Asian Women

[Dread_Zeppelin]

Honestly, its a give and take situation. Lets face it, men do not respect women either in America. They look at us like we're play things and expect us to unclothe on the first date (after a lavish dinner of course). I'm not saying women didn't do this to themselves, but we're not the only ones who dont show respect. You tell a man that you're commited to sex only after marriage they look at you like you took away their favorite toy.

I dont know about you but I'm pretty hard working and respectful to people who aren't interested in being respectful back. You just have to meet the right Christian women who know that material things dont fulfill, dont matter, and aren't God's goal for our lives. You may say you can't find that person! Well then maybe you should come up to me after church instead of ignoring me week after week.

 

[QuestionTime]

This stereotype is so painful to me. I have been overlooked and misjudged as a Caucasian woman by Caucasian men because of the prevailing thought that we are all ungodly, unfeminine, and unsubmissive. Please brothers don't base your interest on the outward things, but on an individual woman's character.

Hey JoyBelle,

Please re-read this excerpt from my original post:

I have found that North American women - in general - do not have the same respect for men that these Asian women have.

A definition: "as a rule; usually: In general, the bus is here by 9 a.m."

The bus isn't always there at 9am, it just usually is.

Quest

 

[karuna]

Most noticeable to me is that these women - specifically new immigrants - have grown up in a culture where men are highly respected.

One thing to keep in mind is that immigrants, unless they feel alienated, are usually doing more listening than talking when they're around "natives." It's a survival and comfortability thing that can be confused with plain respectfulness. The fewer conversations you start yourself, the less tricky situations you get yourself into. The more intently you listen, the more you comprehend. Get them behind closed doors, however, and the claws come out.

If [North American women] sniff out a man and find that his position in life or confidence level is not equal to hers, they will often treat that man as an inferior.

Some subsets of Asian culture, the same ones that so highly esteem respectability, are incredibly classist. Emigrants immediately lose a little bit of this, simply because the usual social markers aren't present; i.e. I don't know how I should treat you, but it's dangerous to treat your betters poorly, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. This fades over time. It's a lot like how you don't call strangers fat to their face, because you don't know where the boundaries are, but when you're with your buddies it's ok to remark on beer bellies.

Even if she does respect your status, when you are finally "hers," she will still publicly shame you when appropriate. It's one of the things I've noticed Western women rarely do and never do with the same fervor and vocabulary of Asian women. Something to keep in mind.

 

[QuestionTime]

Honestly, its a give and take situation. Lets face it, men do not respect women either in America. They look at us like we're play things and expect us to unclothe on the first date (after a lavish dinner of course). I'm not saying women didn't do this to themselves, but we're not the only ones who dont show respect. You tell a man that you're commited to sex only after marriage they look at you like you took away their favorite toy.

I dont know about you but I'm pretty hard working and respectful to people who aren't interested in being respectful back. You just have to meet the right Christian women who know that material things dont fulfill, dont matter, and aren't God's goal for our lives. You may say you can't find that person! Well then maybe you should come up to me after church instead of ignoring me week after week.

Greetings Dread_Zeppelin,

I suppose that when I created this thread I should have been more specific as to which body of people I was referring to, either Christians or Heathens. In truth however, I was referring to all women in general, both Christians and Heathens combined.

Firstly, a heathen immigrant Asian woman - in general - has more respect for a man than a North American born Heathen Woman. This is not difficult to debate because of cultural upbringing.

Moving then into the Christian realm I would suspect that there is a much greater balance between the two. But since Christian Asian immigrants are raised to be more respectful, they don't have to change much in this area to be good Christian wives. North American Christian women - especially not raised in Christian homes - would require a lot of change in that particular area of their lives.

No offense was intended in this thread. I was just speaking "In General."

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

One thing to keep in mind is that immigrants, unless they feel alienated, are usually doing more listening than talking when they're around "natives." It's a survival and comfortability thing that can be confused with plain respectfulness. The fewer conversations you start yourself, the less tricky situations you get yourself into. The more intently you listen, the more you comprehend. Get them behind closed doors, however, and the claws come out.



