Muslim Religion

[PlainWord]

Recall that Lindsey used the biblical quote about the city of 7 hills both of which were applied to Rome and to Moscow. This, he felt, made his argument a strong one. I did some reading based on your posts and see that Mecca is said to be built on 7 hills as well. On that basis, maybe there is some validity in this regard to what you are saying.

Lindsey was proven to be wrong. We shall see whether your ideas will be eventuated by history.

Lindsey, like so many others, failed to understand that Revelation was written in "apocalyptic literary style" which was a popular form of writing for centuries when the author was concerned about oppression as John certainly was with Rome. John, who was exiled in Patmos, under Roman control was not only concerned about his safety but the safety of his audience, the 7 churches of Asia Minor, to which he wrote Revelation, should his writings fall into enemy hands. Prophetic books are often written in this style. Nostradamus also wrote in this style using symbols to disguise true meaning as in his case, he was concerned about being labeled a heretic by the Roman Catholic Church and subject to beatings, imprisonment or even death.

Anyway, John used OT symbols which his audience would fully understand but the Romans would not. Symbols such as "BEAST," "MOUNTAIN," "SEA," "HORNS," "GRASS," "TREES," "SHIPS," "WATERS," "FIRE" etc all have other biblical meanings different from their literal meanings. The "Less Informed" shall we say, reading Revelation seeing all these symbols and reading them literally think that various disasters on a global scale such as asteroids hitting the ocean, etc is coming. It makes for interesting Hollywood movies and books. Lindsay and others made a fortune on this nonsense.

Jesus, of course, taught that prior to His coming it would be like in the days of Noah - relative calm - and those who were about to face judgment had no idea what was about to befall them, they were getting married, partying, etc right up until BAM!!! Paul teaches the same thing. Those "in the know" living in the LIGHT, will recognize the signs while those in Darkness won't have a clue.

The Harlot is Islam of this I am 1000% certain. Muslims will attack Israel in what Jesus calls, "the Great Tribulation" which Jeremiah calls "Jacob's Trouble." This triggers God's Wrath as we see in Eze 38, Zec 14, Joel 2, etc. God's wrath is poured out against Gog and those who come up against Israel.

 

[peacenik]

Good morning Peacenik
I'm here to tell you that I doubt the end will be coming from Rome.
I live here where Rome is found, and I doubt they could end anything down there
except our financial well-being. They're very good at that.
As to the end of the world - I think that requires some skill,
something sorely lacking in the city of 7 hills, at least the one here!

Just a thought...

Fran

Hi Fran,


I hope you enjoyed the Giro which is something I look forward to every year.

Re Lindsey, history proved him wrong. Indeed, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of prognosticators who have said the Antichrist is near and will soon take over the world. Each and every one of these self proclaimed prophets has proven to be wrong. We shall all learn soon enough as to whether Mecca's 7 hills is the seat of the power of the Antichrist ...

 

[PlainWord]

I agree with everything about this subject you have posted. You last post, the part about the temple, I am not not in agreement, but I do admit it is a possibility that a third temple will not be built. But I think it is in satans prideful nature to have a third temple built so he can then tell the Jews "now worship me". i know that is not actually a quote, but I can hear him saying something like that. So that being something I can see satan doing, I tend to believe the third temple will be built. Also, that would go a long way toward the world peace the anti-christ will usher in. I can see him selling it as you (or we) Muslims have Mecca, the dome of the rock, give the Jews their temple. They are a small insignificant people who no longer have power and influence in thew world, for world peace, let them build their in puny temple. i can picture satan selling it like that in the future. I guess time will tell.
Thank you for you excellent posts on this subject. I have been saying these things that you said in a much more detailed and educated manner for some years now. If you want to read a good book on the Muslims, pick up Islam and the psychology of the Muslim by Andre Servier. It was written about 100 years ago and is not influenced by modern societies mistaken world view of Islam. I am only about 20 pages in, and it is very. very informative.

Thanks. Glad to have another voice out there speaking truth and being a watchman. Thanks for the book tip. I will try to order a copy soon.

