J
JesusIsAll
Guest
I was wondering where you went. It's about time, one of the daily bumps of your never ending, repetitive thread, a rear guard up-the-list action, henceforth to be called the "Atwood Maneuver." LOL!
It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
this piece of scripture does not mention save, salvation belief, believing or even faith....according to you it is not about salvation...
Acts 2:37-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
you get nowhwer with your yeast and shoe polish logic
Although this thread is about Eternal Security and while Acts 2:37-39 says nothing whatever against eternal security, someone is not content to debate eternal security, but apparenlty he wants to deny salvation is by faith, as John 3:16 and a host of scripture indicates. Apparently he wants to bring in a human work of water baptism.
It is strange, for this guy sometimes seems to admit that salvation is not by human works, yet harp on works anyway. But now he wants to rehash Acts 2:38.
First he starts by the erroneous claim that I say Acts 2:37-38 has nothing to do with salvation, but I never said that. And he quotes from the dear old King Jimmy.
Now I never said it had nothing to do with salvation. But I do say if you are concerned to know the truth about salvation, give first attention to passages that use those words. (Is that Rocket Science?Then consider justification verses, God's declaration of righteous, which is part of salvation. First observe that there are many verses which offer salvation just for believing, trusting Christ as SAvior -- nothing else required of man. Then take the other verses which some might say has something else added on in the light of all that evidence.
Logic is valid. If we read that the only MUST I DO for salvation is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then believe is in fact the only MUST I DO for it. If you find 1000 times it said that there is but 1 thing to do to obtain something, then you read a few times something else mentioned, it is only logical that the 1000 times single thing is the only essential. Otherwise it would be false advertising.
For example, If a man gets shot in the head, he will die. That being written 1000 times. Then if you also read, "If a man gets shot in the head & then someone spits in his face, he will die" that would also be true. But the spit would not be essential.
I think we have been over Acts 2 enough times on this forum. But it is noted that the question doesn't ask, What must we do to be saved," it is just, "What shall we do" (as he quotes it). There are a great number of things they should do, but only faith is an essential thing on man's part for salvation. This is established from more scripture than can be quoted in one post on this board. And anyone following this thread must have seen it already.
Repent is metanoia, change of mind, from nonbelief to belief in this case. Thus a call to repent (metanoia) is equivalent to a call to believe.
In context, the baptism is the baptism of the Spirit, which is not essential to salvation, but is salvific as it puts one in the Body of Christ. The punctuation he gave is not in the original. I would punctuate it:
Repent (and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus)
for [?] the remission of sins . . . ."
But Spirit baptism is not something that the man is asked to do; it is something that will be done to Him by God the moment the man repents (changes from nonbelief to believe).
The meaning of the preposition which the KJV translation gives as "for" is doubtful. But in any case, Spirit baptism is not a responsibility of the man, it is something God will do to Him once He believes.
Thus the Acts 2:38 passage puts but one responsibility on man for man to do, namely change his mind from unbelief to belief (repent). Spirit baptism is something God does to and for the man, not man's responsibility nor man's doing.
Stick with the plain teaching of the Word of God on salvation.
If anyone has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver, let him repent, and actually trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Why disbelieve that?
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
It is strange, for this guy sometimes seems to admit that salvation is not by human works, yet harp on works anyway. But now he wants to rehash Acts 2:38.
First he starts by the erroneous claim that I say Acts 2:37-38 has nothing to do with salvation, but I never said that. And he quotes from the dear old King Jimmy.
Now I never said it had nothing to do with salvation. But I do say if you are concerned to know the truth about salvation, give first attention to passages that use those words. (Is that Rocket Science?Then consider justification verses, God's declaration of righteous, which is part of salvation. First observe that there are many verses which offer salvation just for believing, trusting Christ as SAvior -- nothing else required of man. Then take the other verses which some might say has something else added on in the light of all that evidence.
Logic is valid. If we read that the only MUST I DO for salvation is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then believe is in fact the only MUST I DO for it. If you find 1000 times it said that there is but 1 thing to do to obtain something, then you read a few times something else mentioned, it is only logical that the 1000 times single thing is the only essential. Otherwise it would be false advertising.
For example, If a man gets shot in the head, he will die. That being written 1000 times. Then if you also read, "If a man gets shot in the head & then someone spits in his face, he will die" that would also be true. But the spit would not be essential.
I think we have been over Acts 2 enough times on this forum. But it is noted that the question doesn't ask, What must we do to be saved," it is just, "What shall we do" (as he quotes it). There are a great number of things they should do, but only faith is an essential thing on man's part for salvation. This is established from more scripture than can be quoted in one post on this board. And anyone following this thread must have seen it already.
Repent is metanoia, change of mind, from nonbelief to belief in this case. Thus a call to repent (metanoia) is equivalent to a call to believe.
In context, the baptism is the baptism of the Spirit, which is not essential to salvation, but is salvific as it puts one in the Body of Christ. The punctuation he gave is not in the original. I would punctuate it:
Repent (and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus)
for [?] the remission of sins . . . ."
But Spirit baptism is not something that the man is asked to do; it is something that will be done to Him by God the moment the man repents (changes from nonbelief to believe).
The meaning of the preposition which the KJV translation gives as "for" is doubtful. But in any case, Spirit baptism is not a responsibility of the man, it is something God will do to Him once He believes.
Thus the Acts 2:38 passage puts but one responsibility on man for man to do, namely change his mind from unbelief to belief (repent). Spirit baptism is something God does to and for the man, not man's responsibility nor man's doing.
Stick with the plain teaching of the Word of God on salvation.
If anyone has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver, let him repent, and actually trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Why disbelieve that?
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Someone was not content to debate Eternal Security, but apparently want to deny that salvation is offered merely for believing/having faith. I admit that the 2 do go together; so again I will post just some of the evidence for salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.
John 3:14-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.
John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 4:1ff
:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.
John 3:14-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.
John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 4:1ff
:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security
After being diverted on another rabbit path, let's get back to the thread of Eternal Security.
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
<
After being diverted on another rabbit path, let's get back to the thread of Eternal Security.
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
<
K
Kerry
Guest
I have a gun to my head, I have accepted Christ, if I pull the trigger am I eternally secure?
C
cfultz3
Guest
Newbirth,
It is an extremity of OSAS. As you can see from his reply, even the following verse would have no meaning to such argument.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Re: Topic Absent from KC's Post = Salvation
Though the topic of this thread is Eternal Security, for some reason it would appear that someone who refuses to trust Christ as Savior is not content with denying eternal security, but also wants to deny that salvation is by faith apart from human works.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
Water baptism is a human work. All good works stem from obeying commandments of God. Thus it is nonsense to claim that water baptism is excluded from the prohibition on claiming that works save on the grounds that the Lord commanded it. Many things are commanded by the Lord (like you shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect), but obeying commandments (good works) done by man do not save. There is an exception. To be saved this commandment must be obeyed: "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved."
Faith, belief, as reiterated time after time in the Bible is the only responsibility of man for salvation, the only MUST I DO.
Now where does the Bible say that a man will not be saved if he is not water baptised? $64,000 for a verse that says lack of water-baptism sends someone to Hell.
It is true that if you believe on the Lord Jesus as your Savior & go to church 5 times, you will be saved. If you believe and pat your dog you will be saved. If you believe and are water baptized you will be saved. But what happens if you believe and do not get water baptized? Where does scripture say that if you just believe you will go to Hell if you don't add in something else? Nowhere.
The end of Mark tell us that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Water is not mentioned. The passage makes good sense as Spirit baptism. Spirit baptism is what Christ specializes in (as compared to John the Baptist). But in any case, what if you believe, but do not get baptized? The second part of the verse says "whoever does not believe will be condemned" (as quoted by the objector). Baptism is left out.
So what is essential for salvation? Over & over it is simply believe/have faith/ trust the Savior. Nowhere is any kind of baptism said to be essential for salvation.
To him who does not work but believes, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
Metanoia (change of mind) is not something different from believing as a responsibility for salvation. The only repentance that saves, the only change of mind that saves is from unbelief to belief, that is from trusting Christ to not trusting Christ. Making human works the cause of salvation, prevents one from trusting Christ as only & sufficient Savior.