Some subsets of Asian culture, the same ones that so highly esteem respectability, are incredibly classist. Emigrants immediately lose a little bit of this, simply because the usual social markers aren't present; i.e. I don't know how I should treat you, but it's dangerous to treat your betters poorly, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. This fades over time. It's a lot like how you don't call strangers fat to their face, because you don't know where the boundaries are, but when you're with your buddies it's ok to remark on beer bellies.

Even if she does respect your status, when you are finally "hers," she will still publicly shame you when appropriate. It's one of the things I've noticed Western women rarely do and never do with the same fervor and vocabulary of Asian women. Something to keep in mind.

Very interesting post Karuna! I simply can't debate you on these things because I have no experience with Asian women behind closed doors. You may very well be right.

I apologize, but could you tell me which country you are from? I'm not familiar with that flag.

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

I've always wanted to marry someone green...or perhaps purple. On a serious note, I do find asian women nicer and more polite to talk with. The average aussie girl ignores you and is more like a snob. It's funny that I'm in a different country to the OP and i have also noticed this.

 

[QuestionTime]

To be honest, a great deal of women in my life have subjugated men, played with them, treated their honest advances as disgusting (showing a total lack of understanding in their hearts), been impatient, been fearful and weak on the inside while being offensive and authoritarian on the outside, ripped on men, disrespected them, treated them like objects, acted arrogantly, acted openly flirtatious and seductive in order to feel good about themselves while lowering men to their feet... I live in America. So you can tell my perspective of most American women from this post. I believe - as another poster stated on these forums - that every person should have the chance to start with a clean slate. And I say this in spite of my perspective of American women.

I did hit a nerve with this post! Wow! There are men out there who are really angry with what women in America have become!

You know, this is all from satan, it really is. The secret satanic societies have done all they can to pit the sexes off against each other in order to destroy families. They have succeeded greatly as there seems to be war between the sexes non-stop. This is all glorified on television and made to be comical. Husbands in television are all insensitive jerks, children are sarcastic and women rule the homes. People watch this and they laugh and laugh, and they begin to think that's what a normal family is.

God, please help us!

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

asian women ring me at work and insist on harassing me using broken english - they're persistent and they don't go away.

whenever i'm on a plane, i ALWAYS somehow sit next to an asian woman, who falls asleep in 2 seconds and i'm constantly jumping over her to get out of my seat.

yes this contribution was not insightful.

I suppose I didn't consider all the variables before coming to my conclusion...

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

*sings* "what we need is a great big melting pot hmm hmm"

 

[J0Y]

LOL @ the Kim and Luke show!!! ;-)

P.S - I do agree Kim on the weird preference thing.......as in whether you prefer....chocolate....caramel....or vanilla! LOL
ie: everyone has their tastes BUTTTTTT I do hate stereotypes and think people are so often unfairly judged.
Thats all.....as you were

 

[Ashton]

Honestly, its a give and take situation. Lets face it, men do not respect women either in America. They look at us like we're play things and expect us to unclothe on the first date (after a lavish dinner of course). I'm not saying women didn't do this to themselves, but we're not the only ones who dont show respect. You tell a man that you're commited to sex only after marriage they look at you like you took away their favorite toy.

I dont know about you but I'm pretty hard working and respectful to people who aren't interested in being respectful back. You just have to meet the right Christian women who know that material things dont fulfill, dont matter, and aren't God's goal for our lives. You may say you can't find that person! Well then maybe you should come up to me after church instead of ignoring me week after week.

