The "Image" of the Beast

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#41
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#41
MsSpratt said:
but could you please indicate where daniel or revelation mention islam?
thanks (it was about rome and jerusalem/israel). islam didn't exist.
Click to expand...
Certainly, I will go through the details with you and it make take some time and some reading on your part. So be patient.

Firstly, I want you to know that I also thought at one time it was Rome. I was simply adhering to the doctrines I was taught without seeking God on it on my own.

I will be as brief as possible as it took me a deal of time and study to observe what was found.

The first thing I noticed was the description of the 8th king from Revelation (you will note in Daniel that he uses the term king and kingdom universally).

This is what first made me realize that it was not Rome (albeit Rome plays a huge part in things). What I found really didn't change most of what I had learned about Rome's part in things.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

It is written like a riddle. I love riddles and logic puzzles. Let's take a look at it.
So at the time of John that John wrote this, here was the status of world empires:

Fallen... Was: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece
Is: Rome
Is not but must continue a short space:
Was (past tense), is not (was not at the time John wrote this, is of the seven (was one of the others)

So, using the process of elimination you can see from this that the 8th beast must have been one of the five fallen.

I was about to study all 5 of them in order when I saw the hint that is written in the last chapter that Daniel addresses kingdoms.

Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

As you continue to read, you will note that fourth king of Persia is described exactly as the man of perdition and his kingdom exactly as the final antichrist beast kingdom.

So... of the 5 fallen empires, Medo-Persia is the one identified at the end of the book of Daniel.

Take your time to look into all of this. Don't take my word for it. Study it for yourself.

Then look at the four beasts mentioned earlier in Daniel 7 and you will note that the four beasts have 7 heads just like John mentions in Revelation 17. You will observe that the descriptions fit the empires perfectly as well.

This is a short version as to how I have seen it in the scripture. So I hope you see that this is not something I came up with out of supposition; but by studying the holy scriptures.

Also, I believe that all things are written within the scriptures. This includes Islam. If it exists, God knew about it before it was manifested. This last part is just a share of my position when it comes to the scriptures.

One last thing. Understand that I am not telling anyone that they have to believe anything I am sharing here. My only request is that they consider it and seek the Lord on it for them self. I want that to be clear. It is always much more meaningful when a person has heard directly from God on a matter.
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#42
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#42
Markum

I had a similar experience as yours and I can tell you that you are now on the right track

Daniel's 4 kingdom in chapter 7 was not the Roman Empire ... the description does not fit .... neither do the 2 iron legs of the image in chapter 2

In fact this 4th kingdom is different than all of the rest and has never existed yet

The current Middle East setting will eventually produce this kingdom
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#43
#43
If no connection to the Roman Empire, then 'splain this, y'all,

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#44
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#44
The people of the prince that shall come were not the Romans .... but will be the people of the little horn of Daniel's visions

The vision breaks at the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel [the Lord's cutting off]

The remaining 70th week is still pending in which will rise the future little horn and his people

Remember that the Lord uses Israel as an ensign to the other nations of the earth [Isaiah 11]

So time lapse [time stamping] in prophecy is based upon Israel's tracking

The Lord does this same thing in His discourse about the time of the end .... He is looking farther to the 70th week decreed for his people Israel

... 70 AD was not the time of the end that He speaks of and His projection does not include the ancient Roman Empire
 
Last edited:
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#45
#45
Straightshot said:
The people of the prince that shall come were not the Romans .... but will be the people of the little horn of Daniel's visions

The vision breaks at the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel [the Lord's cutting off]

The remaining 70th week is still pending in which will rise the future little horn and his people

Remember that the Lord uses Israel as an ensign to the other nations of the earth [Isaiah 11]

So time lapse [time stamping] in prophecy is based upon Israel's tracking
Click to expand...
Well, our Lord Jesus was cutoff, and the Romans came and destroyed the city and the temple afterwards, as our Lord Jesus also prophesied of the temple. The legs of iron of Nebuchadnezzar's image were also the Roman Empire (which split in two, East and West legs), in the sequence of empires of that vision, a last empire yet to come even of that same iron as Rome, only mixed with clay, not as cohesive an empire: ten toes, ten Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 kings. It all fits like a glove, Bible literally interpreting itself, so I suppose we must agree to disagree.
 