It is a waste of time to keep going on about the necessity of works following faith. Indeed works follow faith, but NOT AS THE CAUSE OF SALVATION; do not confuse cause with result. You see to be saved one needs to take the place of the humble sinner who has no good works, yet pleads, "God be merciful to me a sinner."
To claim that everything Christ says to do is essential to salvation is to oppose the Word of God which tells us works do not save. And no one is going to meet those standards of perfection -- they won't even come close, because the unsaved man has no good works; all his works, his alleged righteousnesses are as filthy rags. There is none who does good, no not one.
Scripture on Spirit baptism, see 1 Cor 12:13. See the prophecies of John the Baptist -- Christ baptizes with the Spirit, it is something He does to the believer. The believer is baptized (passive).
Stick with the plain teaching of the Word of God on salvation.
If anyone has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver, let him repent, and actually trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Why disbelieve that?
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Though the topic of this thread is Eternal Security, for some reason it would appear that someone who refuses to trust Christ as Savior is not content with denying eternal security, but also wants to deny that salvation is by faith apart from human works.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
Water baptism is a human work. All good works stem from obeying commandments of God. Thus it is nonsense to claim that water baptism is excluded from the prohibition on claiming that works save on the grounds that the Lord commanded it. Many things are commanded by the Lord (like you shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect), but obeying commandments (good works) done by man do not save. There is an exception. To be saved this commandment must be obeyed: "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved."
Faith, belief, as reiterated time after time in the Bible is the only responsibility of man for salvation, the only MUST I DO.
Now where does the Bible say that a man will not be saved if he is not water baptised? $64,000 for a verse that says lack of water-baptism sends someone to Hell.
It is true that if you believe on the Lord Jesus as your Savior & go to church 5 times, you will be saved. If you believe and pat your dog you will be saved. If you believe and are water baptized you will be saved. But what happens if you believe and do not get water baptized? Where does scripture say that if you just believe you will go to Hell if you don't add in something else? Nowhere.
The end of Mark tell us that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Water is not mentioned. The passage makes good sense as Spirit baptism. Spirit baptism is what Christ specializes in (as compared to John the Baptist). But in any case, what if you believe, but do not get baptized? The second part of the verse says "whoever does not believe will be condemned" (as quoted by the objector). Baptism is left out.
So what is essential for salvation? Over & over it is simply believe/have faith/ trust the Savior. Nowhere is any kind of baptism said to be essential for salvation.
To him who does not work but believes, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
Metanoia (change of mind) is not something different from believing as a responsibility for salvation. The only repentance that saves, the only change of mind that saves is from unbelief to belief, that is from trusting Christ to not trusting Christ. Making human works the cause of salvation, prevents one from trusting Christ as only & sufficient Savior.
It is a waste of time to keep going on about the necessity of works following faith. Indeed works follow faith, but NOT AS THE CAUSE OF SALVATION; do not confuse cause with result. You see to be saved one needs to take the place of the humble sinner who has no good works, yet pleads, "God be merciful to me a sinner."
To claim that everything Christ says to do is essential to salvation is to oppose the Word of God which tells us works do not save. And no one is going to meet those standards of perfection -- they won't even come close, because the unsaved man has no good works; all his works, his alleged righteousnesses are as filthy rags. There is none who does good, no not one.
Scripture on Spirit baptism, see 1 Cor 12:13. See the prophecies of John the Baptist -- Christ baptizes with the Spirit, it is something He does to the believer. The believer is baptized (passive).
Stick with the plain teaching of the Word of God on salvation.
If anyone has dismissed the Savior as a mere chance-giver, let him repent, and actually trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Why disbelieve that?
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
You disbelieve in eternal security, yet you believe that at the moment you are saved. So should you shoot yourself now so you don't lose salvation?
Re: Topic Absent from KC's Post = Salvation
spirit is not mentioned either...water baptism makes sense since he commands his disciples to baptise...and they cannot spirit baptise.....if you believe and do not get baptised?...then what do you believe?? you did not get baptised because you do not believe....it is that simple... you do not believe so you are condenmed....baptism is for those who believe. Those who do not believe will not be baptised.What is the purpose of mentioning baptism if you don't believe?.
spirit is not mentioned either...water baptism makes sense since he commands his disciples to baptise...and they cannot spirit baptise.....if you believe and do not get baptised?...then what do you believe?? you did not get baptised because you do not believe....it is that simple... you do not believe so you are condenmed....baptism is for those who believe. Those who do not believe will not be baptised.What is the purpose of mentioning baptism if you don't believe?.
