Tithe!

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Proponents of the monetary tithe requirement doctrine are very adept at taking Scripture out of their intended context and applying them to something God never intended them to be.

Malachi 3 was written during the dispensation of the Law. The Law says that God's holy tithe was agricultural. Malachi 3, therefore, cannot be speaking of a monetary tithe, nor is it speaking of a tithe required by the New Testament Church.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Proponents of the monetary tithe requirement doctrine are very adept at taking Scripture out of their intended context and applying them to something God never intended them to be.

Malachi 3 was written during the dispensation of the Law. The Law says that God's holy tithe was agricultural. Malachi 3, therefore, cannot be speaking of a monetary tithe, nor is it speaking of a tithe required by the New Testament Church.

I'd like a tithing proponent to provide some Scripture that shows the word "tithe" or "tenth" or "tithes" and mentions cash money in the same verses.

In other words, Scripture references that clearly shows giving a tithe or tithes or tenths in the form of cash money...not Scripture where we have or should assume cash money is inferred while a tithe or tithes or tenths are mentioned.

Keep in mind that a tithe or tithes or tenth is not the same as either "offering(s)" or "first fruits". The three are separate and not synonymous.

Do any of the tithing proponents read my signature line?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Malachi’s instruction to prove God by bringing the tithes into the storehouse was not speaking of a monetary tithe. It was speaking of an agricultural tithe; the tithe required of the children of Israel at the time. (see Leviticus 27:30-34)

It had nothing to do with the New Testament Church whatsoever. The Priests of Israel were the ones God was speaking to. They had robbed God, and God wanted His tithes brought back to the storehouse from which they were removed.

Pastors have misused Malachi 3:8-10 and abused the flock over which God had made them overseers (see 1Peter 5:1-4) replacing the command for an agricultural tithe in Canaan with a command that is totally foreign to Scripture… the command to tithe money in the New Testament Church.

In Mark 12:39-44, Jesus warned of Scribes, religious leaders in the Temple who were robbing widow’s houses. Today, many religious leaders around the world continue not only to rob widows houses through the monetary tithe requirement lie, but they also rob every other household that believes their teaching that God requires monetary tithes of New Testament Church congregations.

In the Bible, tithes were never commanded for the New Testament Church, never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church. They were the property of Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners in Canaan.

Psalm 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

In the last place that tithing is seen as a command in the Word of God, Hebrews 7, it is still the sons of Levi to whom the tithe belongs, and the tithes are still according to the Law, i.e.; agricultural.

Pastors and Church Leadership need to repent of twisting the Word of God into a lie and begin teaching the Word as it is written. God’s commanded holy tithe was never monetary… it was agricultural.

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

 

[fredoheaven]

Analogy Number 1:

Abram later called Abraham was a man of faith. He lived by faith and was justified by faith. The analogy is that faith, the Abraham’s tenth, cannot contradict the believers under grace by faith who still upholds “the principle of the tenth” .Thus “Abraham’s tenth” is still carries the same effect on “the principle of tenth” for today because faith cannot contradict faith.

Analogy Number 2:

Moses was a servant of the LORD which have been given to him the Law, thus tithe is under the Law. Christian, nowadays are no longer bound by the Law. These uphold the grace by faith. Thus Grace by faith far exceeded and past the Law. The analogy is the Grace by faith now contradicts the Law.

I was just musing, to who really think teaching the Law? Number 1 and Number 2 both believe are no longer under the Law. Yet No. 2 insists or talks more often than No. 1 that tithe is of the Law, who supported its claim that tithe is under the Law and under his lips the Law, points or directs you to the Law, ready to die that tithes is all about the Law, while abandoning the Law or rule of first mention outright. Lo and behold! No 2 has its total despising of the No.1.

And those in Number 1, these are they who still uphold the teaching of “the principle of the tenth” which believes the principle of tithes was before or pre-dates the Law, who also believe that tithes were made part of the Law. Yes! No. 1 believes they were already redeemed under the Law, but one of the reason No. 1 still practice with grace the same “principle of the tenth” even after redeemed under the Law, because No 1 still believes that faith cannot contradict faith. The just shall live by faith, that’s Abraham, that’s Analogy No 1.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

"That faith, the Abraham's tenth"

Nowhere does the Bible say that the tenth Abram gave was given in faith. Nor does it say it was because of faith.

