Is Socialism biblical?

[Jesus4ever]

That's a VERY controversial subject here.

One time I voted on issues. The issue was cutting funding for schools that didn't produce certain test scores. I marked that no, I don't believe set scores should be a mandate for funding. Not because of teacher jobs, and not because I think all teachers are alike... but because the child in the teacher's classroom is a product of six or so years of conditioning out of their control, that greatly affects how that child learns and how they receive information. I think some teachers could certainly be better, but I don't think they should be penalize or even rewarded on how well a child learns, because there are so many other external and internal factors the teacher doesn't control. So that's my take on that, and actually, I'm on the fence about rewards or higher wages for some teachers than others. Yes, it provides them an incentive, but they didn't mold that child - their parents and their previous environment did, so I don't think REWARDS or PENALTIES is objectively fair.

So, the solution is to treat them as equal at the time they earn their salary, right, sister?

For example, teachers may have some other work responsibilities (class director, class director coordinator, department coordinator, etc). All these positions are very intensive, adding much more responsibilities and (in most cases) more working hours. However, you can be or can not be. That will have to due with your working schedule. So, two teachers with the same working time (15 years, for example) have the following situation: Teacher A only gives his classes; Teacher B has to give his classes and have one of those positions. Still, they both earn the same.

I must ask: is that fair?

 

[JesusLives]

Politics aside, you make quite a point (must be one of those cookie highs). It seems we are most fortunate to have a God who didn't mind redistributing wealth!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Just where we would be, without such cosmic socialism?

That was just scratching the surface..... I hear we get crowns and harps and mansions....how much did we work for that? Just some more Blond food for thought. That is totally backed up Biblically.

 

[Jesus4ever]

Yes, She taught History.
She stoping teaching when our only child was born two months after her 45th bityhday.
What a suprise!

That´s great, brother.

I take only private schools are paid, right (as higher education)?

 

[jamie26301]

So, the solution is to treat them as equal at the time they earn they salary, right, sister?

For example, teachers may have some other work responsibilities (class director, class director coordinator, department coordinator, etc). All these positions are very intensive, adding much more responsibilities and (in most cases) more working hours. However, you can be or can not be. That will have to due with your working schedule. So, two teachers with the same working time (15 years, for example) have the following situation: Teacher A only gives his classes; Teacher B has to give his classes and have one of those positions. Still, they both earn the same.

I must ask: is that fair?

No, and I can see your point there. I was referring to paying teachers/funding schools according to the test scores the children yield - I think that's unfair.

But having more than one job description and getting paid for doing more in quantity, that's different.

 

[Jesus4ever]

No, and I can see your point there. I was referring to paying teachers/funding schools according to the test scores the children yield - I think that's unfair.

I can see your point. The question is, every principal knows (or should know) the qualities/capacities of each teacher. When a teacher is really good, he´ll have always the best results a class may have. The problem, many times (and another Left one) is to focus too many on the teacher responsibility of students failure, when in the vast majority of cases, they (students) don´t care about working/studying and respecting their teachers. Plus, in many cases, students walk without punishment of any bad things (some of them really serious) they do.

Here, we spend hours working on documents that are simple rubbish, in order to explain why a student that simply doesn´t want to study and respect any member of school, has a D or a F. (Here is from 1 to 5). Nonsense! But hey, that´s when education is compulsory/free and most people simply do not value it.

Maybe if it weren´t compulsory and they had to pay for it, things would be different...

 

[jaybird88]

So you want to be told what you can eat and what you can wear and what you can drink, that is socialism and communism, also told what church you can go to and how much money you can make and even in America take your money that you worked for and give it to people that refuse to work. Sumpins wrong with dat.

where in the world do you get any of those accusations from my post?

i dont think he got it from you. people get these ideas here in usa. thats what i was taught growing up. i heard it in school, word of mouth, tv, movies, books. always the same message, communism/socialism = no freedom no church, prison if you complain.
this is what i believed until i started reading about the revolutions of Cuba, Guatemala etc and they revolted against capitalism.

