Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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The RCC is very morbid in places, with many of its people running rampant into pagan territory, without a spiritual compass (Holy Spirit) to tell them they are going the WRONG WAY.
 
mwc68 said:
So, apparently you have another take on Salvation. I was told by Kenallen that's all i needed to do and I am saved. Romans 10:9
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Again you aren't answering the three questions, why aren't you willing to answer those three questions? They are rather simple.
 
Tankman131 said:
Again you aren't answering the three questions, why aren't you willing to answer those three questions? They are rather simple.
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Answer my question, which i have asked several times now, then i will answer yours. Once again. If once saved always saved, how can a person lose salvation for, say, idolatry?
 
Idolators and the lake of fire

First we are told not to eat with one who calls himself a brother and is an idolator

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous,or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Paul tells them that they were idolators and were washed and not to be deceived that idalators shall not not inherit the kingdom of God

1 Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such were some of you, but by faith we overcome even as he that overcometh shall inherit these things

Rev 21:7 Hethat overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God,and he shall be my son.

Both unbeliving and idolators have their part in the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


I dont know how OSAS would work for an idolator who continued in their idolatries, they could somehow be immune or something, I cant say I know that doctrine
 
DesiredHaven said:
Idolators and the lake of fire

First we are told not to eat with one who calls himself a brother and is an idolator

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous,or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Paul tells them that they were idolators and were washed and not to be deceived that idalators shall not not inherit the kingdom of God

1 Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Such were some of you, but by faith we overcome even as he that overcometh shall inherit these things

Rev 21:7 Hethat overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God,and he shall be my son.

Both unbeliving and idolators have their part in the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


I dont know how OSAS would work for an idolator who continued in their idolatries, they could somehow be immune or something, I cant say I know that doctrine
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But your question is doubting not men but the capability of Jesus Christ.

This is the Father's will Who sent Me, that of ALL whom He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise them up at the Last Day (John6.39).

So you are saying He will lose someone?

He leaves the ninety and nine in the wilderness and goes after that which is lost UNTIL HE FINDS IT (Luke 15.4).

So you are saying that the Good Shepherd fails in His task?

'Who will confirm you (make you strong) to the end that you may be unreproveable in the day of our LORD Jesus Christ, GOD IS FAITHFUL through Whom you were called' (1 Cor 1.8-9).

So God turns out not to be faithful?

'He Who has begun a good work in you will make it complete in the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).

So the Carpenter fails again?

'I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day,' (2 Tim 1.12).


So He isn't able after all?

I can understand a Roman Catholic failing for he is relying on his fallible church. But do you think a Christian can fail whose whole reliance is on Christ?

These promises are unconditional. So you clearly have a poor opinion of Jesus Christ.
 
mwc68 said:
Answer my question, which i have asked several times now, then i will answer yours. Once again. If once saved always saved, how can a person lose salvation for, say, idolatry?
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You have such a false view of salvation. You see it as the result of a combination of your efforts, and the efforts of a failing church. No wonder you are frightened of losing it. The question is whether you even have it. (And I wouldn't mention idolatry if I were you).

But the Bible teaches that salvation is OF THE LORD. Salvation is the consequence of HIS work in the sinner. It is HE Who saves. If you went into hospital for an operation you would not insist on staying awake so that you could help the surgeon out. You would trust yourself in his expert though fallible hands, even though he is fallible. But WE who belong to Christ are in His infallible hands. He is our Saviour. The One Who does the saving. Our part is simply to trust Him to do His work properly. It is not OUR salvation, it is His salvation OF US. If there is any failure it will be on His part.

By God's unmerited love and favour we have been saved, through faith. And it is not of ourselves. it is the gift of GOD, not a consequence of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2.8-9).

You can't understand that because you think that it is your church which saves you. You do not really see Jesus Christ as the One Who saves you. That is where your faith is lacking.
 
I said IF you have done what Romans 10:9 said mwc68 then you have received Salvation. The question now is have you really done what Romans 10:9 said or are you just pretending to have done it?

Either way it does not matter. You cannot lose your Salvation mwc68 but if you keep on sinning willingly, if you keep on practicing sin, God will not allow you to enter into Heaven mwc68. This was the point in Galatians 5:16-25.

Galatians 5:16-25
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has said "I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

This also ties in Matthew 7:21.

Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Is praying to a picture or statue of Mary doing the will of the Father mwc68? Is teaching Mary was without sin doing the will of the Father mwc68?

As long as you practice those sins listed in Galatians 5:16-25 mwc68 even if you have received Salvation God will keep you out of Heaven mwc68.

God does not want us to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and then return to sinning continuously day after day without stopping. This is not what God wants and He will punish us for doing it by keeping us out of Heaven.
 