There is no "principle of the tenth." The argument for a tithe of monetary income cannot be supported by Scripture.

 

[fredoheaven]

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

This is the way I look these things on the subject of tithes, the things which are not seen, takes faith. Others cannot see the 10% because they look at the temporal things. What others view is the product; the produce which is the teaching of the Law where the Law is temporal. I am not against the product whether agri or money or any that is possible possessions as the Lord provides. Faith is eternal. We just live by faith. Love, faith and joy are but just an example of eternal but can be manifested or express through temporal. If someone see eternal things like 10%, he view the subject clearly of these things.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Your faith in tithing is in vain.

God's Word said the tithe was for no other nation but Israel.

Hebrews 7 clearly says it was for the Levites,... thirty-six years after the Church was established.

Hmmm, thirty-six years the Church is in operation, and no collecting of tithes for them. No teaching of tithes for the Church by the Apostles either.

There is a perfect explanation for that,... Since the Apostles did not teach tithing for the Church, they obviously saw things different than you. Their view,... Tithing is not for the Church.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hell was not preached by Paul, but it doesn't mean there's no hell and because there is no Apostolic command it does not mean there's no teaching of the principle of the tenth. We must see the unseen, that takes faith.

 

[fredoheaven]

Acts 20:35 I haveshewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, andto remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive

Paul quoted Christ but that's nowhere to be found in the 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) if you can provide me that particular verse it has been quoted then thank you. Provide me please... I'll wait...

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Hell was not preached by Paul, but it doesn't mean there's no hell and because there is no Apostolic command it does not mean there's no teaching of the principle of the tenth. We must see the unseen, that takes faith.

Your argument fails in light of the fact that tithes clearly belongs to the sons of Levi and according to the Law,... as stated thirty-six years after the Church was established. According to the Law.

This means that if tithes still exist, they are,

Agricultural only
Only to be observed in Canaan.
Only to be observed at the end of the Harvest

You argue against what God has written concerning His holy tithe,... totally unwise.

 

[fredoheaven]

So I see, some insist "Agricultural only" "observed in Canaan" "observed.." that is pertaining to the Law, going back to the Law, observed under the Law...catch the faith... but still waiting for some who can find me that verse where it was quoted by Paul. If not, see the unseen. Live it with faith. The just shall live by faith...

 

[fredoheaven]

I really don't want to argue with you because I have respect to the elders, I am just posting, it is you who I think argue. The best thing is to post your post and I will post mine too. Yes I am still on the process of studying and typing the arguments against tithing and its refutation on how it revolves or circles in its orbital system... hoping for the best. Still waiting for help on the passage or verse where to find that quotation of Christ in Acts 2:35 please

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

There is no cross-reference for Acts 20:35.

But, since the Word of God states that God's Word is Truth, I will not doubt that Jesus, at some time, did say, "It is more blessed to give than to receive".

as I also said, thirty-six years after the Church was established, the author of the book of Hebrews wrote that the tithe belongs to the sons of Levi and that it was agricultural.

The doctrine I teach is in perfect agreement with the Word of God, while yours is found nowhere in the Word.

Mine is truth, while yours is fabricated.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Your argument fails in light of the fact that tithes clearly belongs to the sons of Levi and according to the Law,... as stated thirty-six years after the Church was established. According to the Law.

This means that if tithes still exist, they are,

Agricultural only
Only to be observed in Canaan.
Only to be observed at the end of the Harvest

You argue against what God has written concerning His holy tithe,... totally unwise.

Please exlpain how the sons of Levi are eternal priests. Also, why Jesus is not High Priest of the new covenant, being of a different, older priesthood that still receives tithes long after the Levitical priests are gone.

It is obvious there is still a denial or great ignorance of Hebrews 7. In there we have the eternal One receiving tithes. Nothing has changed.

Satan is still blinding eyes such that Christians will be deceived to let their ministries die from lack of holding to truth, going broke, becoming toothless lions. It's happening in America, but the Church is rising elsewhere.