I actually believe that why women in general are the way they are today is because men abused their authority over them in the past. It's sad and unfortunate. In my last relationship with my ex, whenever we got on such a topic, I would say that the husband is supposed to be the head of the wife just as Christ is supposed to be the head of the man. Even though my ex would agree on this point she would completely disagree with me if I said something similar but apparently related to the Bible. If I said, "The husband should be the leader of the family," then she would go into defensive mode and say, "We're equal partners in Christ." And you know what? That's true, and that's something the husband should always keep in mind. But what the wife should keep in mind is that the husband is still supposed to be the leader. Why? Possibly because it typifies our relationship with Christ and the husband is supposed to be representative of Christ.

What this means to me is having the final say in all things (if that be his decision), but also valuing the input of his Beloved and making his decisions with such advice in mind. Unless men keep Christ as their head they have no right to be the head of a woman, and I think that's the problem that this nation has. God is a dictator, meaning he has absolute power, but he chooses to give us freedom of choice and I believe this should be the position of the husband in a marriage. What my ex was implying was that there should be no leader in the family and everyone should do their separate thing or else should try to work through their problems and compromise. However, the latter usually involved me compromising on my will and obeying her. It did not sit well with me. But I had already rejected Christ as my head and accepted the woman as my head by bowing to her seduction. That was my error and my authority was rightfully stripped from me. I don't mean to say all women are evil. I just mean to say that in my experience it has been quite the opposite of the presumed convention: women subjugate men and not the other way around.

This is a horrible distortion of the Scriptures, but I cannot say most men do not deserve it. I agree with Question Time on this one and believe that the media plays an important role in undermining that God-ordained authority vested in men.

Dread Zeppelin, I feel for you, because I know what you mean. So many women will even claim that they want a godly man but will then only devote their time to looking for that 'bad boy' persona. Then when they find him he cheats on them and they get mad at men and claim there aren't any good ones out there. And I don't mean to say that you cannot be a Christian while being cool, smooth, respectable, handsome, fun, funny and a leader. It's just that many people out there tend to blend ability with practice; if they can get lots of girls then they get lots of girls. If they can be a player then they be a player. So finding that 'bad boy' persona in a good Christian man is a hard thing to come by because so many people abuse such talent and class simply because they can.

Honestly, I look for someone who has the characteristics not of a teenage wench when I get to know them on the inside but of a lady: a refined humility which allows for humor (I'd hate to be with someone who could never poke fun at me because of some misguided notion of humility), intelligence, beauty (often natural - I love women who can live by natural beauty and not put a dab of makeup on themselves), politeness, respect, godliness, inner strength, optimism, gentle speech (this means not talking about how many guys you'd like to bang when your boyfriend is sitting next to you).

 

[Ashton]

but apparently related to the Bible.

Sorry, that should be 'unrelated'

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

I actually believe that why women in general are the way they are today is because men abused their authority over them in the past. It's sad and unfortunate. In my last relationship with my ex, whenever we got on such a topic, I would say that the husband is supposed to be the head of the wife just as Christ is supposed to be the head of the man. Even though my ex would agree on this point she would completely disagree with me if I said something similar but apparently related to the Bible. If I said, "The husband should be the leader of the family," then she would go into defensive mode and say, "We're equal partners in Christ." And you know what? That's true, and that's something the husband should always keep in mind. But what the wife should keep in mind is that the husband is still supposed to be the leader. Why? Possibly because it typifies our relationship with Christ and the husband is supposed to be representative of Christ.

What this means to me is having the final say in all things (if that be his decision), but also valuing the input of his Beloved and making his decisions with such advice in mind. Unless men keep Christ as their head they have no right to be the head of a woman, and I think that's the problem that this nation has. God is a dictator, meaning he has absolute power, but he chooses to give us freedom of choice and I believe this should be the position of the husband in a marriage. What my ex was implying was that there should be no leader in the family and everyone should do their separate thing or else should try to work through their problems and compromise. However, the latter usually involved me compromising on my will and obeying her. It did not sit well with me. But I had already rejected Christ as my head and accepted the woman as my head by bowing to her seduction. That was my error and my authority was rightfully stripped from me. I don't mean to say all women are evil. I just mean to say that in my experience it has been quite the opposite of the presumed convention: women subjugate men and not the other way around.