As for the Temple, I can see the possibility of a third one being built but I doubt it would be because of any peace deal. I see no peace deal being made. The Man of Sin comes to kill Jews, not to make peace with them.

If a Jewish temple is to be built on the Temple Mount, it would cause a war and may actually be a catalyst for the war to come. There is no doubt that the Man of Sin, AKA King of the North, AKA Gog, AKA AntiChrist attacks Israel with overwhelming force as the below passages state:

Dan 11: [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

Eze 38: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken...

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

When the Abomination of Desolation (whatever it is) is set up, the attack of Israel will be imminent. That's why Christ warns those in Judea to flee. God has to shortened those days or the Man of Sin will kill everyone. So for His ELECT, those days of Israel's attack are shortened.

 

[PlainWord]

Hi Fran,


I hope you enjoyed the Giro which is something I look forward to every year.

Re Lindsey, history proved him wrong. Indeed, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of prognosticators who have said the Antichrist is near and will soon take over the world. Each and every one of these self proclaimed prophets has proven to be wrong. We shall all learn soon enough as to whether Mecca's 7 hills is the seat of the power of the Antichrist ...

Peacenik,

The seat of the so-called "AntiChrist" (really he's more accurately known as the Little Horn or Man of Sin) isn't going to be Mecca. Mecca actually gets destroyed by the ten horns (kingdomless leaders) which proceed him. We learn of this in Rev 17 and 18:

Rev 17: [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

Rev 18: For in one hour she is made desolate.’ “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Yes, the 10 horns actually destroy their own religious capitol.

 

[PlainWord]

Dan 7: [SUP]20 [/SUP]and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows. [SUP]21 [/SUP]“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, [SUP]22 [/SUP]until the Ancient of Days came...

Rev 17: [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

The above, when put together with Rev 13, 17-18, tell us that the 10 horns (Kings) will come from the North (of Israel). They will destroy Mecca most likely by a nuclear device as the smoke is seen all the way across the Red Sea. As a former nuclear engineer, I can tell you that only a nuclear explosion would have the elevation needed to be visible by passing ships in the Red Sea.

So, Mecca is destroyed in one hour with fire, again by the 10 horns. This happens before the Man of Sin AKA Little Horn appears. We know this because he plucks out three of the horns which obviously doesn't happen yet otherwise there would be 8 horns (10+1-3), not 10 which hate and burn the harlot.

 

[FranC]

Thanks. Glad to have another voice out there speaking truth and being a watchman. Thanks for the book tip. I will try to order a copy soon.

As for the Temple, I can see the possibility of a third one being built but I doubt it would be because of any peace deal. I see no peace deal being made. The Man of Sin comes to kill Jews, not to make peace with them.

If a Jewish temple is to be built on the Temple Mount, it would cause a war and may actually be a catalyst for the war to come. There is no doubt that the Man of Sin, AKA King of the North, AKA Gog, AKA AntiChrist attacks Israel with overwhelming force as the below passages state:

Dan 11: [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

Eze 38: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken...

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

When the Abomination of Desolation (whatever it is) is set up, the attack of Israel will be imminent. That's why Christ warns those in Judea to flee. God has to shortened those days or the Man of Sin will kill everyone. So for His ELECT, those days of Israel's attack are shortened.

PlainWord,
Who do you understand the ELECT to be?

Is it the remnant that God has elected from before the foundation of the world? Which would fall into predestination, but only for this ELECT.

Or do you believe it to be everyone who is saved?

Fran

 

[GAOH]

As a Christian that has never read the Quran, I don't have any doubts that the book has virtue and many similarities to the Holy Bible. I have met and spoke with many Muslim people men, women, and children both from the USA and abroad over the internet and as passers by. I don't hold grudges against Muslims because of what a man my be saying over the internet being adamant that Allah had come before Jesus. I have my strong beliefs as well, but when I meet these wonderful people I enjoy talking with them and there is never an argument that I have had with anyone Muslim or Christian. We are all God's people. Please lets not hate breed and use good Christian and Muslim sanity and work to coexist there is much to be learned and even now-a-days, more than ever, there is a lot of work to be done. What's the matter with that?!