Re: Will the Old Canards Every Stop Repeating?
"11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: "
"6 And John . . . preached, saying, There cometh after me he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I baptized you in water; but he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit."
"And afterward he was manifested unto the eleven themselves as they sat at meat; and he upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them that had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said to them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." - Mk 16
Acts 1
" 4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: 5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence."
Acts 2
"2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" . . .
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye (and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ) unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ["salvation" not mentioned]
The context favors Spirit Baptism both in Mark 16 & Acts 2.
It is bogus to argue that the baptism of Mark 16 is water baptism on the claim that it was to be done by men, since the baptism of Mark 16 is NOT said to be done by men.
At any rate, you cannot prove that water baptism is meant in those passages. So, you cannot prove anything about water baptism from those passages (no water mentioned). Also, salvation is not by the recipient's works.
But you can prove than a multitude of times salvation is offered merely for believing/having faith/trusting Christ as Savior.
What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
As to Colossians 2, my explanation:
Christ: 9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, 10 and in him ye are made full, who is the head of all principality and power: 11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried/entombed with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
The believer in Christ is Spirit-baptized when he becomes a believer (1 Cor 12:13). This puts him into the ekklesia (Church), the Body of Christ. The believer has been circumcised in that the believer has been put in Christ when Christ was on the cross. Christ suffered circumcision on the cross, the putting off of the flesh when He said, "Father into your hands I commend My Spirit, and Christ left His body.
As believers have been put in Christ, what happened to Christ is communicated to them. When He died, I died, when He rose, I rose, when He seated in the Heavens, I seated in the Heavens, for I have been placed in Christ. (This is called the Mystical Union of the believer with Christ). The believer's Spirit baptism renders these facts certain, as by Spirit baptism believers are place in Christ.
"having been buried/entombed with Him in baptism." Water baptism does not bury a man with Christ, it briefly buries the man in water. It pictures our burial/entombment with Christ which is accomplished by our incorporation into Christ via Spirit baptism. Colossians speaks of Spirit Baptism which incorporates a man in the Body of Christ and results in what happened to Him being communicated to the believer.
ItI
"11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: "
"6 And John . . . preached, saying, There cometh after me he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I baptized you in water; but he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit."
"And afterward he was manifested unto the eleven themselves as they sat at meat; and he upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them that had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said to them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." - Mk 16
Acts 1
" 4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: 5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence."
Acts 2
"2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" . . .
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye (and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ) unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ["salvation" not mentioned]
The context favors Spirit Baptism both in Mark 16 & Acts 2.
It is bogus to argue that the baptism of Mark 16 is water baptism on the claim that it was to be done by men, since the baptism of Mark 16 is NOT said to be done by men.
At any rate, you cannot prove that water baptism is meant in those passages. So, you cannot prove anything about water baptism from those passages (no water mentioned). Also, salvation is not by the recipient's works.
But you can prove than a multitude of times salvation is offered merely for believing/having faith/trusting Christ as Savior.
What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
As to Colossians 2, my explanation:
Christ: 9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, 10 and in him ye are made full, who is the head of all principality and power: 11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried/entombed with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
The believer in Christ is Spirit-baptized when he becomes a believer (1 Cor 12:13). This puts him into the ekklesia (Church), the Body of Christ. The believer has been circumcised in that the believer has been put in Christ when Christ was on the cross. Christ suffered circumcision on the cross, the putting off of the flesh when He said, "Father into your hands I commend My Spirit, and Christ left His body.
As believers have been put in Christ, what happened to Christ is communicated to them. When He died, I died, when He rose, I rose, when He seated in the Heavens, I seated in the Heavens, for I have been placed in Christ. (This is called the Mystical Union of the believer with Christ). The believer's Spirit baptism renders these facts certain, as by Spirit baptism believers are place in Christ.