This is a horrible distortion of the Scriptures, but I cannot say most men do not deserve it. I agree with Question Time on this one and believe that the media plays an important role in undermining that God-ordained authority vested in men.

Dread Zeppelin, I feel for you, because I know what you mean. So many women will even claim that they want a godly man but will then only devote their time to looking for that 'bad boy' persona. Then when they find him he cheats on them and they get mad at men and claim there aren't any good ones out there. And I don't mean to say that you cannot be a Christian while being cool, smooth, respectable, handsome, fun, funny and a leader. It's just that many people out there tend to blend ability with practice; if they can get lots of girls then they get lots of girls. If they can be a player then they be a player. So finding that 'bad boy' persona in a good Christian man is a hard thing to come by because so many people abuse such talent and class simply because they can.

Honestly, I look for someone who has the characteristics not of a teenage wench when I get to know them on the inside but of a lady: a refined humility which allows for humor (I'd hate to be with someone who could never poke fun at me because of some misguided notion of humility), intelligence, beauty (often natural - I love women who can live by natural beauty and not put a dab of makeup on themselves), politeness, respect, godliness, inner strength, optimism, gentle speech (this means not talking about how many guys you'd like to bang when your boyfriend is sitting next to you).

Although you are right my point was that all parties ,male and female, are guilty. To say that women are the sole offenders of being disrespectful obvoiusly doesnt put into account discriminataion at the workplace, forced rape statistics, beatings in the home, daily extortion of our bodies being sexual objects, and many other seriously life altering offenses against women.

Maybe we're rude because we've had to take care of ourselves for so long. How many women leave marriages in their 40's and 50's because "they found a younger man"? How many men have to get plastic surgery because they dont feel pretty enough, because that's how our very worth is measured? Women are in a sad state these days. Yeah there are some crass gossipy horriblely destructive women out there, and yeah we can be bossy, but when you get hurt it's easy to think its a dog-eat-dog world out there and file your teeth for the next fight.

If theres one thing that women do best it's going overboard. Being "strong" turns into being vicious and controlling. If you can find the balance between being respectful, strong and responsible then you are a level headed woman. Otherwise being too "strong" turns into bitterness and sin. This is where our problem gets sticky. I see it happen all the time, we try to beat men at their own game and end up just as controling and hurtful as they were.

Not saying its right, not in the very least, the man should be the head of the home...It's Biblical and I'm all about Christ. I pray that my future husband is a wise Jesus-seeking man (why would I resent being under a man like that?) I'm only telling you WHY women seek control and authority (not specific to Christian women). Like I said, neither gender is right and there are always exceptions.

 

[Ashton]

Although you are right my point was that all parties ,male and female, are guilty. To say that women are the sole offenders of being disrespectful obvoiusly doesnt put into account discriminataion at the workplace, forced rape statistics, beatings in the home, daily extortion of our bodies being sexual objects, and many other seriously life altering offenses against women.

Maybe we're rude because we've had to take care of ourselves for so long. How many women leave marriages in their 40's and 50's because "they found a younger man"? How many men have to get plastic surgery because they dont feel pretty enough, because that's how our very worth is measured? Women are in a sad state these days. Yeah there are some crass gossipy horriblely destructive women out there, and yeah we can be bossy, but when you get hurt it's easy to think its a dog-eat-dog world out there and file your teeth for the next fight.

If theres one thing that women do best it's going overboard. Being "strong" turns into being vicious and controlling. If you can find the balance between being respectful, strong and responsible then you are a level headed woman. Otherwise being too "strong" turns into bitterness and sin. This is where our problem gets sticky. I see it happen all the time, we try to beat men at their own game and end up just as controling and hurtful as they were.

Not saying its right, not in the very least, the man should be the head of the home...It's Biblical and I'm all about Christ. I pray that my future husband is a wise Jesus-seeking man (why would I resent being under a man like that?) I'm only telling you WHY women seek control and authority (not specific to Christian women). Like I said, neither gender is right and there are always exceptions.