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#46
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#46
JesusIsAll said:
Well, our Lord Jesus was cutoff, and the Romans came and destroyed the city and the temple afterwards, as our Lord Jesus also prophesied of the temple. The legs of iron of Nebuchadnezzar's image were also the Roman Empire (which split in two, East and West legs), in the sequence of empires of that vision, a last empire yet to come even of that same iron as Rome, only mixed with clay, not as cohesive an empire: ten toes, ten Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 kings. It all fits like a glove, Bible literally interpreting itself, so I suppose we must agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
What you say about Rome is true.

However, how can THIS be Rome?

Look...

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

It is impossible.

Now I have answered you.

Now I ask you these questions...

Who has placed a temple upon the mount of God?
Who owns that temple? Who is the "landlord"?
And finally, why would God destroy his own temple?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#47
#47
I've always seen the beast as existing in the future, as remains so to us, at a time when Rome has become "was" and "is not" of verse 11, the beast kingdom the eighth, but, in perfect keeping, of the seven, the one that "is" of John's time in verse 10, revived at the future time of verse 11, and of the seven, Rome exactly so.

As to whatever your temple problems involve, you'll have to find whoever the realtor is, and they can give you information on, if it's rented, the landlord, the builder and owner, etc. You in the market?
 
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#48
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#48
JesusIsAll said:
I've always seen the beast as existing in the future, as remains so to us, at a time when Rome has become "was" and "is not" of verse 11, the beast kingdom the eighth, but, in perfect keeping, of the seven, the one that "is" of John's time in verse 10, revived at the future time of verse 11, and of the seven, Rome exactly so.

As to whatever your temple problems involve, you'll have to find whoever the realtor is, and they can give you information on, if it's rented, the landlord, the builder and owner, etc. You in the market?
Click to expand...


If what you say is true, then John was misinformed. The scripture was not a true statement when he wrote it. How can that be? Is God a liar that he should be mocked?

In the future? Then you do not believe that Jesus' return is soon? Yet if it is soon, and it is, then there would have to be evidence of this empire upon the earth.

How can you not know about the temple mount and what rests there today? If you have studied the scriptures about the times that Jesus said to be watchful of, then you must know. Jesus said to stand in the holy place. Do you not know where that is? Of course if you are basing your beliefs off of what you have learned by heaping together many teachers, then you certainly would not know.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#49
#49
Markum1972 said:


If what you say is true, then John was misinformed. The scripture was not a true statement when he wrote it. How can that be? Is God a liar that he should be mocked?

In the future? Then you do not believe that Jesus' return is soon? Yet if it is soon, and it is, then there would have to be evidence of this empire upon the earth.

How can you not know about the temple mount and what rests there today? If you have studied the scriptures about the times that Jesus said to be watchful of, then you must know. Jesus said to stand in the holy place. Do you not know where that is? Of course if you are basing your beliefs off of what you have learned by heaping together many teachers, then you certainly would not know.
Click to expand...
Honestly? I'm not sure what you're saying, in the first place, to respond. But I know a tad about it all.
 
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#50
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#50
JesusIsAll said:
Honestly? I'm not sure what you're saying, in the first place, to respond. But I know a tad about it all.
Click to expand...
Do not take my word or the word of any other man for it. Look into the matter for yourself. Seek the Lord on it. Do so with the humble heart of a child as if you never learned anything about it.

The great and terrible day of our Lord draws near.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#51
#51
Markum1972 said:
Do not take my word or the word of any other man for it. Look into the matter for yourself. Seek the Lord on it. Do so with the humble heart of a child as if you never learned anything about it.

