THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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Brainfreeze said:
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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Praise God that He sent His Son to die in our place, and take us as His Bride, so that we are co-heirs with Him. We could not ever be heirs, because we all have failed that test. Only Christ is the heir, and we gain the benefits by our marriage to Him.
 
Sophia said:
The Parable of the Sower answers all those questions.
Is this debate about Grace vs Law, or about whether a person can unearn something they never earned in the first place? If the "seed" (the Word of God) is planted in "good soil" (a predestined, chosen, elect, true Believer), then it produces good fruit. When the seed falls upon the other soils (unbelieving hearts), then it may start to grow, but will not persevere.
Why are there warnings for the church? Because there are those in the church who are not in the Body! How many of us grew up in the church, and needed to hear those warnings to convict us that we were fallen, and needed to be saved, even though we thought we were saved already! And how many times have we heard false teachers, and needed those warnings to stay away from their false doctrines.
We are told to not make those judgement calls about their salvation, but to wait for the Last Day when He will seperate the wheat from the tares. (Because we are fallible, and may pull out some wheat along with the tares), but we are to use those warnings as a guide for our own walk, and instruction for those who have deceived themselves into thinking they have Faith, when they are openly displaying faithlessness.

His sheep hear His voice, and follow... and He will not lose a single one of His sheep... which were chosen for Him by the Father before the foundations of the earth were laid.
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Yes I know that parable for it is one of my favorites from the bible, and notice that two of the groups in the Sower and the Seed Parable it says they abided in the Word for a little while until they were deceived or fell away do to hardships in their life. They had faith, but it was not built on a solid foundation so that they could grow in the faith. So trouble, trials, tribulations, and deception from false teaching came in and took away what was sown in them.
 
passinthru said:
So you keep the law Kenneth? Which LAW?
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I will come back with you on a question.

From the two main commandments that Lord Jesus gave us to the 10 commandments, which one of those do you find to be hard to keep ?
 
kennethcadwell said:
Yes I know that parable for it is one of my favorites from the bible, and notice that two of the groups in the Sower and the Seed Parable it says they abided in the Word for a little while until they were deceived or fell away do to hardships in their life. They had faith, but it was not built on a solid foundation so that they could grow in the faith. So trouble, trials, tribulations, and deception from false teaching came in and took away what was sown in them.
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Were they ever saved from hell? Nope. Can't lose something you never had. They were convinced that the Word was true, but had no Faith in it, or they would not have been choked, stomped out, or shriveled. Can the good soil be choked out or trampled? No! He protects His elect.
God is the Potter, and the Creator. His sheep are the good soil that He created.
 
Sophia said:
Praise God that He sent His Son to die in our place, and take us as His Bride, so that we are co-heirs with Him. We could not ever be heirs, because we all have failed that test. Only Christ is the heir, and we gain the benefits by our marriage to Him.
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What does " the bride of Christ " have to do with what I posted ? Do you individually think your marrying Yahshua ?and by failing.. Yes I have, but living through the Holy Spirit and dying to the world I succeed .. No longer a slave to sin.
 
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Sophia said:
Were they ever saved from hell? Nope. Can't lose something you never had. They were convinced that the Word was true, but had no Faith in it, or they would not have been choked, stomped out, or shriveled. Can the good soil be choked out or trampled? No! He protects His elect.
God is the Potter, and the Creator. His sheep are the good soil that He created.
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Well then you see we would have an issue then, because the Sower and the Seed parable says they walked/abided in the Word/Christ for a little while until a trial or tribulation arose in their life, or another came in and deceived them with false teaching that those things caused them to fall. The problem is that some people are teaching that once you are in Christ you are automatically saved. This would mean that you can not be deceived, or have a hardship in your life lead you to fall away from Christ. Yet the Lord in this parable says it happens.
 
Sophia said:
Praise God that He sent His Son to die in our place, and take us as His Bride, so that we are co-heirs with Him. We could not ever be heirs, because we all have failed that test. Only Christ is the heir, and we gain the benefits by our marriage to Him.
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Romans 8:17, "And if children, then heirs: heirs of Yahweh, and joint-heirs with Yahshua, since we suffer with Him, in order that we may also be glorified with Him."

New International Version
Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

New Living Translation
And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God's glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

English Standard Version
and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

New American Standard Bible
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

King James Bible
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
 
Brainfreeze said:
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
 
I'm a joint Heir with Jesus and not Joshua which is what Yahshua means in the english.
 
[h=3]Here is a list of the 10 commandments in short form, tell me which ones you find hard and why you find them hard to follow ?

The 10 Commandments [/h]

  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not make idols.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  5. Honor your father and your mother.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet.
Then here is the main two that our Lord Jesus gave, and tell me how you find these hard to follow ?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.



And remember that Lord Jesus said that when it comes to the commandments, these two are greater then the original 10.
 
Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If God has justified a man he is forever justified and nothing can separate him from Gods love...that sounds "saved" to me....
 
kennethcadwell said:
Here is a list of the 10 commandments in short form, tell me which ones you find hard and why you find them hard to follow ?

The 10 Commandments



  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not make idols.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  5. Honor your father and your mother.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet.
Then here is the main two that our Lord Jesus gave, and tell me how you find these hard to follow ?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.



And remember that Lord Jesus said that when it comes to the commandments, these two are greater then the original 10.
Click to expand...

I will ask again. If it were possible for man to keep them. Then why did Jesus die on the Cross?
 
kennethcadwell said:
I will come back with you on a question.

From the two main commandments that Lord Jesus gave us to the 10 commandments, which one of those do you find to be hard to keep ?
Click to expand...

I love God and I know he loves me more. Loving neighbor as myself can have it's challenges but it is easy if we focus on others and not self. Are there struggles? Yes of course. And from time to time we all slip here and there. Does God condemn us for this? No. However we can feel pretty crummy when we slip here and there. I praise God daily for his grace and his love towards us. We are all on a journey of sorts and sometimes we take a wrong turn here or there but he is faithful as a loving father to his kids. Sheep are not the brightest animal on the planet but they certainly do trust their Shepard. Did this make sense ? :-)
 
kennethcadwell said:
Here is a list of the 10 commandments in short form, tell me which ones you find hard and why you find them hard to follow ?

The 10 Commandments



  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not make idols.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  5. Honor your father and your mother.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet.
Then here is the main two that our Lord Jesus gave, and tell me how you find these hard to follow ?

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.



And remember that Lord Jesus said that when it comes to the commandments, these two are greater then the original 10.
Click to expand...
Do you keep the law? Im assuming your not going to say yes? so why don't you post the biblical standard that you keep and not the one your break?
 
Kerry said:
I will ask again. If it were possible for man to keep them. Then why did Jesus die on the Cross?
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Bottom line we are perfected IN HIM and not by our works. Works are a product of salvation but not a means to obtain salvation.
 
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