 

[FranC]

As a Christian that has never read the Quran, I don't have any doubts that the book has virtue and many similarities to the Holy Bible. I have met and spoke with many Muslim people men, women, and children both from the USA and abroad over the internet and as passers by. I don't hold grudges against Muslims because of what a man my be saying over the internet being adamant that Allah had come before Jesus. I have my strong beliefs as well, but when I meet these wonderful people I enjoy talking with them and there is never an argument that I have had with anyone Muslim or Christian. We are all God's people. Please lets not hate breed and use good Christian and Muslim sanity and work to coexist there is much to be learned and even now-a-days, more than ever, there is a lot of work to be done. What's the matter with that?!

I think you should read the Quran.
Don't ever take anybody's word for anything. Find out for yourself.

What similarity do you think it has to the bible? The O.T. is the same. They don't accept the N.T.
Jesus is not God to them but a prophet. Jesus can't be a prophet (well, He was, but they think He was ONLY a prophet) or he would have been crazy because he thought He was the Son of God. So, you see, they DON'T LIKE CHRISTIANS - they call us the Cross Wearers. They're trying to convert us or kill us.

Allah DID come before Jesus. They believe Allah is God the Father. Didn't God the Father come before Jesus, the man who was born of Mary? They believe Jesus was just a man.

They are NOT God's people. They are MUHAMMAD'S people. They're following his laws and rules and regulations. Read the Quran. It tells them how to CLEAN themselves.

It's nice that YOU want to co-exist. I want to also. The problem is that THEY don't want to co-exist
and
unfortunately, it takes two to co-exist.

Fran

 

[PlainWord]

PlainWord,
Who do you understand the ELECT to be?

Is it the remnant that God has elected from before the foundation of the world? Which would fall into predestination, but only for this ELECT.

Or do you believe it to be everyone who is saved?

Fran

Fran,

You are really putting me on the spot with that question. My answer is sure to draw the consternation of many. Context is everything, right? Let's look at a few passages before I answer.

Mat 3: [SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Mat 13: [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

Mat 23: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mat 24: [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Mat 24: [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


To me there is an obvious theme being repeated over and over again in relation to Christ's return. I see a "GATHERING" of certain people. I believe the ELECT and the WHEAT are the same people. We see the "wheat" analogy used early in Matthew in Mat 3 and 13. "The Wheat is gathered into Christ's Barn" which is His Kingdom.

In Mat 23 we see that Jesus wanted to gather the Jews as a hen would gather her chicks, but they were unwilling. Later they will be willing.

In Mat 24 we see the ELECT spoken of a few times. We see that the Days of the Tribulation (attack on Israel) are shortened specifically citing the ELECT as the reason. We then learn that the ELECT cannot be deceived into thinking Christ had returned. Then we see when Christ actually returns, the ELECT are gathered. Again, GATHERED appears to be the operative word.

So Christ sends out His angels to gather His ELECT into His BARN or Kingdom. If I am correct in thinking that the ELECT and WHEAT are the same people, then the ELECT are growing up alongside the evil ones who look just like them (the TARES).

Mat 13: [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest...

In Israel, where I have been twice and learned this story, wheat and tares look identical as they grow. Even experienced farmers have a very hard time telling them apart until the harvest when they ripen. I believe this is an analogy of the Sons of Ishmael and the Sons of Isaac. Both had the same father (Abraham) but different mothers, (Hagar the Egyptian and slave woman) and Sarah (Abraham's wife and a free woman). We are told this:

Gen 21:10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.”

Gal 4: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

So if we are talking about who the heirs are to the kingdom it is Isaac, not his brother. Therefore the Wheat are the ELECT Children of Israel while the Tares are the Muslims living around them.

If we look at Rev 14 we see 144,000 from the 12 Tribes standing with Jesus on the Mount of Olives. Are these the ELECT? It certainly makes sense if they are. They are with Christ and they follow Him wherever He goes just as little chicks would follow the Hen.