Jaybird88, we do not try our best to be a Christian. Either you are a Christian or you are not a Christian. We do not become a True Christian by our own efforts!

If you have received Salvation but keep on practicing sin you cannot enter into Heaven.

There are two conditions for entering into Heaven. One is receiving Salvation, the other is to stop sinning willingly.

Now the question is if you have received Salvation why would you want to continue in sin?

God wants us to stop sinning willingly and follow Him. There will be times when we will fail and will sin. When this happens we are to ask Jesus Christ to forgive us of this sin and sin no more. We are not to continue doing this sin day after day after day like the Roman Catholics do.

Once you know that something is a sin and you continue to do it, God then will not allow us to enter into Heaven.

If we turn away from our sins confessing them to Jesus Christ and try not to sin, then God will allow us to enter into Heaven.
 
First of all you do not "do" Romans 10:9. Romans 10:9 is not a rite or a ritual.

No man comes to Christ except the Father draw him.

Mental assent is not the same as Holy Spirit wrought conversion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Can God allow a person to enter into Heaven if they have received Salvation, but keep on sinning willingly day after day mwc68? No.

Is being a True Christian all about accepting Salvation so they can continue in their sins everyday mwc68? No.

Can a person really have accepted Salvation and then believe they can still sin all they want? No.

The problem here is have you really received Salvation mwc68? If a person HAS received Salvation then why would they want to continue in their sins?
 
valiant said:
But your question is doubting not men but the capability of Jesus Christ.

This is the Father's will Who sent Me, that of ALL whom He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise them up at the Last Day (John6.39).

So you are saying He will lose someone?

He leaves the ninety and nine in the wilderness and goes after that which is lost UNTIL HE FINDS IT (Luke 15.4).

So you are saying that the Good Shepherd fails in His task?

'Who will confirm you (make you strong) to the end that you may be unreproveable in the day of our LORD Jesus Christ, GOD IS FAITHFUL through Whom you were called' (1 Cor 1.8-9).

So God turns out not to be faithful?

'He Who has begun a good work in you will make it complete in the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).

So the Carpenter fails again?

'I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day,' (2 Tim 1.12).


So He isn't able after all?

I can understand a Roman Catholic failing for he is relying on his fallible church. But do you think a Christian can fail whose whole reliance is on Christ?

These promises are unconditional. So you clearly have a poor opinion of Jesus Christ.
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Where do those verses put doubt Jesus Christ?
 
KenAllan said:
Can God allow a person to enter into Heaven if they have received Salvation, but keep on sinning willingly day after day mwc68? No.

Is being a True Christian all about accepting Salvation so they can continue in their sins everyday mwc68? No.

Can a person really have accepted Salvation and then believe they can still sin all they want? No.

The problem here is have you really received Salvation mwc68? If a person HAS received Salvation then why would they want to continue in their sins?
Click to expand...
There are many verses contradicting the heresy of OSAS, such as, "remain in me and I will remain in you". This right here suggests salvation is conditional. If OSAS is true, why must we continue to confess our sins? They're covered right? Lots of holes in OSAS
 
If you can lose your Salvation mwc68, then what will cause you to lose your Salvation?

Making Mary your Idol is one way to lose your Salvation mwc68.

Praying to Mary is another way to lose your Salvation mwc68.

Bowing down to a statue of Mary is another way you can lose your Salvation mwc68.

Teaching Mary was without sin is another way you can lose your Salvation mwc68.

James 1:21-22
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

1 Peter 1:13-21
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;
[SUP]18 [/SUP] knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
[SUP]21 [/SUP] who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Galatians 5:16-25
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5 tells us what we are not to do mwc68. We are not to have Idols like Mary. We are not to teach heresies like Mary was without sin mwc68.

Since you believe you can lose your Salvation mwc68 by these verses I have shown you, you have lost your Salvation mwc68.
 
KenAllan said:
If you can lose your Salvation mwc68, then what will cause you to lose your Salvation?

Making Mary your Idol is one way to lose your Salvation mwc68.

Praying to Mary is another way to lose your Salvation mwc68.

Bowing down to a statue of Mary is another way you can lose your Salvation mwc68.

Teaching Mary was without sin is another way you can lose your Salvation mwc68.

James 1:21-22
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

1 Peter 1:13-21
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;
[SUP]18 [/SUP] knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
[SUP]21 [/SUP] who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Galatians 5:16-25
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5 tells us what we are not to do mwc68. We are not to have Idols like Mary. We are not to teach heresies like Mary was without sin mwc68.

Since you believe you can lose your Salvation mwc68 by these verses I have shown you, you have lost your Salvation mwc68.
Click to expand...

You say I'm doing idolatry. I and 1 Billion Catholics disagree
 
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