lets talk about gay people!!!

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kaylagrl said:
My father is an evangelist.One night as he was speaking he left his notes and began to preach against homosexuality.Not in a nasty way,simply preaching the Word.We wondered why he derailed his sermon to preach that.After the service a young man came to the alter and said "I didnt know I was doing wrong.I was in a homosexual relationship but tonight I'm giving it up and giving my heart to Christ". So yes,I really believe people dont know what sin is.Especially if you're not raised around church and church people.Just because the church has watered down the truth to make it palatable doesn't mean thats what the disciples did.They weren't afraid to use the word sin.
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thanks for making my point.....When you tell someone..."you are living in SIN.....they wont get that on the surface.....they wont get it by daddy being an evangelist either....he preached the word and the HOly Ghost showed up to the young man and convicted him, I bet if you happened to dig deeper you would find that young man also encountered God's love so powerfully during the message that also moved him....
 
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Messenger_of_Fire said:
Let us be honest with ourselves. If you are watching TV or outside, and an attractive woman walks past, you won't be attracted to her???

Tge only "choice" in it is whether to act upon it or not. My attraction to women wasn't taught to me. I just liked them. The particulars about what I like was taught. Big, small, thick, skinny, etc.
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This I dont understand as far as you might assume others take things or allow themselves to go with it. I know you were speaking to Sirk, but even as a woman there might have been an man whether on TV or in real life that come across my path that was visually appealing (meaning very attractive to me). And that would just be the first 5 second initial thought that come with a glance his way. However, after that you can chose what you will do with that (whether to just say, hey thats a "handsome fella") which he might have been and mind something else rather then making him an object to both look and lust upon. Going beyond what we should do, feeding on fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, but rather deny any such lust to conceive beyond that point. You can find someone beautiful or handsome outward without thinking things you should not be thinking (or rather looking at him/her to lust upon either).

You can turn away from doing this, I know you can. I know what it is (as we probably all know) what it is like to look upon someone we found attractive and think "other things" (wrong things) and allow lust to conceive mindng what we should not, the flesh, and the lust therefof.

Like letting it feed upon you or something, lingering too long over what could lead to desire if you let it build.
 
So recently God jas been giving me this compassion for gay people. He has been leading me to videos, showing me how gay people can feel hopless and lonley in the church. I wanna start a civil discussion on how we can encourage our gay brothers and sisters. I also wanna talk about respectful and kind ways of reaching out to gay people who haven't found Christ.
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I think the key here is not to single out just gays but the broken hearted in general in church. Plenty of people go to church looking for something. They may know they are a sinner. They may know they struggle with things that are wrong and want to change. They go to church hoping for change. Hoping to find someone to talk to who doesn't judge and feel accepted (not accepted in that they want to keep doing what they know is wrong... in the way everyone wants to feel accepted and loved by someone...)

I think if you can remember this verse you will go far:

If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.

The problem is in church, it's hard for those not struggling to see the hidden pain and sorrow of those who are for whatever reason. So they could be sitting right next to you and not even know it. This makes, to that person, the Church seem empty and hopeless. It's hard to open up to someone and say "I need help". It's hard for others who care to notice when these types of people are really good at covering their scars.

So I think the best way is to remember the verse above. Smile, and be polite. Be someone someone sick and thirsty for God would see and think "I wish I could be like this person. I wish I had what this person had. This seems like a person that if we were best friends, I could share anything with and they would be supportive and listen. This seems like someone who just likes people and doesn't judge".

If you are like that, who knows, you could change a persons life and not even know it. Maybe one day they'll be having a really hard time and just out of the blue and come ask you for help or if they can talk. If you are able to get someone to do that, I think you're actions reached them very deep that they felt they could trust you. And even if they don't, they may try to be more like you or change their life for the good because they see it can be done...

I've struggled with same sex attraction, depression, anxiety, suicide... I went to church looking and feeling alone and no one ever noticed. Not their fault though. Church felt like an empty shell... a broken hope. I'd drive home from church crying not knowing what else to do. One day, there was a dude like I described above. I had worked with him for a good long while at work but didn't know him real well. I did see him at my church when I went. He treated people right though and me like a little brother. So one day I asked him for help. Hardest thing I've ever pushed myself to do but best decision of my life. I didn't wanna wine or complain but said, hey this is what I'm dealing with, I wanna change, I wanna be more like you.

Just treat people right... be positive and assured. Don't judge and be respectful. When you're like this people do notice. If they come for you for help, then bring out the bible. If they came up to you like that, they probably greatly care about your opinion. Share it with love, not condemnation.

One last thing I wanna share... same sex attraction (which I prefer to use rather than gay or any kind of label like that) is much more complex than most Christians realize. Sexual attraction in general is complex. People don't choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex. It could be a number of different factors that led this to develop. Most of the guys I've talked to who struggled with same sex attraction had very deep past hurts. Like really deep complex stuff. When dealing with emotions, with anybody... it's incredibly complex.