These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

These were the firstfruits, first to be redeemed from men. If they are the first, then others would follow, seems to me.

 

[FranC]

Fran,

You are really putting me on the spot with that question. My answer is sure to draw the consternation of many. Context is everything, right? Let's look at a few passages before I answer.

Mat 3: [SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Mat 13: [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

Mat 23: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mat 24: [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Mat 24: [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


To me there is an obvious theme being repeated over and over again in relation to Christ's return. I see a "GATHERING" of certain people. I believe the ELECT and the WHEAT are the same people. We see the "wheat" analogy used early in Matthew in Mat 3 and 13. "The Wheat is gathered into Christ's Barn" which is His Kingdom.

In Mat 23 we see that Jesus wanted to gather the Jews as a hen would gather her chicks, but they were unwilling. Later they will be willing.

In Mat 24 we see the ELECT spoken of a few times. We see that the Days of the Tribulation (attack on Israel) are shortened specifically citing the ELECT as the reason. We then learn that the ELECT cannot be deceived into thinking Christ had returned. Then we see when Christ actually returns, the ELECT are gathered. Again, GATHERED appears to be the operative word.

So Christ sends out His angels to gather His ELECT into His BARN or Kingdom. If I am correct in thinking that the ELECT and WHEAT are the same people, then the ELECT are growing up alongside the evil ones who look just like them (the TARES).

Mat 13: [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest...

In Israel, where I have been twice and learned this story, wheat and tares look identical as they grow. Even experienced farmers have a very hard time telling them apart until the harvest when they ripen. I believe this is an analogy of the Sons of Ishmael and the Sons of Isaac. Both had the same father (Abraham) but different mothers, (Hagar the Egyptian and slave woman) and Sarah (Abraham's wife and a free woman). We are told this:

Gen 21:10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.”

Gal 4: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

So if we are talking about who the heirs are to the kingdom it is Isaac, not his brother. Therefore the Wheat are the ELECT Children of Israel while the Tares are the Muslims living around them.

If we look at Rev 14 we see 144,000 from the 12 Tribes standing with Jesus on the Mount of Olives. Are these the ELECT? It certainly makes sense if they are. They are with Christ and they follow Him wherever He goes just as little chicks would follow the Hen.

These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

These were the firstfruits, first to be redeemed from men. If they are the first, then others would follow, seems to me.

This is really great.
Well put together.
It should not cause the consternation of anyone.
The bible does speak as to the elect. you cite Mathew 24.
A pastor who was having a problem with this, came to a conclusion that he felt is correct.
The elect were the ones God predestined before the creation of the world to be a remnant unto the propagation of the faith - to keep it. But that being said, it does not exclude one from becoming saved from the "call of the gospel".

This worked for him and made it possible to reconcile two opposing ideas of predestination - and, it does make sense.

Your view is a little different and, I'd say, more mainstream.

I can live with either one.

Thanks so much!
There's so much to know.

Fran

 

[PlainWord]

This is really great.
Well put together.
It should not cause the consternation of anyone.
The bible does speak as to the elect. you cite Mathew 24.
A pastor who was having a problem with this, came to a conclusion that he felt is correct.
The elect were the ones God predestined before the creation of the world to be a remnant unto the propagation of the faith - to keep it. But that being said, it does not exclude one from becoming saved from the "call of the gospel".

This worked for him and made it possible to reconcile two opposing ideas of predestination - and, it does make sense.

Your view is a little different and, I'd say, more mainstream.

I can live with either one.

Thanks so much!
There's so much to know.

Fran

Thanks Fran,

I believe that ALL BELIEVERS, that is to say, all those who will be saved and go to heaven are chosen for this outcome, but we have to chose in return. I mean this in the sense that God knows who will be saved and who won't. Those who follow Islam, their names are not found in the Book of Life because they are worshiping Satan. Most are likely deceived into thinking that Allah is God but Paul makes clear that they made this choice then God sent them strong delusion to believe this lie.

