-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N
temple mount isnt even where temple was dimentions wrong was old roman fort.im thinking coin found under cornerstone after 70 ad.a detective from costa mesa california found out alot and the origanal temple was about 12 to 13 acrces in shiloh that makes sence and and archaeologist found in shiloh under ground alot i mean alot where they would tie up animals to bleed out ect look into it..would make sence to where theres no issues to build new temple,,hmmmm
Jer 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Christ is NOT doing that now, He will at His return.
Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
Timeframe: Millennium. No one in their right mind would say that Jerusalem is dwelling safely now or ever has to this point.
Jer 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Wait, what?
Some people believe God, Some don't.
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Christ is NOT doing that now, He will at His return.
Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
Timeframe: Millennium. No one in their right mind would say that Jerusalem is dwelling safely now or ever has to this point.
Jer 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Wait, what?
Some people believe God, Some don't.
So are you saying that the writer of Hebrews GOT IT WRONG when he said this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Hebrews 11
10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. [SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP]First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
So why are they in that temple going BACK TO OFFERING SACRIFICES FOR SIN?
Hebrews 11
10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. [SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP]First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
So why are they in that temple going BACK TO OFFERING SACRIFICES FOR SIN?
"There will NEVER AGAIN be any blood sacrifices that the Lord will ever accept since Jesus died. Jesus died ONCE AND FOR as a sacrifice for sin."
Really .... the sacrificial events of the millennial kingdom will be symbolic and to remind mortal Israel of the nation's past intransigence and need for salvation .... which they will still need to deal with as mortals
Really .... the sacrificial events of the millennial kingdom will be symbolic and to remind mortal Israel of the nation's past intransigence and need for salvation .... which they will still need to deal with as mortals
Last edited:
J
Thank you, John832. It's refreshing for somebody to just acknowledge some basic fact around here, gets so very tiring, people always knee-jerk rejecting truths one has spent many days and long hours studying. (Which points out the futility of trying to have a discussion of anything but grace and works, or water baptism, etc.)
J
Anyway, for somebody out there, some day, I'd like to reiterate the thought you may also find interesting. Many Jews at the time of Christ's second coming never believed in Jesus Christ by faith, faith in His blood. They believe by sight, mourn their error when faced with the truth, the Lord Jesus in Person (Zechariah 12). So, when they learn the fact of the Lord Jesus, they are seeing Christ, having never believed the gospel, never having believed in His blood atonement and been born again. They have never come to Christ as the New Testament faith of Christ commands this is done. Just some food for thought.
Scripture is not broken,Ezekiel 40-48 was designed as a TEST for Israel when they came BACK FROM BABYLON.
Ezekiel 43
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations[SUP][d][/SUP] and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.
They were to build that temple when they returned from exile. It is NOT a temple of the future.
Ezekiel 43
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations[SUP][d][/SUP] and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.
They were to build that temple when they returned from exile. It is NOT a temple of the future.
Why would sacrifices continue to be practiced? The answer comes when one realizes what sacrifices were for in the first place. Were animal sacrifices able to pay for sin? Able to justify? Abel to reconcile men to the Father?...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Sin requires blood...
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Was animal blood EVER able to remit sin?
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Well then, what in the world were they offered for? Just back up one verse...
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Animal sacrifices NEVER remitted sin, they were a bloody reminder of sin and the need for the perfect sacrifice. I am about to quote one of the most misquoted and misrepresented scriptures in the Bible...
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
What is the promise by faith of Jesus Christ? The cancellation of the Law? or is it the cancellation of the debt we all have amassed?
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
What was revealed? the forgiveness of sin by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The Law was a teacher to bring us to Christ. What Law teaches us about sin and the need for remission?
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Sin requires blood...
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Was animal blood EVER able to remit sin?
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Well then, what in the world were they offered for? Just back up one verse...
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Animal sacrifices NEVER remitted sin, they were a bloody reminder of sin and the need for the perfect sacrifice. I am about to quote one of the most misquoted and misrepresented scriptures in the Bible...
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
What is the promise by faith of Jesus Christ? The cancellation of the Law? or is it the cancellation of the debt we all have amassed?
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
What was revealed? the forgiveness of sin by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The Law was a teacher to bring us to Christ. What Law teaches us about sin and the need for remission?
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Let's look at an example...
Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
When does this occur?
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Now unless something very miraculous happened overnight and has yet to be reported, the Dead Sea is STILL DEAD. It has not been healed yet. At the return of Christ, the waters flowing from the Temple in Jerusalem will heal the Dead Sea.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
When does this occur?
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Now unless something very miraculous happened overnight and has yet to be reported, the Dead Sea is STILL DEAD. It has not been healed yet. At the return of Christ, the waters flowing from the Temple in Jerusalem will heal the Dead Sea.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
"Where in Ezekiel does it ever say that the sacrifices ARE SYMBOLIC? Doesn't say that at all. And why God continue through out the old testament to say HE DOES NOT DESIRE the blood of goats,rams and bulls and yet He is going to bring sacrifices back as symbolic? Really?
I am going to get tough with you, who ever you are
People with myopic tunnel vision and short shortsightedness miss much
You look at one thing and toss all of the other related information from scripture into the trash can
You are a scripture picker and your motive is to sell your religion in the process
You are not alone and in the majority .... if that make you feel any better
So your fetish against Israel is your religion .... and I have to tell you that you are barking at the moon
.... and your game of scripture picking simply does not work with me .... I simply know too much Bible
I can see right through your red lettered haze
I am going to get tough with you, who ever you are
People with myopic tunnel vision and short shortsightedness miss much
You look at one thing and toss all of the other related information from scripture into the trash can
You are a scripture picker and your motive is to sell your religion in the process
You are not alone and in the majority .... if that make you feel any better
So your fetish against Israel is your religion .... and I have to tell you that you are barking at the moon
.... and your game of scripture picking simply does not work with me .... I simply know too much Bible
I can see right through your red lettered haze
Another interesting feature of Ezekiel's temple is that it was described as being about 1.75 miles by 1.75 miles in size (42:15-20) - which was about the size of the entire ancient city.
I don't know that this was meant to be an actual building. I think Ezekiel may be saying something else.
I don't know that this was meant to be an actual building. I think Ezekiel may be saying something else.
Last edited: