THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Hizikyah]

i think the Law and Grace of our God through Jesus Christ our redeemer is undebatetable.. I believe that following the Law is a part of our grace

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well that is all from the bible says, so if you deny what that says then you deny His word.

first you yell at me saying I say you are saying something you are not. then I prove it, and this is all you have to say?

Thanks,, Lack of response proves I was right.

And no the bible does not say what your saying, your interpreting those passages wrong.

It says God, who BEGAN a good work in you (when you were saved and adopted as his child) WILL PERFECT that work until the day of Christ,

you deny the power of God. and his eternal life.

 

[passinthru]

How many here are actually keeping the law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and if you dont breathe you will suffocate...

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

lol.. I don;t breath, God breaths for me..

10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

But hey, if you want to try to live forever, and breath of your own power. I wish ya the best of luck

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i think the Law and Grace of our God through Jesus Christ our redeemer is undebatetable.. I believe that following the Law is a part of our grace

so Gods mercy (grace) is dependent on the law?

then it is not mercy.

You give mercy to those who do not deserve it or can not pay for it. It is not mercy when yuo give to someone who has earned it. it is a wage.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law

This scripture right here shows that some still look at the law in the wrong manner, as they want to make the law out to be bad. What made the law bad is when people try to earn their way into heaven, or be justified by the laws. Then the other thing is how the bible says that the written ordinances were blotted out.
Why were they blotted out, because we under the new covenant do not go by a list of laws, for God's moral laws are placed into our heart by Him so that we should walk in them as an everyday way of life. And not a set of ordinance, laws, or do's and don'ts.

Do to this we preach obedience out of love for Him, yet some try to creep in and tell others we are preaching justification by the law or trying to earn our way in. We absolutely do not teach that, and no matter how hard we try and repeat this to them over and over again. They still try their unchristian tactic's of trying to down grade, false allegations, and coarse talking toward those who do not agree with them. We need to do like Paul and James both said that as Christians we need to learn to bridle our tongues, which I catch my self doing a lot by the guidance of the Holy Spirit saying to me think before you type.
Which is why I come back and ask questions, instead of saying you said something you may not have, and also ask others to please stop saying things that I have not said.

I will leave off with this; Your actions do matter when it comes to salvation, as to be a believer in Jesus you have to be a hearer and a doer.

 

[passinthru]

How many here are actually keeping the law?

Hello hello

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law

yes,

he put his law in our hearts (meaning we will not only trust the law, but obey it)

so how then can we lose salvation, If God WROTE IT IN OUR HEARTS??

do you think you are more powerful than God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hello hello

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

who besides christ can say they have followed the law according to gods standard?

 

[kennethcadwell]

first you yell at me saying I say you are saying something you are not. then I prove it, and this is all you have to say?

Thanks,, Lack of response proves I was right.

And no the bible does not say what your saying, your interpreting those passages wrong.

It says God, who BEGAN a good work in you (when you were saved and adopted as his child) WILL PERFECT that work until the day of Christ,

you deny the power of God. and his eternal life.

First of all I did not yell at you, yelling is when you type stuff out in full caps.
Enlarging and making the words bold is an attempt to emphasis them to be heard. You also did not prove nothing, for you said that I said we have to earn our way into heaven, and that we have to do enough good works to get into heaven. I never said either of those, and that is why I said you are bearing false witness.
You say I am interpreting the scriptures wrong, so I will ask you to answer a few questions.


What does it mean to you when Paul says you have fallen from grace ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says a believer can become impure again from sin ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says to believe in Him you have to be a hearer and a doer, not a hearer only ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says only those who does the Fathers will, will get eternal life ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says those who love Him keep His commandments, those who don't love Him do not keep His commandments ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says to believers that when you sin you will feel Godly sorrow bringing you to repent ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says if you don't forgive others their sins, you will not be forgiven of yours ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says if you deny others help, you have denied Him ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says if a believer gets entangled in willful sin again their ending is worse then your beginning ?


I can post more questions, but I will leave it with these for now and these are all talked about in the bible......

 

[kennethcadwell]

yes,

he put his law in our hearts (meaning we will not only trust the law, but obey it)

so how then can we lose salvation, If God WROTE IT IN OUR HEARTS??

do you think you are more powerful than God?

Now you contradict yourself, for one minute you are sitting here debating that you can not obey the law and now you are saying you will obey it. Which is it with you ? You either obey or you don't obey.

The other thing I will tell you is even though people have the Holy Spirit in them to guide them, God does not take man's free will away. We still have that, which is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes into play. Denying His guidance, which i refuse to do. If He told me to jump up and down 1,000 times today, I would do it.