You know what? I agree almost completely with you. The only thing I would add more to is discrimination in the workplace. Where I work 100% of the managers are women because the only manager of 10 who was a man just got fired. The top manager is a woman and one of those obese, opinionated, defensive women at that. I practically got chewed out by her for 'telling her how to do her job' because I took note of what was working in my field of expertise and what wasn't and offered a suggestion of how it could better be managed (on a questionaire of how management was doing no less!).

I have seemed to notice that women can go overboard in being strong by turning it into being offensive. That's why I say I'm looking for a woman with inner strength - not a defensive barricade of tooth and nail which her cowardly heart hides behind. A woman like that has issues and needs psychological help, because the simple love of a man isn't going to help her if she's been deeply hurt by 'loving' men before. So... I agree with what you've said. Women can be cruel, but it's usually because men have been cruel to them. On the flip side, though, I can't think of a man in my life who has become so jaded to women that he can't treat one right as often seems to be the case with women in my life.

I don't know what it is about women that makes them different than men in this respect. Indignity is alright, but what I've seen is overreaction. In essence, we all have been wronged, but it seems women tend to take it a step further and declare mortal war on the opposite gender whereas men not so much. And honestly that can make me feel walked-on by someone who is weaker than I simply because I have enough self-control not to do the same.

 

[DinoDillinger]

This is a very interesting thread. Now before I go on to seemingly bash american women, I will say that current western culture has also torn down the biblical idea of what it means to be a man. Even from a secular person's perspective, men today don't really deserve respect. We have become selfish, lazy, irresponsible, weak, very disrepectful of women, rude, crass, I could go on. Now biblically I would say that men also don't deserve respect, we are fallen creatures, full of ungodlyness, easily misguided beings. A christian man is in a process called sactification. If we were already totally sactified then it would be alot easier to respect us. Therefore a wife respecting her husband is counted as grace in my book and not something that is given because it is deserved. Part of the woman's curse is that the man will rule over her as seen in Genesis. As a man in leadership in his house, we are to look to the example set by our Savior as an example of what leadership looks like.

It seems alot of western women, who claim they want a 'good christian man', buy into modern thought on the roles of the sexes in marriage. They want a man to love them as Christ loved the church but the idea that they should submit to the man's authority is considered sexist/outdated/unfair. I'm sure it runs contrary to our nature as humans, but we are supposed to die to self daily. It is also one thing to struggle following a biblical principle, but another to claim that it either isn't biblical or no longer applies. To those women who think that way I say, a 'good christian man' is probably going to write you off from consideration when they see that you plan on having your way when you feel that your right. A house divided cannot stand. As far as what women are left to do when wronged by their husband the bible also gives advice on that matter, it says do not repay evil with evil but good, as you will reap hot coals on their head. That can be a tough cookie, but one that all christians are supposed to practice in our daily walk. It also says that vengeance belongs to God. I would say let God fight your husband rather than taking him on yourself. Anyways, just my thoughts...

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

The difference between women saying "I want a good Christian man" and myself saying it is that I dont have a "...and he has to be tall and handsome and in a band and funny and my everything!"

All I really want is a good Christian man. I dont care how fat he is, how old he is, how broke he is. I just want a man to lead me to Christ and love me unconditionally.

 

[karuna]

the bible also gives advice on that matter, it says do not repay evil with evil but good, as you will heap hot coals on their head.

I know this is off the topic, but I've always felt this verse is odd. Like, neener, neener, I'm not going to get revenge (so you can go simmer, loser). What does this verse really mean?

 

[Ashton]

This is a very interesting thread. Now before I go on to seemingly bash american women, I will say that current western culture has also torn down the biblical idea of what it means to be a man. Even from a secular person's perspective, men today don't really deserve respect. We have become selfish, lazy, irresponsible, weak, very disrepectful of women, rude, crass, I could go on. Now biblically I would say that men also don't deserve respect, we are fallen creatures, full of ungodlyness, easily misguided beings. A christian man is in a process called sactification. If we were already totally sactified then it would be alot easier to respect us. Therefore a wife respecting her husband is counted as grace in my book and not something that is given because it is deserved. Part of the woman's curse is that the man will rule over her as seen in Genesis. As a man in leadership in his house, we are to look to the example set by our Savior as an example of what leadership looks like.