We know with certainty that the Lamb was predestined to come, die and save us from the very foundation of the earth, Rev 13:8. If you ever get the chance to watch "The Star of Bethlehem" on DVD, it shows that the very alignment of the stars foretold the exact moment Christ was conceived. This of course prompted the wise man to make their journey. Signs were also present for the moment Christ died on the Cross. For this to happen means that God, who created the universe, carefully sequenced certain stars and constellations to be at precise locations to create the Star of Bethlehem effect giving the sign of Christ's birth at the moment He created the universe. So as God is creating the universe He was already planning to send His Son to die for us knowing we would sin and need Christ for salvation. Allah cannot be the Creator of the Universe because Allah would never place signs in the sky for a son he doesn't have.

Thanks for sharing your time and thoughts with me. It has been a pleasure.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

As a Christian that has never read the Quran, I don't have any doubts that the book has virtue and many similarities to the Holy Bible. I have met and spoke with many Muslim people men, women, and children both from the USA and abroad over the internet and as passers by. I don't hold grudges against Muslims because of what a man my be saying over the internet being adamant that Allah had come before Jesus. I have my strong beliefs as well, but when I meet these wonderful people I enjoy talking with them and there is never an argument that I have had with anyone Muslim or Christian. We are all God's people. Please lets not hate breed and use good Christian and Muslim sanity and work to coexist there is much to be learned and even now-a-days, more than ever, there is a lot of work to be done. What's the matter with that?!

What is with these people who come to these threads and go on about not hating muslims and how theyre nice people and give peace a chance and all that? Did they not read the thread before posting? Did they just come to show how kind and understanding they are?

No one here at all is saying hate muslims or any of that at all. I have not read one post that even looks like hatred. There cannot be two truths, the quran and the bible do not say the same thing. The fact that the quran says nice things sometimes does not mean it is the word of God, and that we should accept it.

We do not hate muslims. But we believe in Jesus Christ, and stand against any doctrine that claims He was nothing more than a good teacher, that He did not die for our sins, and that we should bow before rocks for our salvation.

 

[peacenik]

No one here at all is saying hate muslims or any of that at all. I have not read one post that even looks like hatred. There cannot be two truths, the quran and the bible do not say the same thing. The fact that the quran says nice things sometimes does not mean it is the word of God, and that we should accept it.

We do not hate muslims. But we believe in Jesus Christ, and stand against any doctrine that claims He was nothing more than a good teacher, that He did not die for our sins, and that we should bow before rocks for our salvation.

Hmmmm ~~~ In reviewing this thread I have seen Muslims equated with satan, accused of mass genocide, accused of massive enslavement, and equated with terrorists who persecute Christians. That while they call themselves the religion of peace, they are just the opposite. All this while ignoring the fact that Christian professing types have committed far worse mass genocide, enslaved more people, and practiced even worse terrorism. This as all the while they claim to worship the Prince of Peace. By the way, some Christians such as Catholics have been accused of worshiping satan. So while you suggest that there is no appearance of hatred towards Muslims, I respectfully suggest that the words here bespeak of of this negative sentiment.

Matthew 5:44 instructs all good Christians to love their enemies, pray for them, and to overcome evil with good [Romans 12:14 et seq]. I suggest that the focus of this thread's content here be altered from the very evident hostility to one of Christian good. What suggestions do you and others have to get this accomplished?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Hmmmm ~~~ In reviewing this thread I have seen Muslims equated with satan, accused of mass genocide, accused of massive enslavement, and equated with terrorists who persecute Christians. That while they call themselves the religion of peace, they are just the opposite. All this while ignoring the fact that Christian professing types have committed far worse mass genocide, enslaved more people, and practiced even worse terrorism. This as all the while they claim to worship the Prince of Peace. By the way, some Christians such as Catholics have been accused of worshiping satan. So while you suggest that there is no appearance of hatred towards Muslims, I respectfully suggest that the words here bespeak of of this negative sentiment.

Matthew 5:44 instructs all good Christians to love their enemies, pray for them, and to overcome evil with good [Romans 12:14 et seq]. I suggest that the focus of this thread's content here be altered from the very evident hostility to one of Christian good. What suggestions do you and others have to get this accomplished?