The original eternal priesthood accepted tithes of all of the "increase", while the dead priesthood of the Levites was based primarily on produce of the land in memorial of how God gave the fruitful land to Israel. That priesthood was changed, replaced by the original eternal priesthood that Abraham recognized 430 years before the Levitical.

I realize that's above many American minds, so what's left is to leave the ignorant to their own devices. Some will see it, believe the simple truth of the word of God. Most will fail, as proved by prophecy and history.

There is no curse for voluntary tithing, only promises from God. Keep your dollars, oh you deceived! You will need every penny, then be left obliged entirely to the world (Babylonian) economic system. It will totally fail, but not for those observing God's system. Meanwhile, God blesses the few who are not fearful of committing part of what God gives us. It doesn't take a majority to accomplish his will.

That's all I'm supposed to press in with. Belive the scriptures, or do what's "right" in your own eyes. The choice is yours.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Yes, I leave you to your own devices.

i do believe the Scriptures. The Scriptures teach that God's holy tithe was never of one's monetary income. The monetary tithe requirement doctrine is a doctrine fabricated in the minds of deceitful man and embraced by those who reject the truth.

 

[Dino246]

Hell was not preached by Paul, but it doesn't mean there's no hell and because there is no Apostolic command it does not mean there's no teaching of the principle of the tenth. We must see the unseen, that takes faith.

This is an interesting comparison, but it fails, because it is an argument from silence. Nobody is claiming that Paul did or did not believe in hell, and let's not get into that debate here.

There is no clear direct command from the apostles to the church regarding tithing. The fact that it is not mentioned in Acts 15 either as 'do' or 'do not' means it is lumped in with the rest of the Law... and Gentiles aren't bound to it. The Law IS clearly fulfilled in Christ. Galatians makes it clear that trying to finish the work of the Spirit by effort of the flesh is to fall from grace.

'Seeing the unseen by faith' is seeing by faith what God has promised but is not presently visible. It is not making up parts of Scripture where they are absent, or where a principle is clearly taught against in other passages. Poor hermeneutics, my friend!

 

[fredoheaven]

There is no cross-reference for Acts 20:35.

But, since the Word of God states that God's Word is Truth, I will not doubt that Jesus, at some time, did say, "It is more blessed to give than to receive".

That's without a doubt... Thank you sir! God bless

 

[fredoheaven]

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

In order into comprehend what the Bible truly says; it must be viewed in its breadth, length, depth and its height. While others may see only the breadth that’s fine, but not the length, the depth and the height in order to have a proper view…

So it’s the money that bothers some in regards to tithes. Let see what the Bible says about the money.
The first mention of the word “money” in the Bible is found in Genesis 17:12 which was the price paid for the slave (see also Genesis 17:13, 23, 27.) Monies especially in the Old Testament were measured based on its weight and were in the form of silver or in gold.

Here are the some of the usage of the money:

1. It was a means of trade or commerce. Genesis 23:9, 13, 16
2. Money can be also used to buyback or redeem tithes if the farmer wanted to. Leviticus 27:31-32
3. Tithes for the agricultural produced can be converted to money due to distance. Deuteronomy 14:22-28

REDEEMED TITHES:

Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land,or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

It is to be noted here in the above passage that only the tithe of the grain or fruit could be redeemed that is bought back by the owner at one fifth above the market value.

LONG DISTANCE TITHES

Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deuteronomy 14:23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deuteronomy 14: 24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deuteronomy 14: 25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose Deuteronomy 14: 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Here is David Guzick says of this tithe

a. But if the journey is too long for you: Since the tithe was to be brought to one place for the whole nation, some would be farther than others. And, if someone was far away, they would find it difficult to transport the grain and livestock the tithe required.
b. You shall exchange it for money: If distance prevented the easy transport of the animals, they could exchange their tithe for money, and then use the money to tithe with when they came to the tabernacle (and later, the temple).
c. You shall rejoice, you and your household: Laws like this show us that God is a common-sense God. He does not place unreasonable demands on His people. He made a way for them to more conveniently tithe.

