image of things, John could be the Elijah for to come (when John is really just John as he said and could deny he was Elijah the person) but he can still be as Jesus said being the Elijah "for to come" according to the shadow (but not the very image of things) also, so they can all be true.

Yes,it does seem to be that exactly.

That is the cornerstone of my thoughts.

The fore runner. Because Jesus said " if you can receive it". It appears to me he was alluding to what you said.

 

[BeyondET]

Only thing I can contribute is a song excuse me sowwie hehe..

[video=youtube;Umk7qBBV-dM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umk7qBBV-dM[/video]