Let me suggest you read through this old thread.
[h=1]Triadic Reality (a discussion between oldhermit and Kenisis)[/h]
[h=1]Triadic Reality (a discussion between oldhermit and Kenisis)[/h]
Jesus is God
- Thread starter sacraig67
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Matthew 1
We are taught in the Word that Jesus Christ made Himself equal with man. This was a matter of will.
We are also taught in the Word that the Child born to us would be called such things as Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father, God Almighty. Some may attempt to speak against Jesus Christ being called these Three, but Isaiah tells us plainely in his writings, 9:6. If anyone wishes to argue this, please do not argue here, for we are to believe Moses and the Prophets for they wrote of Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is Lord, amen.
We are also taught in the Word that the Child born to us would be called such things as Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father, God Almighty. Some may attempt to speak against Jesus Christ being called these Three, but Isaiah tells us plainely in his writings, 9:6. If anyone wishes to argue this, please do not argue here, for we are to believe Moses and the Prophets for they wrote of Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is Lord, amen.
G
Hi all
In South Africa the general consensus is to believe in the trinity doctrine (for reasons not to be discussed on this thread). Only recently did I became aware that there is a large group of people believing that God and Jesus are one and the same. I have some questions for you guys if you don’t mind:
Thank you for your time…
In South Africa the general consensus is to believe in the trinity doctrine (for reasons not to be discussed on this thread). Only recently did I became aware that there is a large group of people believing that God and Jesus are one and the same. I have some questions for you guys if you don’t mind:
- When John baptized Jesus the heaven opened up and they heard a voice saying: “This is my Son is whom I am well pleased”. Is this not an indication that there is a difference between the Father and the Son?
- When reading John 16 you can clearly see that there is Father and Son relationship but very little reason to believe that they are one and the same?
- John17 verses 20-23 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.” Again how do you explain these verses as the reader can clearly see that Jesus is speaking to the Father asking Him to become one with Him and His followers?
Thank you for your time…
OK first for gandalf. Any time we read the Bible we must first pray to the Holy Spirit for insight and understanding. Without His guidance we cannot begin to understand. Begin with John 8:48-59 mainly vs.58 then read ex3:14 and notice two words the same "I am". In John they picked up stones to stone Him because he "expresses the eternity oh his being and his oneness with the father" (from the NIV study Bible notes on John 8:58)
The word, God, is not a personal name given to any one particular being. Satan is the god of this world.
2 Corinthians 4:4whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
There are many gods.
1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords).
People who have authority, to speak and act as God, have the title god.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?
Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.
Jesus is God because His Father gave Him that title and position of authority.
Matthew 28:18A nd Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
If Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth there had to be a time when He didn't have all authority in heaven and on earth.
The Father put Jesus is the position of God to rule over the enemies of God. But in that time, the Father, who is true God, still had the all authority, even over Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
2 Corinthians 4:4whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
There are many gods.
1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords).
People who have authority, to speak and act as God, have the title god.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?
Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.
Jesus is God because His Father gave Him that title and position of authority.
Matthew 28:18A nd Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
If Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth there had to be a time when He didn't have all authority in heaven and on earth.
The Father put Jesus is the position of God to rule over the enemies of God. But in that time, the Father, who is true God, still had the all authority, even over Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
Last edited:
Hi sacraig67,
I am one who does not believe Jesus is God but I do believe he is the son of God. Let us remain civil and discuss this precept upon precept so as we can build a foundation of understanding.
I will start with an easy one.
Jesus is a man and God is not a man.
In 1 Timothy 2:5, We see a difference between God and Jesus. Jesus is shown here to be a man.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Here we see God is a spirit
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Jesus has flesh and bones and spirit does not.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
We have some more going on here then just Jesus is God. God is a spirit and not a man and Jesus is a man of flesh and bones.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man
I am one who does not believe Jesus is God but I do believe he is the son of God. Let us remain civil and discuss this precept upon precept so as we can build a foundation of understanding.
I will start with an easy one.
Jesus is a man and God is not a man.
In 1 Timothy 2:5, We see a difference between God and Jesus. Jesus is shown here to be a man.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Here we see God is a spirit
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Jesus has flesh and bones and spirit does not.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
We have some more going on here then just Jesus is God. God is a spirit and not a man and Jesus is a man of flesh and bones.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man
Many people say that Jesus made us. But is that what Jesus believed and taught?
Matthew 19:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’.
Mark 10:5-6 And Jesus answered and said to them, But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
Matthew 19:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’.
Mark 10:5-6 And Jesus answered and said to them, But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
Earlier translations use the word (it) when describing the word (word) in John 1. When the word became flesh, that's when the Son of God came into being.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and God's power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the Son of God.
For this reason or because of...
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and God's power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the Son of God.
For this reason or because of...
It was God, working through His Spirit, who created the heavens and the earth.
(Psalm 104:30) - You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth.
(Job 26:13) - By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent.
God even created us through His Spirit.
(Job 33:4) - The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Jesus Himself confirms this.
(Matthew 19:4) - And Jesus answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female.”
(Mark 10:5-7) - And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
(Psalm 104:30) - You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth.
(Job 26:13) - By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent.
God even created us through His Spirit.
(Job 33:4) - The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Jesus Himself confirms this.
(Matthew 19:4) - And Jesus answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female.”
(Mark 10:5-7) - And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Since we know God is a Spirit, who is the "him" that John 1 is talking about? Is the "him" a man or a spirit?
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
Is the Word Jesus or is the Word the Spirit of Christ who dwells with in Christ?
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Here we see the Spirit of God descending to Jesus.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works
In John 14:10 We see that the Father(Spirit) dwells inside of Jesus. It is the Father(God) who is speaking through Jesus.
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Once again we see that God who is a spirit has made the world and all things. He dwells in temples not made by man.
So what is God's temple made of if it is not made by man or using hands?
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Jesus and the elect are the temple of God! When Jesus talks it is God talking through him.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Since we know God is a Spirit, who is the "him" that John 1 is talking about? Is the "him" a man or a spirit?
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
Is the Word Jesus or is the Word the Spirit of Christ who dwells with in Christ?
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Here we see the Spirit of God descending to Jesus.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works
In John 14:10 We see that the Father(Spirit) dwells inside of Jesus. It is the Father(God) who is speaking through Jesus.
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Once again we see that God who is a spirit has made the world and all things. He dwells in temples not made by man.
So what is God's temple made of if it is not made by man or using hands?
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Jesus and the elect are the temple of God! When Jesus talks it is God talking through him.