​

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_Deu/Deu_14.cfm?a=167026

Matthew Henry says

“ In works of piety, for the first two years after the year of release. They must bring it up, either in kind or in the full value of it, to the place of the sanctuary, and there must spend it in holy feasting before the Lord. If they could do it with any convenience, they must bring it in kind (v. 23); but, if not, they might turn it into money (v. 24, 25), and that money must be laid out in something to feast upon before the Lord.”

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Deu/Deu_014.cfm?a=167026
Mr. Webster says:

CONVERT, v.t. [L., to turn; coinciding in elements and signification with barter.]
1. To change or turn into another substance or form; as, to convert gases into water, or water into ice.
2. To change from one state to another; as, to convert a barren waste into a fruitful field; to convert a wilderness into a garden; to convert rude savages into civilized men.

BESTOWED, ppr. Given gratuitously; conferred; laid out; applied; deposited for safe-keeping.
Smith Bible Dictionary:
(4.) All the produce of the soil was to be tithed every and these tithes with the firstlings of the flock and herd, were to be eaten in the metropolis.
(5.) But in case of distance, permission is given to convert the produce into money, which is to be taken to the appointed place, and there laid out in the purchase of food for a festal celebration, in which the Levite is, by special command, to be included (Deuteronomy 14:22-27).


https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=BT0004252

David Guzick, Matthew Henry, Smith Bible Dictionary, Mr. Webster of 1828 Dictionary and the King James Bible says that money was used in tithing. In the above passage, there’ no “buy back or redeemed” but instead to be laid out “bestowed”. So there we have the RECORD.

Leviticus 27:30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.

What to tithe is the “seed of the land” –All the land products especially the fruit of the tree as the verse signifies to include crops and vegetables but we cannot discount the fact that includes not only the agricultural produced of the land. The King James Bible define us this tithe of the land i.e, “…seed of the land” then uses the comma and the word “or” to represent other possible items to tithe such as the silver, gold , brass and iron to name a few which is actually the LORD’S- holy unto Him. It seems the Author-Moses was well acquainted on the subject of farming since that was their job at the time but did not ultimately viewed to one object or item only.

With that view in mind, the tithe of the land or the seed of the land includes the MONEY. What??? Are you then kidding us? You always joke us. What a poor, deceptive exegesis-hermeneutics…

The Bible contains science but it’s not a science book. It contains biology, chemistry, astronomy etc. It also contains philosophy, history, geography and the like. It covers all that there’s nothing hidden under the sun and that the Bible is the ALL scriptures which is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable. 2 Timothy 3:16

WELL, as said MONEY is silver and SILVER is the fruit of the land.

Wiki says

Silver mining has been undertaken since early times. As silver is a precious metal often used for coins, its mining has historically often been lucrative. As with other precious metals such as gold or platinum, newly discovered deposits of silver ore have sparked silver rushesof miners seeking their fortunes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_mining

BUT, I have today my 100 US Dollar Bills, where is that in the BIBLE???

Hey, It’s found in the MONEY TREE… NO AGAIN!!!That’s a Chinese MYTH…Nothing is said of that from the BIBLE???

Well, the 100 DOLLAR BILLS was only issued on 1861 including the 10 Dollar bill. Still I could not understand YOU. Again IT’s on the TREE… Explore it and you will find it but if you still do not find it then YOU are just blinded by the TRUTH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_one_hundred-dollar_bill
How Paper is Made

Thank you for now and GOD BLESS...

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

The commentary is wrong. The money in Deuteronomy was not the tithe. It was money. And it bought the tithe back in the case of Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

That tithe did not go to the Tabernacle. It was eaten by the farmer and his family.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Both Guzik and Henry are wrong. The money in Deuteronomy was not the tithe. It was money. And it bought the tithe back in the case of Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

That tithe did not go to the Tabernacle. It was eaten by the farmer and his family.

so Wiki is your authority as to what silver is, eh? No wonder you do not understand the Bible.

Leviticus 27:30.

seed of the land (notice it says seed, and not fruit. Silver is not fruit) - garden produce
fruit of the tree (silver is not

yes, dollar bills can be made from trees. However, that dollar is made in the government's image. It belongs to the government. Even Jesus said so in Matthew 22. Your argument, once again, fails miserably.