 

[JesusIsAll]

That was just scratching the surface..... I hear we get crowns and harps and mansions....how much did we work for that? Just some more Blond food for thought. That is totally backed up Biblically.

You really hold your own, for a blonde. For a brunette, around here. Good thing God doesn't hold it against us, being to the man, or blonde, deadbeats. Somewhere in scripture it surely says we are all blond!

 

[Magenta]

Did somebody say cookie?

 

[Persuaded]

i dont think he got it from you. people get these ideas here in usa. thats what i was taught growing up. i heard it in school, word of mouth, tv, movies, books. always the same message, communism/socialism = no freedom no church, prison if you complain.
this is what i believed until i started reading about the revolutions of Cuba, Guatemala etc and they revolted against capitalism.

That worked out real well in Cuba. I mean with all that freedom they now have.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Did somebody say cookie?

View attachment 147463

Here comes the diabetic coma...

 

[jaybird88]

300 a month for one person? Here it's about 100 a month (you can choose how much you pay, if you need more help you can pay more, if you need the basics you pay less) and for kids til 18 it's free.

Holland is a social democracy?

 

[jaybird88]

I hate socialism because I associate it with able-bodied parasites who refuse to work.

i dont care for deadbeats that are to lazy to work. i also believe in taking care of the elderly, unwanted kids, handicap people. and i know you would help them to.
these are the social programs that are needed. but you are right, socialism can very much take it to far by creating garbage programs that do nothing but waste honest peoples money.

 

[DP]

wow PH good find! a social program in the bible.

What he's talking about per OT times still is not really Socialism. One social program like tithing doth not a Socialist system make. Those other principles I outlined is what makes a system Socialist, which was not the system of the OT and not per NT doctrine either.

 

[jaybird88]

What he's talking about per OT times still is not really Socialism. One social program like tithing doth not a Socialist system make. Those other principles I outlined is what makes a system Socialist, which was not the system of the OT and not per NT doctrine either.

i never said it was socialism, i said "social program"

 

[JesusLives]

You really hold your own, for a blonde. For a brunette, around here. Good thing God doesn't hold it against us, being to the man, or blonde, deadbeats. Somewhere in scripture it surely says we are all blond!

To me the best part is eternal life and God/Jesus/Holy Spirit lives with us forevermore......and we didn't earn or deserve any of it... Better than winning Publishers Clearing House money. I don't know about you but I am all in for Biblical socialism...

 

[posthuman]

Fairness is paying people according to how much they produce.
If I work harder, do not waste time, am more efficient, and produce more in an hour, I should be paid more.
How is that envy to reward those who are more productive?

ha, you would think so.

but guess what? it's time for post to leave the house for work.

i have several jobs. at this one, today, i will produce as much as 600% more revenue per hour than other people working along side me at the same wage. the closest anyone in this outfit comes to my production - working with exactly the same equipment, at the same function - is about 35 to 40% of my output. i am a math guy; i crunch these numbers by habit.

it is not a union job, and i only make about 11% more than the lowest paid worker. some of them are paid more than me though i produce 400% more revenue per hour for the company than those people do.

because it is not a union job, i do not receive wages anywhere near commensurate with my performance. it is a capitalist society with no motivation other than profit, and somewhere up the line, the division manager's job is to coldly pay me as little as possible, so that he can make bonuses for keeping costs down.

just so you know -- being paid what you are worth is a complete pipe dream, and it is not the necessary end of "not being in a socialist system" or being non-unionized. a union would fight for just that sort of fair wage. that is exactly the reason that unions were formed. just because some people are corrupt, does not mean the ideal is wrong -- perhaps it is not seniority that should be rewarded, but performance? "laziness" is not rewarded. people take advantage of the system because of the evil in their hearts, that's all.

