Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[valiant]

this is just sad and disgraceful. Shame on you

it just happens to be true. The Vatican admitted it and their own culpability in trying to hide it under the carpet.

 

[mwc68]

And the beat goes on! LOL

 

[JesusIsAll]

The issues are obscured in, as if, hollow partisan rhetoric lately. The issue of the Bible believer are those fabricated doctrines of the Roman Catholics in the Catechism, which are added to the word of God, or in very violation of the word of God. Anybody can Google these issues, just enter "Catholic errors" in the input box, really no need to rehash all that, ad nauseam.

The issue is also the bloody history of the bloody Dark Ages, in large part courtesy of Roman Catholic evils, veritable murder and mayhem that your modern Catholic tries to redact from history, blame somebody else, like the vile Catholic governments the Vatican was pulling the strings of, or claim it wasn't that bad. It was that bad! And it was the work of Satan.

What you Catholics need to get straight is the sola scriptura Bible believer knows the truth, the sure and true faith, the gospel of Jesus Christ and the apostles of holy scripture. more than sufficient to save, to grow sanctification, and we don't need you now, or ever. You are peddling nothing we're going to abandon the truth over. The Reformation is done. We have Bibles you can no longer murder us for having, the word of God, and we have a number of Spirit-filled, Bible teaching churches. Get over it.

 

[valiant]

You have no idea, you know nothing about them, and never did. You have built a caricature in your head, based on myth and fantasy, a mental effigy in which you stick pins. You are seemingly are unable to function without something to hate and ridicule, so hate and ridicule you do. And we happened to be there at the time. Historical Anti semitism worked just the same in cartoons. To draw a long nose on a portrait, then mock the long nose that is nowhere except in the imagination of the one who drew it. Go find something else to occupy that clear compulsive/obsessive need of yours. It has nothing to do with religion. Or us.

well I know a lot about Roman Catholicism around the world. And in places like South America, Indonesia and the Philippines it brings nothing but darkness, and keeps people way from our Lord and Saviour. Priests want them to be in darkness because then they can keep control over them. And the worship of Mary is prevalent. Whatever your English catechism says it cannot change that. But I know you are not men enough to admit it.

 

[GoodGnus]

I just have one question for those who find the practices of the RCC repugnant:

If you grew up in a world where your momma, your daddy and everyone you knew were illiterate, and you only had 5% of the bible within a day's walk of where you lived, how would you practice your faith?

 

[mwc68]

well I know a lot about Roman Catholicism around the world. And in places like South America, Indonesia and the Philippines it brings nothing but darkness, and keeps people way from our Lord and Saviour. Priests want them to be in darkness because then they can keep control over them. And the worship of Mary is prevalent. Whatever your English catechism says it cannot change that. But I know you are not men enough to admit it.

Is it possible the church is the only light in the darkness?? Your assertions of the Priests is proposterous. They don't worship Mary. same old lies

 

[mikeuk]

Valiant just read what you write some times, and look in the mirror. You would never speak to someone face to face the way you do.

I know to you this is all a sport in which no holds are barred, but when you disappear from truth it makes nonsense of all you say. It reflects badly on you and nobody else.

I know exactly how research works, and better than you.
I was a postgrad researcher , doing hush hush military stuff, cold hard logic in advanced maths and physicas. Isaw the clear problems in how the scientific process functions, and the reasons why it does not function properly.
The "old boys" club is a part of the problem, the sheer bloody mindedness on the part of the elder statesmen professors who saw their pet theories challenged, and were the peers reviewing the challengers, which is the greatest obstacle to progress as is the "filing cabinet effect" which allows all sorts of errors through. Things you know nothing about. As is the fact that there is neither grant funding for repeated science, nor will any journal publish repeats so the often stated falsehood of the old boys club will believe it "if it is repeated in a peer reviewed journal" is a way of preventing it being accepted and so on.

And so on and so forth.

But you have an attitude problem.

You discount all before even researching it superimposing the "valiant" view on what is really there. Provable. The shroud is a good example. Take the evidence for authenticity of the shroud is overwhelming. The evidence for faking is NONE. And despite all our technology now, nobody can reproduce the mark, nor say how it was produced, although UV lasers are getting similar marks. So who lent one to the faker? So it cannot be faked. It is not a painting or artwork. It is not a photograph. Both provably discountable.

You damn the researchers before even knowin who they are: atheists, even Jewish, who had a vested interest in disproving it not proving it. They were Jet propulsion Laboratory and Los Alamos scientists of the highest reputation. As Barry Shwartz has remarked since "we expected to examine it, see the brush marks, then go home. Yet now, four decades on we still cannot say what it is, we can only tell you what it is not. It is not a painting, a print or a photograph"
as those surviving will tell you, the vatican representatives were present but had no influence!

