"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[AngelFrog]

Let me see if I understand you please..."Sin without the Law is dead"? Uh, my BIBLE says "FAITH without works is DEAD". Nowhere do I read that our sin, without the Law (ten commandments?) is Dead? SIN is dead only because we confess our sins over to HIM as HIS life changing ever flowing BLOOD covers us. And even after being accepted by JESUS, we still sin. This sounds like your opinion only..Can you back this up with Scripture?

Faith without works is dead. However, works do not save us as you know.
Christians do not experience the death unto sin because we have been washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. Jesus eternal atonement for our sins covers us. And if we confess our sins they are remembered no more by God.

The 10 Commandments were not done away with in the new testament. Those are the moral laws of God and they last eternally. When Jesus said: Matthew 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." He wasn't doing away with the 10 Commandments there. Rather those commands of God, those laws of God, are reduced to the precepts Jesus uttered in verses 37 to 39) Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment."And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The 10 Commandments were not done away with in the new testament. Those are the moral laws of God and they last eternally. When Jesus said: Matthew 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." He wasn't doing away with the 10 Commandments there. Rather those commands of God, those laws of God, are reduced to the precepts Jesus uttered in verses 37 to 39) Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment."And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

But unless GOD has done a work in that person, that person would not keep the ten or the two commandments perfectly.
The person may try to keep the ten but they would be brought into captivity to the law of sin which is in their members and GOD would only accept perfection.

 

[valiant]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -John 19:30

My hubby and I were discussing this Scripture last night, and we are in agreement (although we come to it in different ways) that the "it" is the debt that Jesus paid for us all -- the fulfillment of the Law.

So what say you? How would you describe the "it?"

'It' is describing the work that His Father had sent Him to do in offering Himself up on the cross for our sins.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -John 19:30

My hubby and I were discussing this Scripture last night, and we are in agreement (although we come to it in different ways) that the "it" is the debt that Jesus paid for us all -- the fulfillment of the Law.

So what say you? How would you describe the "it?"

Hi santuzza
GOD had mercy on us knowing that sin had dominion because we could not meet his perfect standard of righteousness and in order for us to have a relationship with him a HOLY GOD we would have to be truly in right standing on the inside/spirit so he sent JESUS to show us the truth the way and the life fulfilling GODs perfect standard/the law which no man could fulfill and by JESUS dying on the cross the sin debt was paid and then JESUS before he left earth he graced salvation to all those who believe in the WORD of GOD so sin would not have dominion and we have access to this grace through FAITH.

 

[AngelFrog]

But unless GOD has done a work in that person, that person would not keep the ten or the two commandments perfectly.
The person may try to keep the ten but they would be brought into captivity to the law of sin which is in their members and GOD would only accept perfection.

When a person accepts Jesus as their savior they become a temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then works in that person. Because we are human we are not going to be perfect. Theoretically we could be because the Spirit guides us to the ways of righteousness. But being we are human we don't always in all ways obey that leading.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you have any sources?

Found this as well, may be helpful as well.......

"Yes, τετέλεσται was really stamped on paid bills and debt certificates in the first century. Not all the time was the root τελέω in this same third-person perfect passive form, but from the earliest records, including works of Plato (e.g. Alcibiades), Aristophanes and Xenophon, this verb has been used to refer to the payment of debt or (usually) taxes. In papyri fragments dating from the first century (as well as other centuries) the same verb is used with reference to debt complaints, receipts of payment and tax documents (see "THE OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRI").

Since the word in its passive form means "has been brought to an end," "finished," "paid," and so on, it would not surprise me if this were also hung in prisons when a sentence had been completed, although it would be impossible to really know this for sure, since we don't have any first century prisons with notes hanging on the cell doors with which to test our hypothesis. Was it "debt payment" language, sometimes with connotations of payment of punishment for crimes? Absolutely."

Source:

Also....... "The history of ΤΕΛΟΣ and ΤΕΛΕΩ in ancient Greek" pretty pricey ebook $188.00
The History of ΤΕΛΟΣ and ΤΕΛΕΩ in Ancient Greek (ebook) by Frits M.J. Waanders | 9789027272577

and....... "THE OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRI" POxy Oxyrhynchus Online

You beat me to it. Good post!

 

[popeye]

What none of you realise is that he said it BEFORE he died.
Nothing whatsoever was"finished"
He still had to be buried,decend,take captive the patrirchs,be seen of his family,ascend with his own blood to the Father.

So much of these guesses are nice,and have some overlap,but the core of this event is DIRECTLY tied to the priesthood.

Oh dear,you hit the nerve center ol'e poppy boy

 

[Willie-T]

What none of you realise is that he said it BEFORE he died.
Nothing whatsoever was"finished"
He still had to be buried,decend,take captive the patrirchs,be seen of his family,ascend with his own blood to the Father.

So much of these guesses are nice,and have some overlap,but the core of this event is DIRECTLY tied to the priesthood.

That's why "His mission" was finished. God resurrected Him. (Isaiah 61 defines His mission)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What none of you realise is that he said it BEFORE he died.
Nothing whatsoever was"finished"
He still had to be buried,decend,take captive the patrirchs,be seen of his family,ascend with his own blood to the Father.

So much of these guesses are nice,and have some overlap,but the core of this event is DIRECTLY tied to the priesthood.