if you work at a place that rewards performance -- i do, too, at a different job -- you are blessed, and it is not because of some economic or government system that this happens; it is because you are employed by someone with goodness in his heart.

if that's the case, be thankful

i know i am!

but concerning this job where i am not fairly treated:
that parable of the workers at the vineyard is not only about salvation. it is about being content with what you agreed to work for: this is what the vineyard owner rebuked the greedy workers over - he said to them, you agreed to work for a wage, and if i am generous with others, what is it to you?

as my wife always reminds me -- i agreed to work for a certain low wage. and as Christ reminds me, i do not work as though for men, but for Him - so i'm not going to dishonor Christ by "sitting down waiting for others to catch up with me" like you did. and i should not complain; that is selfish and unrighteous, and does not honor God.
i will work to the fullest of my ability, and that will bless this company with revenue, and when i am asked, i will tell people it is because i work as though for God, not for money. and God will be praised, not me

 

[coby2]

Holland is a social democracy?

It's capitalistic with socialist elements and a democracy, we have a few parties and people can choose. The rich want the most capitalistic and anti social one, so they get the most and the work people want the socialist party. They have to work together. We have one small christian party that's really good, social, but not drugs legalization etc.

 

[coby2]

We have the Balkenende norm here.

https://www.rnw.org/archive/prime-minister-pay-norm-stick-it-or-face-subsidy-cuts

 

[coby2]

Ehmm... this is supposed to be a socialist??? Yes, veery social.
The Presidential Paycheck – Where Obama Gets His Money

 

[PennEd]

ha, you would think so.

but guess what? it's time for post to leave the house for work.

i have several jobs. at this one, today, i will produce as much as 600% more revenue per hour than other people working along side me at the same wage. the closest anyone in this outfit comes to my production - working with exactly the same equipment, at the same function - is about 35 to 40% of my output. i am a math guy; i crunch these numbers by habit.

it is not a union job, and i only make about 11% more than the lowest paid worker. some of them are paid more than me though i produce 400% more revenue per hour for the company than those people do.

because it is not a union job, i do not receive wages anywhere near commensurate with my performance. it is a capitalist society with no motivation other than profit, and somewhere up the line, the division manager's job is to coldly pay me as little as possible, so that he can make bonuses for keeping costs down.

just so you know -- being paid what you are worth is a complete pipe dream, and it is not the necessary end of "not being in a socialist system" or being non-unionized. a union would fight for just that sort of fair wage. that is exactly the reason that unions were formed. just because some people are corrupt, does not mean the ideal is wrong -- perhaps it is not seniority that should be rewarded, but performance? "laziness" is not rewarded. people take advantage of the system because of the evil in their hearts, that's all.

if you work at a place that rewards performance -- i do, too, at a different job -- you are blessed, and it is not because of some economic or government system that this happens; it is because you are employed by someone with goodness in his heart.

if that's the case, be thankful

i know i am!

but concerning this job where i am not fairly treated:
that parable of the workers at the vineyard is not only about salvation. it is about being content with what you agreed to work for: this is what the vineyard owner rebuked the greedy workers over - he said to them, you agreed to work for a wage, and if i am generous with others, what is it to you?

as my wife always reminds me -- i agreed to work for a certain low wage. and as Christ reminds me, i do not work as though for men, but for Him - so i'm not going to dishonor Christ by "sitting down waiting for others to catch up with me" like you did. and i should not complain; that is selfish and unrighteous, and does not honor God.
i will work to the fullest of my ability, and that will bless this company with revenue, and when i am asked, i will tell people it is because i work as though for God, not for money. and God will be praised, not me

Brother, you have a complete misunderstanding of Capitalism. Nowhere in your post did you describe the gunman forcing you to stay at your position. The whole point is that if you do more work or are more valuable to your company, then you should be compensated as such, and if you are not, you are FREE to either go to a different company or get the capital to start your own company to COMPETE with the one you left.

YOU MAKE the point of the blatant unfairness of socialism with your post.

Have a blessed day.