I read somewhere on this thread a dude posted about he's single but he doesn't know if he could would be able to say no to a dude if the right guy came along. I can completely understand this. It doesn't mean he's ok with it happening or he thinks it's ok, but the emotional factors that would accumulate if such a situation would arise would be so great, he doesn't know if he'd be strong enough to say no. I think he's just being honest and shows what a real struggle ANY kind of emotional struggle can be. I think with any emotional struggle, it can be rewired but it is incredibly hard. Emotions have been shaping in you since birth and to undo and retrain what took you a lifetime to develop in the first place is not an easy task.

That's why I think the verse I posted above is important because people who do love and don't judge and are a beacon of light to those lost in the dark looking for the light... people like them create a new environment for the hurting person. A healthy one that allows them to grow and feel safe knowing if they fall down, someone will be there to pick them back up and won't judge. It can create confidence, hope, etc and rewire their out look on the world. From my experience, good healthy friendships really helped with the same sex attraction. Can't speak for everyone but...




 
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krow said:
Ah then they not held accountable if they are never told? hmmm...if they really do not know as you say.
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Luke 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.




[h=1]Psalm 19:12-13[/h]12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.
 
ISeeYou said:
I dont see the word sinless in scripture,
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The way you misinterpret John's first epistle has you lifting passages out of context to "prove" sinlessness, however. You're simply wrong, primarily because you use a bad translation of the letter.
1 John, NASB
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

Your first error is in believing the KJV when is says "doth not commit." That's a bad translation. It should read as the NASB has it: "practices." The Greek is poieo and is transliterated poieo. It means "to construct, make something for oneself" but it also means, as a passive verb "to be appointed to a position." That's the key meaning here, as it is in the passive voice. That means one who is born of God is not appointed to sin. Of course not! The believer is delivered out of sin! Why? "Because His (Christ's) seed abides in him."

Your second error is failing to follow John's logic in the second half of the verse. He says, in a literal translation from the Greek following "abide", "and no power [to continue in] sin." The word "cannot" in the second half of the NASB rendering is dunamai and, as any good Bible student should know, means "power." This is a clear statement by the apostle that it is Christ's abiding in us that keeps us from sin, not any power within us.

How so? oti ek o qeoß gennao ... "since from this God [we are] born."

You lose. You aren't sinless. You are a heretic for claiming to be. Why? Because you are still in the flesh. At least I assume you are. If you are a spiritual being intruding on human turf via the heavenly Internet, please let me know. I've got a lot of questions.

If being in Christ could make us sinless, we wouldn't have to physically die, shedding our flesh and receiving a new body, a perfect body, when we enter heaven.

You of course have ignored this entire post and will lambast me for daring to say you're a mere man who, though claiming Christ, occasionally strays into the realm of the flesh and must seek forgiveness from Christ. This was for everyone else who isn't self-deluded as are you.
 
ISeeYou said:
This I dont understand as far as you might assume others take things or allow themselves to go with it. I know you were speaking to Sirk, but even as a woman there might have been an man whether on TV or in real life that come across my path that was visually appealing (meaning very attractive to me). And that would just be the first 5 second initial thought that come with a glance his way. However, after that you can chose what you will do with that (whether to just say, hey thats a "handsome fella") which he might have been and mind something else rather then making him an object to both look and lust upon. Going beyond what we should do, feeding on fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, but rather deny any such lust to conceive beyond that point. You can find someone beautiful or handsome outward without thinking things you should not be thinking (or rather looking at him/her to lust upon either).

You can turn away from doing this, I know you can. I know what it is (as we probably all know) what it is like to look upon someone we found attractive and think "other things" (wrong things) and allow lust to conceive mindng what we should not, the flesh, and the lust therefof.

Like letting it feed upon you or something, lingering too long over what could lead to desire if you let it build.
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Lust is another word we are confused by. The point I was making is that even with your significant other, it all started as PHYSICAL. I can't fall in love with her mind, I don't know her. But the "attraction" itself was not taught. When I reached a certain age of maturity, I just liked females. So in viewing my own life examples, there is no such thing as a man who went through what I went through in realizing that I really like girls, but "choosing" have sex with another man.

This don't happen. When a child is born without 5 fingers or toes, one less arm or leg, we don't ostracize the child and tell him he's a sinner because he is not naturally made how a person should be. Why can't we understand the spiritual aspect of this?
 