 

[Kerry]

You cannot and will not keep any law with out your faith being placed in the cross of Christ. There is no other way to live for God. The Pharisee's kept law and Jesus called them a brood of vipers and the blind leading the blind. John the Baptist said " who warned you brood of vipers that you may escape the day of wrath".

If your faith is placed in law keeping you will face the day of wrath. You will be one of those that say's Lord I danced for you and in your name I cast out devils. Jesus will say " depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

 

[Hizikyah]

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law

yes,

he put his law in our hearts (meaning we will not only trust the law, but obey it)

so how then can we lose salvation, If God WROTE IT IN OUR HEARTS??

do you think you are more powerful than God?

(I am not yelling I am speaking from a place of sincerity and firmness)

PLEASE QUIT WITH THE UNFOUNDED FALSE ACCUSATIONS.

A verse is posted with no personal words and you, out of nowhere, make personal accusations.

Stop.

 

[Hizikyah]

You cannot and will not keep any law with out your faith being placed in the cross of Christ. There is no other way to live for God. The Pharisee's kept law and Jesus called them a brood of vipers and the blind leading the blind. John the Baptist said " who warned you brood of vipers that you may escape the day of wrath".

If your faith is placed in law keeping you will face the day of wrath. You will be one of those that say's Lord I danced for you and in your name I cast out devils. Jesus will say " depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

you said, "The Pharisee's kept law"

Scripturaly false, and this falsehood can create an anti-nomian false doctrine.

Matth 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[kennethcadwell]

You cannot and will not keep any law with out your faith being placed in the cross of Christ. There is no other way to live for God. The Pharisee's kept law and Jesus called them a brood of vipers and the blind leading the blind. John the Baptist said " who warned you brood of vipers that you may escape the day of wrath".

If your faith is placed in law keeping you will face the day of wrath. You will be one of those that say's Lord I danced for you and in your name I cast out devils. Jesus will say " depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

The Pharisees did not keep the law, I do not know why that keeps getting taught.
The Pharisees perverted, twisted, and added additional things to the law for others to do. That is why Jesus rebuked them and called them hypocrites, because they were forcing others to do what they themselves did not do. Jesus told the people to do what they say ( for they preached the law ), but do not do what they do ( perverted, and corrupted the law ).


Matthew 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

[Kerry]

How is it possible for man to keep the law?

 

[Brainfreeze]

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

who besides christ can say they have followed the law according to gods standard?

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Sophia]

First of all I did not yell at you, yelling is when you type stuff out in full caps.
Enlarging and making the words bold is an attempt to emphasis them to be heard. You also did not prove nothing, for you said that I said we have to earn our way into heaven, and that we have to do enough good works to get into heaven. I never said either of those, and that is why I said you are bearing false witness.
You say I am interpreting the scriptures wrong, so I will ask you to answer a few questions.


What does it mean to you when Paul says you have fallen from grace ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says a believer can become impure again from sin ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says to believe in Him you have to be a hearer and a doer, not a hearer only ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says only those who does the Fathers will, will get eternal life ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says those who love Him keep His commandments, those who don't love Him do not keep His commandments ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says to believers that when you sin you will feel Godly sorrow bringing you to repent ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says if you don't forgive others their sins, you will not be forgiven of yours ?

What does it mean to you when Jesus says if you deny others help, you have denied Him ?

What does it mean to you when Paul says if a believer gets entangled in willful sin again their ending is worse then your beginning ?


I can post more questions, but I will leave it with these for now and these are all talked about in the bible......

The Parable of the Sower answers all those questions.
Is this debate about Grace vs Law, or about whether a person can unearn something they never earned in the first place? If the "seed" (the Word of God) is planted in "good soil" (a predestined, chosen, elect, true Believer), then it produces good fruit. When the seed falls upon the other soils (unbelieving hearts), then it may start to grow, but will not persevere.
Why are there warnings for the church? Because there are those in the church who are not in the Body! How many of us grew up in the church, and needed to hear those warnings to convict us that we were fallen, and needed to be saved, even though we thought we were saved already! And how many times have we heard false teachers, and needed those warnings to stay away from their false doctrines.
We are told to not make those judgement calls about their salvation, but to wait for the Last Day when He will seperate the wheat from the tares. (Because we are fallible, and may pull out some wheat along with the tares), but we are to use those warnings as a guide for our own walk, and instruction for those who have deceived themselves into thinking they have Faith, when they are openly displaying faithlessness.

His sheep hear His voice, and follow... and He will not lose a single one of His sheep... which were chosen for Him by the Father before the foundations of the earth were laid.

 

[passinthru]

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

who besides christ can say they have followed the law according to gods standard?

Yes,,,my question exactly!!! Interestingly enough very little response . Hmmm

 

[kennethcadwell]

How is it possible for man to keep the law?

Matthew 19:26

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.