The ones who behave completely unprofessionally were the daters, and were proven so, when it turns out they dated a later repaired sample, but they did not even check the textile to know it was different from the rest. And instead of taking multiple, they took one and chopped it up. Any credible scientist would be looking to work out why the date they took disagreed with all the other science, not them, they did not even look it.

For you to remark either on the integrity of the science or those who performed it, without even knowing who they are or what they did, proves just how shallow you are.

 

[valiant]

Is it possible the church is the only light in the darkness?? Your assertions of the Priests is proposterous. They don't worship Mary. same old lies

Yes the true church of Jesus Christ is the light in the darkness. The Roman Catholic church which has dominated South America for centuries is the cause of the darkness.

I have already proved to you that they do worship Mary in these places.

1. 1. Delivery Prayer To Mary Hymns Bakti, 1991, No. 52

1. 1. Holy Mary, Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, thou art Queen's noblest. so good you became queen of us all. Show (Tunjukanlah) to us the path to holiness and guide us so as not to get lost.
      Take charge of our mind, so we're just looking for the right.
      We will be over, so we just want good.
      Take charge of our hearts, that we love one another as a brother.
      Overcome ourselves each and all family members.
      Overcome all members of society, every nation and world dignitaries.
      May they strap you into them all in a firm unity.
      Overcome all mankind.
      Open to the path of faith for those who are not familiar with your Son, Jesus.
      Help for all nations to have a united, harmonious and peaceful life.
      Watch over (Naungilah) all mankind, especially the persecuted and hounded.
      They bear it in oppression and enlighten those in darkness, in order to remain faithful to Jesus, your son.
      Present (Hantarlah) all our petition to thy Son, the Maharaja, king of peace, where every prayer of the petition is granted, every load lightened hearts and infirmities healed.
      I hope people who know His power and put hope in Him. occasionally see the royal splendour of thy Son, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit lives and power, now and all time. Amen​
2. 1. Prayer to the Blessed Virgin​
      Most Holy and Immaculate Virgin! O my Mother! Thou who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the advocate, hope, and refuge of sinners! I, the most wretched among them, now come to thee. I worship thee, great Queen, and give thee thanks for the many favors thou hast bestowed on me in the past; most of all do I thank thee for having saved me from hell, which I had so often deserved. I love thee, Lady most worthy of all love, and, by the love which I bear thee, I promise ever in the future to serve thee, and to do what in me lies to win others to thy love. In thee I put all my trust, all my hope of salvation. Receive me as thy servant, and cover me with the mantle of thy protection, thou who art the Mother of mercy! And since thou hast so much power with God, deliver me from all temptations, or at least obtain for me the grace ever to overcome them. From thee I ask a true love of Jesus Christ, and the grace of a happy death. O my Mother! By thy love for God I beseech thee to be at all times my helper, but above all at the last moment of my life. Leave me not until thou seest me safe in heaven, there for endless ages to bless thee and sing thy praises. Such is my hope. Amen.― (Prayer of St. Alphonse Liguori, 3 yrs indulgence,Raccolta, 342) ​
   
   

 

[mikeuk]

well I know a lot about Roman Catholicism around the world. .

You dont even know what it is in the UK, judging by false claims you make about it.

 

[valiant]

You dont even know what it is in the UK, judging by false claims you make about it.

Prove to me that I have made false claims about what it is in the UK. That should not be difficult IF YOU ARE RIGHT.

 

[mikeuk]

Prove to me that I have made false claims about what it is in the UK. That should not be difficult IF YOU ARE RIGHT.

Easily done, but answer the question on the shroud first, sinc it came before, it illustrates your attitude to a tee.
You condemn both the shroud science and those who did it knowing nothing about either. Go check it out and prove you were wrong.

 

[valiant]

Valiant just read what you write some times, and look in the mirror. You would never speak to someone face to face the way you do.

Ditto

I know to you this is all a sport in which no holds are barred, but when you disappear from truth it makes nonsense of all you say. It reflects badly on you and nobody else.

It is no sport. It is a battle against heresy and an heretical sect which claims to be Christian and at heart is NOT.

I know exactly how research works, and better than you.

So you have done research in all major universities? I don't think so!!!!

I was a postgrad researcher , doing hush hush military stuff, cold hard logic in advanced maths and physicas.

Of course LOL I should have realised that you were one of the UK's leading scientists. Silly me LOL Modern physics is not logic, it is surmise. You really don't know what logic is do you?

I saw the clear problems in how the scientific process functions, and the reasons why it does not function properly.