Alright, please quote some of the posts here that you have read where those on this thread have claimed that all muslims commit these acts, and that we should hate them for it.


As for post about how there have been muslims who have done this, well they have. Thats a fact. That has nothing to do with whether or not we love them or hate them. It is historically true.

And as for "equating them with satan" youre gonna have to show me posts where this has been done. Though, if you claim to be a Christian, you should very much be aware that this doctrine is from satan. Unless you really believe that God sent an angel to tell us that Christ is not the Son of God, and did not die for our sins, and that we have been deceived by His apostles. But of course if you did believe that, you wouldnt be a Christian.

Claiming that you arent a hateful mean bigoted person because you wont stand against a doctrine that contradicts the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not make you seem more Godly. It just blurs the line of what we should be doing, loving our neighbors while holding to the Gospel.

 

[peacenik]

Disciples of God are children of God. Disciples of Satan are his (Satan's) children as well. Now see post # 2.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I read post number 2. I do not see one bit of hatred in it. I see someone arguing that the Muslims do not worship the same god we do.

This is hateful? You must have a low opinion of Christ, then.

 

[peacenik]

quoting post # 2:


''Muslims are deceived and worship Satan and his demons.''


OK, let God decide whether that is hateful or not.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

So you are making the claim that muslims are worshipping the same god we do? A god that claims he has no son, that he is a father to no one, that no one can bear the burden of another (sins) and that those who believe in him must gather against the unbelievers and the Jews?

And you believe its wrong for a Christian to disagree with this claim, and hateful too?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

And apparently you believe its wrong for those who believe in Christ to stand in His word and argue with those who claim He is not who He claimed to be, too.

 

[PlainWord]

Peacenik,

I think what Brother Yeraza_Bats is trying to say is we Christians do not hate Muslims and in fact we are to pray for them. Our father is long suffering not willing that any should perish. Personally I would love to see as many Muslims as possible turn away from Allah (Satan) and turn to Jesus.

There is no doubt in my mind that Allah is Satan. As Rev 13:4 teaches, "They worship the Dragon." Once the identity of the Beast and Harlot are understood (as I've been showing you), then it is clear that Muslims have been deceived into worshiping Satan when they think they are really worshiping our true God.

Most Muslims are waiting for their Mahdi who they think is sent from Allah. According to teachings of Islam, the Mahdi is supposed to appear together or close together with Jesus (Isa). They are supposed to unite the Muslims and wipe out the Jews and Christians. Muslims believe that the "Inheritance" belongs to the descendants of Ishmael as the oldest son of Abraham and that Isaac (by extension, Israel), the younger son, is attempting to steal their inheritance.

Once their Mahdi arrives, and under his direction, they attack Israel. They kill and rape Israeli women. They take some away to be sex slaves, they torture and maim. It is this killing, raping, looting etc of Israel that is the "unrighteousness" whereby they take pleasure. Paul calls their Mahdi the "Lawless One" here in 2 Thes 2:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you doubt that they Muslim attackers do this, you can read about it in Zec 14:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity...

For those of us who have understanding about what is coming, it is difficult to speak kindly of the Muslims who we know will do these horrible things in the future. Today, as you know, our fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ in Syria and Iraq are being beheaded because they refuse to denounce Christ and convert to Islam.

Islam is a wicked and horrific false religion. It is Satan's #1 false religion as it closely mirrors and copies ours, twisting a little truth here and there as Satan does. This religion has deceived 1/4 of the planet and those who worship we are told, are going to a very warm place. So we all should do what we can to warn them but they make clear they will kill any of us who say anything negative about their false prophet and god. How many Christians want to risk their lives trying to convert those who would kill them for trying?

It is estimated that the Ottoman Empire slaughtered some 50 million Christians during its reign. You can point out some past atrocities of Christians or the Church such as during the Crusades as Obama does, but that was the past and none of us today should feel any sense of responsibility for actions of others some 1,000 years ago.