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M
Anyone who would judge in their own heart to condemn another person by a standard they Dont not keep themselves has a wicked heart in the eyes of God weep and howl ye hypocrites for ye will not and you cause others to stumble at your hypocrisy... It would have been better for you to have never known the truth than to have used it to destroy others. fear the Lord ye hypocrites for the harlot will inherit and you will haveyour place in the pit.
But you (i.e. Mitspa) and I were called upon to be the light of the world.
You can't stand on your feet and say to the world: "Follow in my steps as I myself follow in Christ's" (1 Cor. 11) when you know your actions can't back you up on that.
Just as you can't live outside the boundaries of the Law (Law of Moses) and expect the world not to judge you. If you don't want me to judge you, I'm more than happy not to do it. As a matter of fact, I already don't judge. Neither you, nor anyone else. However, the world in which we were sent to be the light is very much "judgmental."
We must be the first to abide by every single rule of Ethics and Morality, written or not (by Moses, by Caesar or by the US Congress). Then they will be amazed at us, wondering "How do you do it?" And then only we can give them the secret: Christ Jesus, whom they hated and crucified.
You can't stand on your feet and say to the world: "Follow in my steps as I myself follow in Christ's" (1 Cor. 11) when you know your actions can't back you up on that.
Just as you can't live outside the boundaries of the Law (Law of Moses) and expect the world not to judge you. If you don't want me to judge you, I'm more than happy not to do it. As a matter of fact, I already don't judge. Neither you, nor anyone else. However, the world in which we were sent to be the light is very much "judgmental."
We must be the first to abide by every single rule of Ethics and Morality, written or not (by Moses, by Caesar or by the US Congress). Then they will be amazed at us, wondering "How do you do it?" And then only we can give them the secret: Christ Jesus, whom they hated and crucified.
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M
There is no fear of God for those who judge others by a standard they do not keep.. they break the law of Moses and have no fear ... they break the law of Christ and have no fear ... they are without law and use law only to advance the wicked intentions of their own heart ... They dispise those who are justified in Christ and only seek to destroy the holiness they have in their confidence in Christ. Think not that God does not see these people and will judge them as they have judged others.
M
Gods law is love it always was.. but man was without love and could not see his sin before God.. so commanded man to love through the written code of Moses so that man would see his sin. then God showed us His law when He showed us His Love through His beloved Son. And sent His Spirit to write love upon our hearts.His law....now when we love we keep His law. God is love those who do not know love do not know God.
You already sound very judgmental yourself 
How about we rebuke them instead?
Here's a scenario for you. We both know that the law says we should never commit adultery, but you and I both happen to be guilty. 2 options:
Option 1: We can just dismiss the Law in its entirety and decide; "Actually it's all been paid for. The Law has no power on us since the day we believed in Jesus Christ."
Option 2: Or we can SUFFER the feeling of guilt... let it torture us, but still hang onto the belief that we MUST overcome the sin of adultery. Hang onto that belief and even if we fall down a million times, still hold onto it... up until we either make it and win the war (or until we die from depression or shoot our brains out )
Tell me, which option would you rather we choose?
How about we rebuke them instead?Here's a scenario for you. We both know that the law says we should never commit adultery, but you and I both happen to be guilty. 2 options:
Option 1: We can just dismiss the Law in its entirety and decide; "Actually it's all been paid for. The Law has no power on us since the day we believed in Jesus Christ."
Option 2: Or we can SUFFER the feeling of guilt... let it torture us, but still hang onto the belief that we MUST overcome the sin of adultery. Hang onto that belief and even if we fall down a million times, still hold onto it... up until we either make it and win the war (or until we die from depression or shoot our brains out
)Tell me, which option would you rather we choose?
J
What's interesting is what you're characterizing as some "great debate" I've not seen going on in any Protestant church I've attended my entire life, or heard such a debate between Bible believing Christians, never, and it only seems to be going on in web forums. As I've mentioned before, grace and law matters were settled in the first century church and in New Testament doctrine, so clearly that it's even baby Christian doctrine. Yet it's being argued here.
Why is it some anonymous people online are so confused, seem to know so little of the Christian faith? Why is there this problem one doesn't see in the Christian community at large? There are these issues between Christianity and cults, but, for instance, Christian fundamentalists don't attend cult places of worship. Is it just cults here? They do hide who they are online. But also, do normal, mentally healthy people sit in person and argue against each other all day, every day, repeating the same things over and over, to no end? If you saw people talking this way, engaging in this behavior in person, in real life, day after day, even for an hour, wouldn't you consider them bonkers?
