Isaiah said we have all gone like sheep who went astray. Sheep who went astray are lost sheep. So there are sheep that FOLLOW Jesus and there are sheep that went astray. As for Jesus finding the lost sheep: This is not a guarantee. Read the passage for yourself. It suggests that he may not find the one sheep who was lost.
The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists
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K
He would not be telling me I am unborn because I do nothing but from love defend His teachings.
What I am showing by the Holy Spirit working through me is how the scriptures you give and the ones I give do not contradict.
They go hand and hand when used in the proper context, and not twisted as later day scholars have done adding to the meanings of the original Greek or completely rewriting their meanings.
I have used scripture and the original Greek context and meanings to show that the usage of the word "believe" from Apostle John does not contradict the teachings of Apostle Paul that one has to continue in the faith of Christ to receive eternal life.
Later day scholars from the 4th century on have changed the context of believe to make it a one time past action, when it is actually a continuous action.
The bible can not contradict itself which is why I have been lead by the Holy Spirit to instruct on the warnings of disobedience and returning to sin that the Apostle Paul instructed believers on. I have accepted my calling and have spent now over 6 years on this guidance by the Spirit.
Both James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal son teach that you can go from a saved state, to a lost state, and then back again to a saved state. The father said to the Prodigal son that he was "dead" and was "alive again" two times when the son returned home. This is speaking in spiritual terms of course.
K
What does the Parable of the Lost Sheep say?
It says that unless they repent the will not be brought back into the fold, and if they remain in a sinful lost state of disobedience Jesus says they will be appointed a place with the unbelievers.
Matthew 25 separation of the Sheep and the Goats shows 2 groups that believe in Jesus as Lord.
1) Sheep get eternal life because they walked in love, forgiveness, and mercy
2) Goats get sent to eternal punishment for not walking in love, as denying others Jesus says is denying Him
So if a lost sheep remains lost because they do not repent, are they not denying the Lord to do their own thing? YES
It says that unless they repent the will not be brought back into the fold, and if they remain in a sinful lost state of disobedience Jesus says they will be appointed a place with the unbelievers.
Matthew 25 separation of the Sheep and the Goats shows 2 groups that believe in Jesus as Lord.
1) Sheep get eternal life because they walked in love, forgiveness, and mercy
2) Goats get sent to eternal punishment for not walking in love, as denying others Jesus says is denying Him
So if a lost sheep remains lost because they do not repent, are they not denying the Lord to do their own thing? YES
Dear Jonl:
As for falling away: Here is a passage that makes it unmistakable that such is a possibility for the believer.
1 Timothy 6:11-15
"But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan."
Did you see what it said? In context of the previous verses, it says that we are to refuse in providing financially to young believing widows. Why? Well, if we were to give the younger (believing) widows money they will then begin to wax wanton against Christ (because they are trusting in that money) and they will marry again for the wrong reasons and have damnation casting off their first faith. It then says, some have already turned aside after Satan. Now, lets understand something here. Unbelievers cannot turn aside unto Satan. They are already in Satan's grip and need to be born again spiritually into the Kingdom of God. I cannot depart (turn aside or away from) Houston airport unless I am in Houston airport. Only believers can turn aside after Satan.
Also, these widows are said to have cast off their first faith. You can't cast off something that you don't have. You can't cast off a ball in your hand unless you possess the ball. You have to be in possession of something in order to cast that thing off.
I hope you prayerfully consider the following passage above and do not rush thru in reading it. Study it and pray about it and let God's Word be true.
Anyways, may God bless you.
And please be well.
Sincerely,
~ Jason.
...
As for falling away: Here is a passage that makes it unmistakable that such is a possibility for the believer.
1 Timothy 6:11-15
"But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan."
Did you see what it said? In context of the previous verses, it says that we are to refuse in providing financially to young believing widows. Why? Well, if we were to give the younger (believing) widows money they will then begin to wax wanton against Christ (because they are trusting in that money) and they will marry again for the wrong reasons and have damnation casting off their first faith. It then says, some have already turned aside after Satan. Now, lets understand something here. Unbelievers cannot turn aside unto Satan. They are already in Satan's grip and need to be born again spiritually into the Kingdom of God. I cannot depart (turn aside or away from) Houston airport unless I am in Houston airport. Only believers can turn aside after Satan.
Also, these widows are said to have cast off their first faith. You can't cast off something that you don't have. You can't cast off a ball in your hand unless you possess the ball. You have to be in possession of something in order to cast that thing off.
I hope you prayerfully consider the following passage above and do not rush thru in reading it. Study it and pray about it and let God's Word be true.
Anyways, may God bless you.
And please be well.
Sincerely,
~ Jason.
...
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Forgiveness from God is not a repeated event.
It was finished at the Cross.
Once you enter into His provision of cleansing, you're clean forever - that's why you're 'saved completely, to the uttermost' according to Hebrews 7.
Christ Blood > than your sin, period. Forever.
If you're in Christ, these things are true:
There's no wash, rinse, and repeat in the Gospel.
-JGIG
It was finished at the Cross.