Viligant_Warrior said:
The way you misinterpret John's first epistle has you lifting passages out of context to "prove" sinlessness, however. You're simply wrong, primarily because you use a bad translation of the letter.
1 John, NASB
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

Your first error is in believing the KJV when is says "doth not commit." That's a bad translation. It should read as the NASB has it: "practices." The Greek is poieo and is transliterated poieo. It means "to construct, make something for oneself" but it also means, as a passive verb "to be appointed to a position." That's the key meaning here, as it is in the passive voice. That means one who is born of God is not appointed to sin. Of course not! The believer is delivered out of sin! Why? "Because His (Christ's) seed abides in him."

Your second error is failing to follow John's logic in the second half of the verse. He says, in a literal translation from the Greek following "abide", "and no power [to continue in] sin." The word "cannot" in the second half of the NASB rendering is dunamai and, as any good Bible student should know, means "power." This is a clear statement by the apostle that it is Christ's abiding in us that keeps us from sin, not any power within us.

How so? oti ek o qeoß gennao ... "since from this God [we are] born."

You lose. You aren't sinless. You are a heretic for claiming to be. Why? Because you are still in the flesh. At least I assume you are. If you are a spiritual being intruding on human turf via the heavenly Internet, please let me know. I've got a lot of questions.

If being in Christ could make us sinless, we wouldn't have to physically die, shedding our flesh and receiving a new body, a perfect body, when we enter heaven.

You of course have ignored this entire post and will lambast me for daring to say you're a mere man who, though claiming Christ, occasionally strays into the realm of the flesh and must seek forgiveness from Christ. This was for everyone else who isn't self-deluded as are you.
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Yeah no one was misrepresenting Johns espitle, I was pulling each text out purposely to show exactly where the verses are pitted against are.

Commit, practice, carry out or perform, dont see the difference, it speaks of those who cannot cease from sin, so you could say, they continue to sin as well, its all word games here

I already stated it was grace, sin cannot have dominion over you under grace

And you are accusing of things I never said, which is why you can only take a quarter of a sentence try to make it like I said all you put onto it.

I have no respect for doing that,
 
Messenger_of_Fire said:
Lust is another word we are confused by.

The point I was making is that even with your significant other, it all started as PHYSICAL.

I can't fall in love with her mind, I don't know her. But the "attraction" itself was not taught. When I reached a certain age of maturity, I just liked females. So in viewing my own life examples, there is no such thing as a man who went through what I went through in realizing that I really like girls, but "choosing" have sex with another man.

This don't happen. When a child is born without 5 fingers or toes, one less arm or leg, we don't ostracize the child and tell him he's a sinner because he is not naturally made how a person should be. Why can't we understand the spiritual aspect of this?
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Theres nothing sinful about being born without apendages, I believe Jesus spoke of cutting some of them off and plucking them out if any would cause you to sin.

For the cause of fornication (which is one of the necessary things we are to abstain from) was the reason Paul speaks of every man having his own wife or husband his own wife.

You can stop putting specifica body parts into other peoples body parts when its wrong I believe. And deal with your lust, says deny our lusts not pamper and okay them.
 
ISeeYou said:
Theres nothing sinful about being born without apendages, I believe Jesus spoke of cutting some of them off and plucking them out if any would cause you to sin.

For the cause of fornication (which is one of the necessary things we are to abstain from) was the reason Paul speaks of every man having his own wife or husband his own wife.

You can stop putting specifica body parts into other peoples body parts when its wrong I believe. And deal with your lust, says deny our lusts not pamper and okay them.
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Again the confusion comes in what marriage is. All people are married. The head of every woman (spirit, faith, wisdom) is the man (physical mankind we can see and the power to act upon thoughts). So when the bible says that when the husband dies, the woman is free to marry another, it is saying that when your sinfulbody dies, your spirit is free to join to another body. All things are pure.
 
Messenger_of_Fire said:
Again the confusion comes in what marriage is. All people are married. The head of every woman (spirit, faith, wisdom) is the man (physical mankind we can see and the power to act upon thoughts). So when the bible says that when the husband dies, the woman is free to marry another, it is saying that when your sinfulbody dies, your spirit is free to join to another body. All things are pure.
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If we're all married then how come i'm still not having sex dangit?
 
Messenger_of_Fire said:
Again the confusion comes in what marriage is. All people are married. The head of every woman (spirit, faith, wisdom) is the man (physical mankind we can see and the power to act upon thoughts). So when the bible says that when the husband dies, the woman is free to marry another, it is saying that when your sinfulbody dies, your spirit is free to join to another body. All things are pure.
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Huh?......
 
Messenger_of_Fire said:
Are you all listening to me? The dust of the earth and the breath of life came together to make you. And what God has put together, let no man rip asunder.
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Yeah, usually when someone barks about 'are you listening to me?' is when i stop listening. I find it an arrogant statement, usually made by people who expect people to just agree with them, no matter what. So you've lost my interest speaking to me like that.
 
That whistling sound you hear is the wind passing through the head unimpeded.

You've been reading Dr. Thumb Bumper and Dr. J. Fluvious Fluffyhead. Yikes!!

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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