It seems alot of western women, who claim they want a 'good christian man', buy into modern thought on the roles of the sexes in marriage. They want a man to love them as Christ loved the church but the idea that they should submit to the man's authority is considered sexist/outdated/unfair. I'm sure it runs contrary to our nature as humans, but we are supposed to die to self daily. It is also one thing to struggle following a biblical principle, but another to claim that it either isn't biblical or no longer applies. To those women who think that way I say, a 'good christian man' is probably going to write you off from consideration when they see that you plan on having your way when you feel that your right. A house divided cannot stand. As far as what women are left to do when wronged by their husband the bible also gives advice on that matter, it says do not repay evil with evil but good, as you will reap hot coals on their head. That can be a tough cookie, but one that all christians are supposed to practice in our daily walk. It also says that vengeance belongs to God. I would say let God fight your husband rather than taking him on yourself. Anyways, just my thoughts...

Agreed, Dino. The concern is primarily with the absence or presence of a God-centered life. Men misuse their position of authority over women, women get defensive and hurt men, men retaliate through exasperation (sometimes through physical means such as beatings), women retaliate once more through secretive means because a direct confrontation seems less successful. This reminds me of the time a man cheated on his wife and while he was sleeping next to his wife in bed at night she got scissors and cut off his genitalia. Not a pretty picture.

To be perfectly honest with you all I used to think that Genesis 3:16 meant that the woman would constantly be trying to achieve domination over the man but the man would rule over her. That's how distorted my view of women had become. I think as long as we trust in God to repay evil with what it deserves and to be appreciative of our God-centered hearts we will be much more capable of patience and respect in times of adversity.

 

[Ashton]

The difference between women saying "I want a good Christian man" and myself saying it is that I dont have a "...and he has to be tall and handsome and in a band and funny and my everything!"

All I really want is a good Christian man. I dont care how fat he is, how old he is, how broke he is. I just want a man to lead me to Christ and love me unconditionally.

Well, I'm broke, in debt, don't have a car, don't have a license, am 23 years old, have to take multiple injections of insulin a day to live, have no sense of fashion, have no friends... Want to hook up?

Actually, to be serious you wouldn't believe what I've put myself through in order to try to get my license. I've got another driver's test coming up soon, too, which I may very well fail. I've got $130 in my bank account and $4000 in college debt (five years of college) and two part-time jobs that get me an average of 3-4 hours of work a day. The lack of fashion pretty much stems from the lack of funds and the having no friends in my immediate area just means I don't get out very often because of a lack of transportation and my feelings of guilt when I mooch off of other people for rides. A lot of it's circumstantial. I really am an entrepreneur if you can believe it. To illustrate, a couple days ago I signed up to take autobody classes because I thought it would be interesting and lucrative. Then some person robbed a bank in that general area and the class was canceled. I still got a ride there to make sure it was canceled. Lots of red tape in my life I guess. But, God willing, I'll make it.

Anyway, I'm just messing with you. I only like to date someone who is a Torah-observant Christian/Messianic Christian. The reason is two-fold: 1. I believe in observance to the Torah and its applicability today (although I believe salvation is by faith in God through Christ and not by works/legalism) and 2. many people wouldn't bother to observe the Torah even if they believed it to be the right thing to do because they aren't serious in their relationship with God. And if they're not serious in their relationship with God then they're not going to be serious in their relationship with me.

 

[Sharp]

*ring, ring*

Sharp!! You go way!! Stop posting in forum, now!! You no help at all!!! *zonks out, falls asleep*

*probably from laughing so hard*

hahahaha thats hilarious!