The great and terrible day of our Lord draws near.
Click to expand...
You talkin' to me? I look at prophecy and this world, and don't have see any concept the end is far away. I don't see how anybody lied in the Bible by a perfectly valid interpretation offered, either. We must not equate disagreeing with our special interpretation as, therefore, involving lies, should we? You're calling a lot of scholars liars, in this case, quite unbecoming.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#52
#52
Blain said:
Because they had an older series of it its on netflix
Click to expand...
Do you mean someone actually had the nerve to remake it? The latest was wayyyy bad enough...
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#53
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#53
JesusIsAll

The iron legs are divided at the onset .... that is why there are 2 [just like there are 2 "arms" of the dual kingdom of Media/Persia which later became the greater Persian "chest"]

The 2 legs are the continuation of the 2 divided thighs before

The 2 thighs, one north and one south of Israel were rival kingdoms ... the northern Seleucid and Egypt [the belly of Alexander's Asian holdings divided into to the 2 thighs]

Neither conquered the other

So will it be at the time of the end, the time appointed after many centuries

... and the little horn of the north will conquer the land of Egypt [Daniel 11:40; 11:42]

Again, Rome is not in the visions of any Bible prophet and there is a reason which I have already given

The reformers and the later reconstruction movements of the "church" inserted the idea of a revived Rome and Euro-centric setting and this does not conform to the visions of the Bible prophets
 
Last edited:
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#54
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#54
JesusIsAll said:
You talkin' to me? I look at prophecy and this world, and don't have see any concept the end is far away. I don't see how anybody lied in the Bible by a perfectly valid interpretation offered, either. We must not equate disagreeing with our special interpretation as, therefore, involving lies, should we? You're calling a lot of scholars liars, in this case, quite unbecoming.
Click to expand...
Please do not bear false witness towards me. I never said those things. John did not lie.

I said that if the Roman empire was not the "one that is" when John wrote this, then it would make that statement a lie to John (simple logic). I then asked how this could be so. It cannot be without making that statement out to be a lie. God forbid. Certainly this is not difficult to see.

There is no special interpretation (2 Peter 1:20). It simply is as it is written.

As for those "scholars" that claim that Rome is the 8th empire, I WILL say that they are in error (that you can quote me on in its entirety); as I have presented to you. If you insist that the scripture does not mean what John said at the time he wrote it, then you would also be following their error. It means exactly what it says; nothing less and nothing more. If you disagree that the scriptures are accurate and true in every regard, then we would then have nothing more to discuss.

To say it is unbecoming to correct "scholars" that are in error, then Jesus was unbecoming when correcting the "scholars" of that time. God forbid. Was it unbecoming of him to call them a brood of vipers? If Jesus stood before the people of today that claim to know him, would they even know him? Or would they be like the "scholars" of that time?

Just some things to consider.
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#55
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#55
My comment with regard to the "beast" that once was, now is not, and will be again

Revelation is a prophecy about the things "hereafter"

After what?

After chapters 1-3 which define the Lord's "church"

The time is coming when the true "church" will be completed

Then the things hereafter will begin to roll ... so the rest of Revelation is about things that have not yet taken place and are still pending

John is taken to heaven to be shown the future events of the 70th week decreed for Israel during the coming tribulation

First he is shown what will be in heaven in chapters 4, 5, and 7:9-17

Then the things of the Lord's tribulation and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... 8; 9; 10; 11; 12; 13; 14; 15; 17; 17; 18; 19

With regard for Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions, here is the rundown

First one must under stand that the "beast" is not human, but a particular fallen angel who does Satan's bidding upon the earth .... Abaddon rules 7 human Middle Eastern kingdoms for the devil [Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 12:12; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

This particular reprobate angel has existed since the beginning when all of the angles including Satan were created

So he must have rebelled along with Satan who managed to draw off 1/3 of the Lord's angels in rebellion against Him [Revelation 12:7-9]

A fallen angel does not die like a human and so lives on until destroyed by the Lord [Revelation 19:20; 20:10]

So Abaddon rules over 7 human Middle Eastern kingdoms and related human king positions for Satan

5 have fallen, 1 exists, and the 7th is next

Abaddon "once was" ruling, now "is not", but will come out of his prison in the abyss to rule again [yet is]

John is shown the time of the end of this present age the "things hereafter"

So in John's day Abaddon "was" not ruling over the Roman Empire, but he once was ruling over his 5th assigned kingdom before this kingdom fell [his "head" [kingdom] wounded] [Revelation 13:3] ... the 5th kingdom was

John sees Abaddon coming out out of the abyss at the beginning of the coming 70th week decreed to take up his influence and rule over his next 6th kingdom .... so this fallen angel "is" again ruling

Abaddon will control the human little horn who will first be seen ruling the 6th smaller kingdom [his "head" [kingdom] healed] .... and this future smaller kingdom will be in the same region of the northern Middle East where his 5th was located .... the Seleucid kingdom of the northern Middle East [Syria/Iraq today]