The academic world awaited the rise of Mikeuk LOL. Now it can rest easy.

The "old boys" club is a part of the problem, the sheer bloody mindedness on the part of the elder statesmen professors who saw their pet theories challenged, and were the peers reviewing the challengers, which is the greatest obstacle to progress as is the "filing cabinet effect" which allows all sorts of errors through. Things you know nothing about.

Of course London University was totally in the dark about such misbehaviour. Especially in the field of theology. Why didn't I realise that? Now pull the other one.

As is the fact that there is neither grant funding for repeated science,

Perfectly reasonably grant funding is for new advances.

nor will any journal publish repeats so the often stated falsehood of the old boys club will believe it "if it is repeated in a peer reviewed journal" is a way of preventing it being accepted and so on.

Did they turn your research down? LOL

And so on and so forth.

But you have an attitude problem.

Seems to me that the one who has the attitude problem is YOU.

You discount all before even researching it superimposing the "valiant" view on what is really there. Provable.

No I examine the evidence and who obtained it and presented it. Then I make my decision. Its the scientific method.

The shroud is a good example. Take the evidence for authenticity of the shroud is overwhelming.

if it was overwhelming it would be accepted.

The evidence for faking is NONE.

Apart from carbon dating. which dates it over 1000 years later

And despite all our technology now, nobody can reproduce the mark, nor say how it was produced, although UV lasers are getting similar marks.

So we don't know how it happened.? What difference does that make if it happened 1000 years too late?

So who lent one to the faker? So it cannot be faked. It is not a painting or artwork. It is not a photograph. Both provably discountable.

But it is not that that is in question.

You damn the researchers before even knowin who they are: atheists, even Jewish, who had a vested interest in disproving it not proving it.

One problem with that theory is that the Roman Catholic church has the shroud and could select who performed work on it. Yet they still reached the same conclusion.

They were Jet propulsion Laboratory and Los Alamos scientists of the highest reputation. As Barry Shwartz has remarked since "we expected to examine it, see the brush marks, then go home. Yet now, four decades on we still cannot say what it is, we can only tell you what it is not. It is not a painting, a print or a photograph"

that is not the question . The question is its date. All the Roman Catholic church has to do is put a part of the shroud in the hands of independent experts including genuine Christians. Why is it afraid to do that?

as those surviving will tell you, the vatican representatives were present but had no influence!

So?

The ones who behave completely unprofessionally were the daters, and were proven so, when it turns out they dated a later repaired sample, but they did not even check the textile to know it was different from the rest.

The Roman Catholic church gave the sample to be examined. You mean they messed up?

And instead of taking multiple, they took one and chopped it up.

The Roman Catholic church were reluctant to give a sample in the first place. So don't blame the scientists. This is afterthought.

Any credible scientist would be looking to work out why the date they took disagreed with all the other science, not them, they did not even look it.

But it did not disagree with all the other SCIENCE. It disagreed with your opinion.

For you to remark either on the integrity of the science or those who performed it, without even knowing who they are or what they did, proves just how shallow you are.

Look it makes no difference to me whether the shroud is genuine or not. So why should I take up sides? I simply consider the scientific evidence. But there are so many fakes in the Roman Catholic church that the weight is against them from the start. If it was genuine it could have been proved. You give the impression that the poor Roman Catholic church is helpless and without resources.

 

[notuptome]

As I said to valiant, you can decide if you must you disagree with Augustine as you say

What you cannot do - is what valiant does - to misrepresent Augustine, who indeed believed in succession.

You have a problem however, to explain why such as ignatius pupil of a pupil of an apostle believes in many things you do not, like sacraments and real presence and bishops needed to make them valid, when it is clear that Jesus trusted his church to the apostles to hand down to others. So in order to believe what you do, you also conclude Jesus picked them very badly and cared not about his church if you think he allowed it to apostatize in one generation, indeed it was the descendants of these who selected the canon and weeded out heresies such as Marcions canon, so the canon required inspired nurture of the same people whose views you despise.

To attribute any divine merit to the works of Augustine is unwise. Gods word is truly perfect and without flaw. God has not only spoken His word and by His Holy Spirit moved holy men to write it down for us but God has preserved His word and will do so until all of heaven and earth passes away.

From the beginning of the NT era there have been attacks by satan to corrupt the word of God. The gnostics are but one of the better known groups used to dilute and corrupt the bible.

I will not drink from a contaminated well when the pure water of life is right before me. If you shape your theology around corrupt men you cannot expect to reach the truth. Everything must be viewed through the lens of God word the bible.