"having been buried/entombed with Him in baptism." Water baptism does not bury a man with Christ, it briefly buries the man in water. It pictures our burial/entombment with Christ which is accomplished by our incorporation into Christ via Spirit baptism. Colossians speaks of Spirit Baptism which incorporates a man in the Body of Christ and results in what happened to Him being communicated to the believer.
ItI
It is no deception to present the true gospel, which is salvation by grace through faith. What is deception is to try to fool people with passages which are not on salvation and to try to add something to faith, in particular human works.
This is the word of God:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
This is the word of God:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.
Re: Abiding in Christ is Fellowship, not Salvation
It is a bit off subject, but agents of evil would like to distort the gospel of salvation by faith and not works. So though it is a little off subject (Eternal Security)
let's again present a part of the evidence.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved" (Acts 16)
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that
whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life
It is a bit off subject, but agents of evil would like to distort the gospel of salvation by faith and not works. So though it is a little off subject (Eternal Security)
let's again present a part of the evidence.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved" (Acts 16)
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that
whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life
Eternal Security; Once, Saved . . . Saved!
Having endured rabbit paths, let us focus now on the thread topic, that of Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved! The amazing idea that He who is saved is in fact saved (not just given a chance at it).
Ps 34:22
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Rom 8
There is therefore now no condemnation!
Having endured rabbit paths, let us focus now on the thread topic, that of Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved! The amazing idea that He who is saved is in fact saved (not just given a chance at it).
Ps 34:22
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Rom 8
There is therefore now no condemnation!
Re: Abiding in Christ is Fellowship, not Salvation
The thread topic, that of Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved! The amazing idea that He who is saved is in fact saved (not just given a chance at it). Why do some scoff at it?
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
It is finished!
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
The thread topic, that of Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved! The amazing idea that He who is saved is in fact saved (not just given a chance at it). Why do some scoff at it?
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
It is finished!
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
Some would prefer rabbit paths, but Having endured rabbit paths, let us focus now on the thread topic, that of Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved! The amazing idea that He who is saved is in fact saved (not just given a chance at it).
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Whatsamattuh foe yew? You just cain't har'ly believe it? Why how can it be that a man who is saved is actually saved? Donchuknow how ol Noah only had a nail on the outside of the Ark to hol' on to?
Why how preposterous it is,
How postposterous it beez,
How some jist cain't stan' it!
It seems some just can't stand it how Christ saves His people from their sins!
Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved!
Could the security somehow have something to do with the new birth with an incorruptible seed implanted by God, being begotten by God, you just can't be unbegotten. Or does someone have a verse where one once begotten is then unbegotten?
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again
unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and that
fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Why how preposterous it is,
How postposterous it beez,
How some jist cain't stan' it!
It seems some just can't stand it how Christ saves His people from their sins!
Eternal Security, Once Saved . . . Saved!
Could the security somehow have something to do with the new birth with an incorruptible seed implanted by God, being begotten by God, you just can't be unbegotten. Or does someone have a verse where one once begotten is then unbegotten?
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again
unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and that
fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
three posts of cut and paste Atwood...seem like you are no longer confident in your doctrine if man? at the end of the day our faith is in Christ we are baptised into Christ we live unto Christ.we walk as he walked, we are obedient to Christ,we abide in Christ ,we eat Christ we drink Christ, we live Christ...when you hear us you must hear Christ when you see us you must see Christ...that is why we can say we believe Christ...without him we are nothing....why?
Colossians 1:10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Ephesians 4:1
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Colossians 1:10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Ephesians 4:1
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
My confidence is in the Word of God
My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed;
I trust the everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea,
It is enough that Jesus died,
& That He died for me.
Enough for me that Jesus saves,
This ends my fear and doubt;
A sinful soul I come to Him,
He’ll never cast me out.
I know Whom I have believed
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which He has committed
Unto me against that day!
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He
does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed;
I trust the everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea,
It is enough that Jesus died,
& That He died for me.
Enough for me that Jesus saves,
This ends my fear and doubt;
A sinful soul I come to Him,
He’ll never cast me out.
I know Whom I have believed
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which He has committed
Unto me against that day!
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He
does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.