Once you enter into His provision of cleansing, you're clean forever - that's why you're 'saved completely, to the uttermost' according to Hebrews 7.
Christ Blood > than your sin, period. Forever.
If you're in Christ, these things are true:
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” (from Jer. 31, Heb. 10)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)
There's no wash, rinse, and repeat in the Gospel.
-JGIG
J
hi Jason, Thank you for the response.
This link might give better interpretations of I Timothy 5:11 --
1 Timothy 5:11 Commentaries: But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,
excerpt:
Geneva Study Bible
{10} But the younger widows {d} refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
(10) The first reason why younger widows are not to be admitted to this ministry, that is, because of the unsteadiness of their age they will at length shake off the burden that Christ has laid upon them, and think rather upon marrying again: and so will forsake the ministry to which they had bound themselves.
(d) Take them not into the assembly of widows.
The interpretations of these bible scholars refer more to refusing younger widows to be accepted in service to a church ministry, rather than just giving them money. It would be harder for the younger widows to dedicate their lives to church ministry if their youthful energy led them to want a family and social life, rather than being cloistered in a strict church ministry.
Thank you for bringing I Timothy 5:11 to my attention. My concern was the use of the word “unsaved” after being “born again.” Another word is “backslidden.” The idea of being “unsaved” might mean a cycle of being saved, unsaved, repentance, saved again, unsaved, repentance, saved again, etc. But I agree that there can be a serious falling away from faith, and that repentance is needed.
This link might give better interpretations of I Timothy 5:11 --
1 Timothy 5:11 Commentaries: But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,
excerpt:
Geneva Study Bible
{10} But the younger widows {d} refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
(10) The first reason why younger widows are not to be admitted to this ministry, that is, because of the unsteadiness of their age they will at length shake off the burden that Christ has laid upon them, and think rather upon marrying again: and so will forsake the ministry to which they had bound themselves.
(d) Take them not into the assembly of widows.
The interpretations of these bible scholars refer more to refusing younger widows to be accepted in service to a church ministry, rather than just giving them money. It would be harder for the younger widows to dedicate their lives to church ministry if their youthful energy led them to want a family and social life, rather than being cloistered in a strict church ministry.
Thank you for bringing I Timothy 5:11 to my attention. My concern was the use of the word “unsaved” after being “born again.” Another word is “backslidden.” The idea of being “unsaved” might mean a cycle of being saved, unsaved, repentance, saved again, unsaved, repentance, saved again, etc. But I agree that there can be a serious falling away from faith, and that repentance is needed.
No. The scholars are wrong, my friend. Read the chapter and pray about it. Why? Because it says this.
"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth" (1 Timothy 5:6).
Now, how can you be dead while you live? It means one is spiritually dead. This is talking about believing widows here.
Were these widows once saved? Why wouldn't they be if they accepted Christ, right? But if they turned aside after Satan, then they switched sides and went back to the devil again.
"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth" (1 Timothy 5:6).
Now, how can you be dead while you live? It means one is spiritually dead. This is talking about believing widows here.
Were these widows once saved? Why wouldn't they be if they accepted Christ, right? But if they turned aside after Satan, then they switched sides and went back to the devil again.
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22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (from 1 Cor. 1)
It's not cocky to state what the Scriptures clearly say. We Gentiles who did not receive Christ were/are fools.
The ground is quite level at the foot of the Cross.
This business of there being 'believers' before the Cross - as someone else stated, believers in God, yes - but the Work of Christ is what saves us and it is belief in Him that we have salvation. That simply was not a possibility before the Cross:
13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. (from Heb. 11)
4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (from Eph. 3)
26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (from Col. 1)
39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. (from Heb. 11)
4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (from Eph. 3)
26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (from Col. 1)
People before the Cross didn't have Christ in them, the hope of glory. They just didn't. They were not believers in the New Covenant sense, though many of them did believe in God and had faith in His Promise. Yet they did not have God's Spirit living in them like we do, though God did empower some for a time for His purposes.
There's even a Scripture in 1 Pet. 3 that alludes to Christ Himself going to the 'spirits imprisoned', those who 'were disobedient long ago' -
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
Earlier in that same letter we see this:
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
So we have, after the Cross, Christ Himself preaching of His Work - that He suffered ONCE for sins (all inclusive, EVERYONE'S SINS FOR ALL TIME - that's how we know that sins are forgiven, past, present, AND future), the righteous for the unrighteous to bring us all to God, no matter our position on the timeline.
But anyone who died before the Work of the Cross simply could not be re-born and have Christ in them. I believe that they were all given the opportunity by Christ Himself to believe in Christ and His Work in order to receive eternal life - God is merciful and gracious and just - they were not doomed because of where they fell on the timeline or because they were born into idolatrous nations (and with Israel's history in view that applies to them and Gentiles).
Jason says that to say that Christ was not preaching to believers like we are in Mt. 6 is preposterous. Those folks before the Cross could not be like we who believe in Christ are - it was not yet possible - they did not have Christ in them, the hope of glory, because the Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension had not yet occurred, and Christ's New Covenant Priesthood had not yet been established!