No surprise as in the end times men will be given to believe strong delusion. To believe the lie and in so doing to deny that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Men will argue over many things but the word of God is the final arbiter of truth and leads to eternal life because it points to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KenAllan]

Its interesting and sad that the Catholics place so much emphasis on paying attention to Mary. How can the Catholics give 100% of their Heart, Soul, Mind, and Strength to Jesus Christ when they spend their time praising Mary?

Instead of wasting your time with Mary you need to spend that time Worshiping God and studying the Scriptures in the Bible.

2 Timothy 4:1-4
[SUP]1 [/SUP] I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We are to Preach the Word! What is the Word? The Word is the Bible, the Scriptures from God!

We are to rebuke, exhort, convince and teach the Truth in the Scriptures!

We have here in this chat room those who will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; [SUP][/SUP]and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.


Fable-teaching Mary can hear and answer our prayers to her.

Fable-teaching the Lake of Fire is a fairy tale.

There are many fables taught in the Catholic Church. Its a shame on the Catholics for turning away from the Truth to follow fables instead of Jesus Christ.

 

[KenAllan]

Study the Word of God. Spend time in reading and studying the Word of God. For only through our study of the Bible will we be able to see the evil done by many Catholics who try to deceive the very Elect from God.

 

[mikeuk]

Apart from carbon dating. which dates it over 1000 years later

......

in the hands of independent experts including genuine Christians.
.

They were independent experts, you disingenuous halfwit.
You condemn knowing nothing about it.

The date was discredited by real scientists, the problem was the dating was done by people like you - they did not care about truth - they cared about apriori belief, which is why they used an unproven method AMS on wrongly taken samples , ignoring a sample protocol decided years before, did not bring the textile experts back, refused to use a conventional RC cross check, refused to cross check the rest of the science and were found wanting in the end.

No I examine the evidence and who obtained it and presented it. Then I make my decision. Its the scientific metho


........

Hah!
Provably false by your treatment of this and the rest, you don't know where to start even.

 

[valiant]

I would

I just have one question for those who find the practices of the RCC repugnant:

If you grew up in a world where your momma, your daddy and everyone you knew were illiterate, and you only had 5% of the bible within a day's walk of where you lived, how would you practice your faith?

I would make the day's walk regularly, learn the Scriptures by heart, pray to my Father daily, enjoy the working of His[ Holy Spirit and seek to let Christ live through me..


Are you by any chance Roman Catholic?

 

[Jeff_56]

it doesn't matter if you think the rcc is heresy or not.

it is against the rules of this site to promote demonism, buddhism, jw-ism, or catholicism(heresy).

you don't have to agree. that's the rules.(that's what RoboOp and all the admins say and post).

Lets try to communicate the same thought in a loving Christian manner:

This thread is only for those who feel that the RCC is full of heresy, lies and deception. If you choose to deny the heresy or question my authority in the matter, please do not post to this thread.

 

[valiant]

They were independent experts,
You condemn knowing nothing about it.

LOL I am quite well aware of that. It is you who is questioning their results.

The date was discredited by real scientists, the problem was the dating was done by people like you - they did not care about truth - they cared about apriori belief, which is why they used an unproven method AMS on wrongly taken samples , ignoring a sample protocol decided years before, did not bring the textile experts back, refused to use a conventional RC cross check, refused to cross check the rest of the science and were found wanting in the end.

I didn't realise there was a law saying that carbon dating could only be done once. Anyone who thinks that must be a half wit. But you will appear as anything to try to prove your point.

Hah!
Provably false by your treatment of this and the rest, you don't know where to start even.

Try starting with the truth for a change

 

[Jeff_56]

GOD'S WORD answered this long ago.

And those in the last century who have done so, have been delivered, in this life or in the next.

Remember, it is GOD'S WORD, HIS PROMISE, that IF you seek HIM, you will find HIM.
Nora Lam of China did. through impossible "odds" humanly watching.
Martin Luther got saved, in spite of WILLINGLY STUDYING AND LEARNING THE DEMONIC PRACTICES OF THE POPE...... HE STILL GOT SAVED FROM THE DEVIL.(LUTHER gor SAVED by GOD AFTER HE REPENTED and CALLED ON JESUS)

IF you seek flesh/mary/pope/priest/bishop/heresy/abominations, you will find yourself cursed.

IF you repent of your sin, GOD willing, and serve GOD by faith IN JESUS(not mary,not heresy,not demons),
GOD saves you through JESUS (not through anything nor anyone else).

I just have one question for those who find the practices of the RCC repugnant:
If you grew up in a world where your momma, your daddy and everyone you knew were illiterate, and you only had 5% of the bible within a day's walk of where you lived, how would you practice your faith?