John 19:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Seems like Jesus understood better than you did. It was done. He died spiritually on the cross. The paymnet for sin was complete.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh dear,you hit the nerve center ol'e poppy boy

John 19:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

ahh, Poor Popeye! He hit the false nerve.. with a false truth

 

[popeye]

John 19:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

ahh, Poor Popeye! He hit the false nerve.. with a false truth

And yet many things HAD to HAPPEN,before IT was finished.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Hard to sneak up on an ole jungle boy like me

You are hung up on a word and buildd on what you do no know.

Even after the resurrection he still had to deliver his blood to the father.

 

[popeye]

John 19:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Seems like Jesus understood better than you did. It was done. He died spiritually on the cross. The paymnet for sin was complete.

He died spiritually on the cross.

New age?

A spirit can die?
This is really messed up.

 

[PeterJens]

When you build a house, when the last cornerstone is laid the building is complete. Jesus was the cornerstone, the final work of Gods display of his nature, his intentions and his love. Jesus time and again called himself the cornerstone, revelations called him the lamb that was slain. He came on earth to live, to preach, to make friends and finally to die at the hands of the pharisees. The rest is a consequence of his sinless life, his victory over all the challenges and finally death.

 

[PeterJens]

New age?

A spirit can die?
This is really messed up.

Word of Faith preachers, latter rain etc. teach we are all eternal spirits, gods, and Jesus was merely like us, and had to be reborn after spiritual death. This is heresy, avoiding the issue that Jesus is the demonstration of Gods nature, the loving spirit, in human form, conquered sin and all the challenges of life thrown at him, and freely laid down his life before his enemies and forgave them, like he forgives us if we believe he is the Lord.
The reality is these word of Faith preachers do not believe his is the Lord, and therefore deny the whole gospel and its power of love planted and freed in the soul bring eternal life, but that is what Jesus demonstrates.....

 

[mikeuk]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -John 19:30


My hubby and I were discussing this Scripture last night, and we are in agreement (although we come to it in different ways) that the "it" is the debt that Jesus paid for us all -- the fulfillment of the Law.


So what say you? How would you describe the "it?"

One suggested explanation is that the vinegar sponge was the fourth cup of the Passover seder.

 

[popeye]

This is where you guys are messed up. You think the sacrifce of Jesus was complete t the cross. (the altar). But because you lack ANY knowledge of the priestly duties,you do not even realise that the death of the lamb was far from the end of the REQUIREMENT.

This is absurd. The FINISHED work was when the blood had been sprinkled on the mercy seat and the priest emerged from the HOH.
Heb9;11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

It is like a guy mows the back yard and COMPLETES THIS PART and even says to the neighbor on his way to do the front "finished", IMPLYING the back yard ONLY, but you guys go celebrate as if the front does not even exist.

You really think salvation is God's son on a cross and the resurrection and ascention carrying his own blood is a joke? Meaningless?.......due to the fact Jesus said "finished"?

 

[AngelFrog]

What none of you realise is that he said it BEFORE he died.
Nothing whatsoever was"finished"
He still had to be buried,decend,take captive the patrirchs,be seen of his family,ascend with his own blood to the Father.

So much of these guesses are nice,and have some overlap,but the core of this event is DIRECTLY tied to the priesthood.

Oh dear,you hit the nerve center ol'e poppy boy

John 19:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” [SUP]29 [/SUP]Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. [SUP]30 [/SUP]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

ahh, Poor Popeye! He hit the false nerve.. with a false truth

I was thinking he forgot who he was logged in as since he quoted himself so as to give himself, ol'e poppy boy, praise.

 

[popeye]

Word of Faith preachers, latter rain etc. teach we are all eternal spirits, gods, and Jesus was merely like us, and had to be reborn after spiritual death. This is heresy, avoiding the issue that Jesus is the demonstration of Gods nature, the loving spirit, in human form, conquered sin and all the challenges of life thrown at him, and freely laid down his life before his enemies and forgave them, like he forgives us if we believe he is the Lord.
The reality is these word of Faith preachers do not believe his is the Lord, and therefore deny the whole gospel and its power of love planted and freed in the soul bring eternal life, but that is what Jesus demonstrates.....

Better to use the word of God as a template than preachers. Greek bibles are real handy for clarfying the word.

BTW,all men have an eternal spirit . It lives on after death. It is eternal,,but had a beginning,God ,conversely, is also eternal,but had no beginning.

The reality is these word of Faith preachers do not believe his is the Lord, and therefore deny the whole gospel and its power of love planted and freed in the soul bring eternal life, but that is what Jesus demonstrates.....

I believe someone told you this. But you are free to demonise them even if you are wrong. Matters not to me.

 

[popeye]

When you build a house, when the last cornerstone is laid the building is complete. Jesus was the cornerstone, the final work of Gods display of his nature, his intentions and his love. Jesus time and again called himself the cornerstone, revelations called him the lamb that was slain. He came on earth to live, to preach, to make friends and finally to die at the hands of the pharisees. The rest is a consequence of his sinless life, his victory over all the challenges and finally death.

Sad that he died and that was that.
Word on the street is he is alive.

 

[popeye]

I was thinking he forgot who he was logged in as since he quoted himself so as to give himself, ol'e poppy boy, praise.

I did it for me.
Seemed funny at the time.
Glad you got a kick out of it.
God bless