Then this beast will expand his smaller kingdom to include all of the Middle East including Egypt into the 7th which will be a confederated divided kingdom with 10 other appointed human kings

And when he has reached this setting, he will fully possess the human little horn and become the 8th king himself ruling over His 7th and final kingdom .... the combination of a fallen angel and a human king .... this strange entity is Satan's "antichrist" [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

And he will rule the Middle East for 42 months [the second 1260 days of the 70th week decreed]

Abaddon will possess great supernatural powers far beyond any human invention .... and Satan delegates his power and authority to him

And he will cause great upheaval and massive destruction against the other nation's of the world that will oppose him


.... if allowed to continue upon the earth this angel king of the abyss would destroy all of humanity at the time in one way or another .... even his human followers

But he shall come to his ending in the Lord's lake of fire at Armageddon [Daniel 11:45; Revelation 19:20]
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#56
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#56
My post above was cut off during an edit so some of the scripture references are not there and I cannot now edit

If any have questions about any supporting missing scriptural references which you think should be presented I will respond
 
Last edited:
P

PlainWord

Senior Member
#57
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#57
Markum1972

Markum1972

Senior Member
#58
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#58
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#59
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#59
Markum1972 said:
For years I have considered what the scriptures say about this. Many of us have because the scriptures explicitly say not to receive the mark of the beast.

For the longest time, I thought that the "image" of the beast and the "mark" were the same. However, today I noted that the scriptures do not say that. What scripture does indicate is that they are related to one another.

A few years ago I had heard about a thing called the black stone which is set within a thing called the Kaaba. I knew that God was bringing these things to my attention (but did not know why) so I sought the Lord on it.

What he showed me about the black stone was this:



Isn't it interesting how the description of the black stone is the same as Lucifer's fall? Before even seeing this, God had spoken to me and said that the black stone was a manifestation of Lucifer's fall. Now knowing what Islam says, I can see that clearly.

More...



Note that he even tries to take the place of Jesus. And if that is not enough to show it...



We know that Jesus is truly our expiation (atonement) for sins.

So then, what about this image? Scripture shows us that an image is an idol carved of stone, wood, or metal (or any combination thereof).

So what do the scriptures say about this image of the beast? I will show two main things here:



So we know that the beast itself has a deadly wound that healed (Revelation 13:12), but here it actually says that this stone, wood, and/or metal idol was wounded (damaged) and survived. So I looked to see if things were still lining up and this is what I found:



So finally, Revelation 13 says one more thing about this image of the beast and you might be amazed by the parallel spoken of in the Quran.



The two connections in Revelation, I only discovered today. So far I have found nothing in scripture that eliminates the possibility of the black stone from being the image of the beast. I hope you all enjoyed this and will take these things into consideration in prayer and study.
Click to expand...
To discern the scriptures you have to figure the methods that it uses. Like the 24 Elders, it isn't referring to beings of some sort; it is referring to the 24 Books of the Torah (The Old Testaments). And then you got to look at what is an Elder? Elders correct you, and then you look what the 24 Books are use for, and that is to enlighten and which that is correcting us by looking at others mistake that they had made. And so the Beast isn't referring to being.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#60
#60
Man was created in the image of God. He had a soul and was good, until he sinned. Spiritually speaking, to take on the image of the beast is to become a liar and a cheat. In John 8:44 it says you belong to your father- the devil. When you do bad deeds with your hands, they are 'marked' with sin. Jesus says if your hand causes you to sin cut it off. There may come a day when man will use a physical mark to symbolize loyalty to the beast- just as some use the physical cross today as a sign. But I believe this is talking about your thoughts and actions- symbolized by the hands and forehead. Because in your mind is where sin is conjured-up, and mostly it's your hands that carry it out. I have an example that I'm not proud of. I was between homes and with child, it was my last day I could stay there. Well that very day an apartment opened up. The manager told me that if I do not lie and say that I work full time instead of part time that I will not get this apartment. I tried to talk to her, but she insisted. So I used my hand to sign my signature to that lie. I hate the position she put me in, but it's true, unless you're rich you can't survive in this world without finding a less than honest way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.