I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.
-JGIG
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. Those who don't believe to the saving of the soul were never saved.
We must repent in order to be saved because if we don't repent then we won't believe and become saved. Repentance precedes saving belief/faith. Do you (like those who attend the church of Christ) reverse this scriptural order?
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he that believeth not shall be damned. The omission of baptized with "believeth not" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or damned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus Himself not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. 47 Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM) just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*
Do you really believe that one must be water baptized in order to be saved? - "dipped or condemned." Salvation by water baptism is taught in the Roman Catholic church, the Mormon church and the church of Christ, just to name a few. Where do you attend church? I'm not hearing Jason teach salvation by water baptism.
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he that believeth not shall be damned. The omission of baptized with "believeth not" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or damned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus Himself not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. 47 Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM) just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*
Do you really believe that one must be water baptized in order to be saved? - "dipped or condemned." Salvation by water baptism is taught in the Roman Catholic church, the Mormon church and the church of Christ, just to name a few. Where do you attend church? I'm not hearing Jason teach salvation by water baptism.
You wrongly assume that the New Covenant is an agreement between God and the believer in Christ.
It's not.
The New Covenant is an agreement between God and Himself, manifested and carried out by Christ. God set the terms, Christ fulfilled them, and the result is an agreement into which we enter as beneficiaries freely by faith. It's steadfastness is not based on our 'true love' for God, but on the Work of Christ on our behalf:
I'm with you on the free will thing - we enter into the Covenant cut between the Father and the Son by an act of belief in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. The 'true love' thing is a response to the love of God, and your romanticized notion of it demonstrates that you may have stretched some Biblical metaphors beyond their intent.
We love God because He first loved us. My husband and I have seven children. They love us because we first loved them - they respond to and reciprocate our love. When we receive Christ, we are born of God. Same concept. We learn to trust God in all areas of our lives over the course of our lives - Him building relationship with us, us building relationship with Him . . . and it's all rooted in the hope that is set before us - the anchor for our soul - the Work of Christ. And He is soooo much more dependable than human parents are in His feeding, nurturing, disciplining, steadfastness, dependability, and ultimate provision for us \o/!
That's the true love in which believers in Christ can rest.
-JGIG
It's not.
The New Covenant is an agreement between God and Himself, manifested and carried out by Christ. God set the terms, Christ fulfilled them, and the result is an agreement into which we enter as beneficiaries freely by faith. It's steadfastness is not based on our 'true love' for God, but on the Work of Christ on our behalf:
13 When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “I will surely bless you and give you many descendants.” 15 And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.
16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. (from Heb. 6)
16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. (from Heb. 6)
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (from Heb. 9)
23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (from Heb. 9)
I'm with you on the free will thing - we enter into the Covenant cut between the Father and the Son by an act of belief in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. The 'true love' thing is a response to the love of God, and your romanticized notion of it demonstrates that you may have stretched some Biblical metaphors beyond their intent.
We love God because He first loved us. My husband and I have seven children. They love us because we first loved them - they respond to and reciprocate our love. When we receive Christ, we are born of God. Same concept. We learn to trust God in all areas of our lives over the course of our lives - Him building relationship with us, us building relationship with Him . . . and it's all rooted in the hope that is set before us - the anchor for our soul - the Work of Christ. And He is soooo much more dependable than human parents are in His feeding, nurturing, disciplining, steadfastness, dependability, and ultimate provision for us \o/!
That's the true love in which believers in Christ can rest.
-JGIG
Please explain to us what you believe it means to be "saved through faith." Describe to us what you believe it means to "believe the gospel."
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Those who do not obey the gospel have not believed the gospel.
The gospel of Christ is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the Savior of all who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES..
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Those who do not obey the gospel have not believed the gospel.
The gospel of Christ is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the Savior of all who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES..
But I thought you said that only confession and repentance is necessary for forgiveness . . . .
More doublemindedness . . .
You're not living by faith in Christ, but by faith in confession and repentance, but you don't even believe that works, apparently, since if you sin there is no more sacrifice for you (a flawed interpretation of that verse, btw - that passage is speaking of the specific sin of unbelief in Christ).
-JGIG
More doublemindedness . . .
You're not living by faith in Christ, but by faith in confession and repentance, but you don't even believe that works, apparently, since if you sin there is no more sacrifice for you (a flawed interpretation of that verse, btw - that passage is speaking of the specific sin of unbelief in Christ).
-JGIG
But you just said there's no more sacrifice for those who sin willfully . . . you cannot have it both ways.
-JGIG
-JGIG
It's not sufficient to give mere lip service to Christ. Doing what Jesus says after we have been saved through faith is our reasonable service and is the RESULT of salvation, not the cause. A tree is known by it's fruit. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. Romans 10:9 - If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Such a person does not sit around and never do anything that the Lord says. So "saved but never do anything that Jesus says and He is not your Lord" is an OXYMORON.
To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21 not the righteous, who are born of God - 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9. Hebrews 10:39 - Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21 not the righteous, who are born of God - 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9. Hebrews 10:39 - Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.