Why is it some anonymous people online are so confused, seem to know so little of the Christian faith? Why is there this problem one doesn't see in the Christian community at large? There are these issues between Christianity and cults, but, for instance, Christian fundamentalists don't attend cult places of worship. Is it just cults here? They do hide who they are online. But also, do normal, mentally healthy people sit in person and argue against each other all day, every day, repeating the same things over and over, to no end? If you saw people talking this way, engaging in this behavior in person, in real life, day after day, even for an hour, wouldn't you consider them bonkers?
M
You already sound very judgmental yourself How about we rebuke them instead?
Here's a scenario for you. We both know that the law says we should never commit adultery, but you and I both happen to be guilty. 2 options:
Option 1: We can just dismiss the Law in its entirety and decide; "Actually it's all been paid for. The Law has no power on us since the day we believed in Jesus Christ."
Option 2: Or we can SUFFER the feeling of guilt... let it torture us, but still hang onto the belief that we MUST overcome the sin of adultery. Hang onto that belief and even if we fall down a million times, still hold onto it... up until we either make it and win the war (or until we die from depression or shoot our brains out )
Tell me, which option would you rather we choose?
How about we rebuke them instead?Here's a scenario for you. We both know that the law says we should never commit adultery, but you and I both happen to be guilty. 2 options:
Option 1: We can just dismiss the Law in its entirety and decide; "Actually it's all been paid for. The Law has no power on us since the day we believed in Jesus Christ."
Option 2: Or we can SUFFER the feeling of guilt... let it torture us, but still hang onto the belief that we MUST overcome the sin of adultery. Hang onto that belief and even if we fall down a million times, still hold onto it... up until we either make it and win the war (or until we die from depression or shoot our brains out
)Tell me, which option would you rather we choose?
I knew you would be here Hiz...now lets try to be nice and honest in this debate...I must say you seem like a nice guy anyway Yes the prophecy is fulfilled of the law upon the heart when we receive the Holy Spirit..."for the law is spiritual" and we fulfill the law through faith and love...not through the letter (written code)
Yes the prophecy is fulfilled of the law upon the heart when we receive the Holy Spirit..."for the law is spiritual" and we fulfill the law through faith and love...not through the letter (written code)
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Very well spoken, very well spoken indeed No one can claim to be keeping with the love in the Law of Christ unless they more than keep the written code of Moses.
As for the latter part, I just wouldn't take the same approach as to use the word "enemies" (enemies of our Faith in Christ). I can feel but "pity" for those who do not know the treasure I have found in Christ, and I do hope... no, actually I know for sure; that a day is coming when 10 men out of all the languages of the nations shall take hold, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, “We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” (Zech. 8: 23)
We are the light of the world, and that lamp will not remain under a bowl for too long. Very soon they shall see our good works, and they will glorify our Father who is in Heaven. (Mat. 5:16)
No one can claim to be keeping with the love in the Law of Christ unless they more than keep the written code of Moses.As for the latter part, I just wouldn't take the same approach as to use the word "enemies" (enemies of our Faith in Christ). I can feel but "pity" for those who do not know the treasure I have found in Christ, and I do hope... no, actually I know for sure; that a day is coming when 10 men out of all the languages of the nations shall take hold, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, “We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” (Zech. 8: 23)
We are the light of the world, and that lamp will not remain under a bowl for too long. Very soon they shall see our good works, and they will glorify our Father who is in Heaven. (Mat. 5:16)
M
I'm not sure if you know much about church history. But this is the debate always has been always will be.. and of course most churches have already closed debate on the truth that's why most are without a candle stick of revelation. Also I find it odd that you are offended at this discussion yet youhad to have your part in the ddiscussion? For which I think you have every right.
would you care to show your scripture for...your lust have been crucified with the law
scripture teaches ....we must... Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
scripture teaches ....we must... Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
it is a normal practice ....people go to church and that is the only time they open their bible...the preacher reads one verse of scripture and talk for over an hour...people believe everything he says without question...they go home forget everything he says until the next time they are ready for a refill....where is the opportunity for debate?....it is here for those who question what their leaders say...and are searching for truth...
J
I'm not sure if you know much about church history. But this is the debate always has been always will be.. and of course most churches have already closed debate on the truth that's why most are without a candle stick of revelation. Also I find it odd that you are offended at this discussion yet youhad to have your part in the ddiscussion? For which I think you have every right.
J
Perhaps put it this way. There are law and grace threads that have already beaten this dead horse to liquid mush. This appears to be the primary topic here. Is it not legitimate that a thinking person may tire of seeing the same things repeated, ad nauseam? The same thread appearing over and over, with different names? Baby Christian doctrine endlessly struggled with and against?