Jesus Christ is not your Lord

[VCO]

You glory in being a sinner but I am called to be a saint. How can you be a sinner (child of the devil ) and saint (child of God) you can't be both choose...

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;


So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. ...

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

You forgot quite few sins: Pride, omitting to give to the needy, omitting to Love as you are loved, omitting help a brother in need, omitting to pray as you should, omitting to be faithful to Church meeting, omitting to submit to every ordinance of man, omitting to pay a full share of taxes, omitting to glorify the Creator Jesus Christ as GOD, etc., etc.

IF you are a son of GOD, when was the last time you heavenly Father spanked you? For what sin?

Hebrews 12:8 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

You claim to follow Paul's teachings, but you unwillingness to admit you are a sinner proves you do not.

Romans 7:14-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, sold into sin’s power.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I discover this principle: When I want to do what is good, evil is with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God’s law.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

Romans 12:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

 

[newbirth]

You forgot quite few sins: Pride, omitting to give to the needy, omitting to Love as you are loved, omitting help a brother in need, omitting to pray as you should, omitting to be faithful to Church meeting, omitting to submit to every ordinance of man, omitting to pay a full share of taxes, omitting to glorify the Creator Jesus Christ as GOD, etc., etc.

IF you are a son of GOD, when was the last time you heavenly Father spanked you? For what sin?

Hebrews 12:8 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

You claim to follow Paul's teachings, but you unwillingness to admit you are a sinner proves you do not.

Romans 7:14-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, sold into sin’s power.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I discover this principle: When I want to do what is good, evil is with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God’s law.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

The law of God supersedes the law of sin

1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:

But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Why do you keep thinking God saves you from sin to keep you in sin?

Romans 12:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

How high do you think you should think of yourself....???
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Well did he save you from sin or not...is he saving you from sin or not ...will you be saved from sin or not...We were purged from our old sins, we are freed from sin, we have power over sin,we have an advocate if we sin, love covers a multitude of sins...Yet you want to hold on to sin...

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[VCO]

Well did he save you from sin or not...is he saving you from sin or not ...will you be saved from sin or not...We were purged from our old sins, we are freed from sin, we have power over sin,we have an advocate if we sin, love covers a multitude of sins...Yet you want to hold on to sin...

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

YES he saved me from my sins, and Positionally I am seen as holy by him. But sanctification of the body is a lifelong struggle, and will not be completed until our resurrection from the dead.


Oh, now you are sounding like the you are justifying sin by white washing it. You even sound like the "let grace abound" bunch, I do not have to deal with sin.

I repeat one last time, you are describing our Positional holiness in which the blood of Christ cleanses our human spirits of sin. BUT OUR BODIES still have sin in them, or we would not die. The wages of sin is death, if Adam had never sinned, he would be alive today. HE seperates us from our sin as far as the east is from the west. THAT IS HOW FORGIVEN of our old sins we really are, but that does not remove the sin curse from Adam, that the flesh has a nature to be selfish, which is SIN. AND each new sin MUST BE CONFESSED, and that is a matter of obedience. A moment of anger and you sin; a slip of tonge with you hit your thumb with a hammer and you sin; one lustful glance at a pretty woman as she walks by and you sin; a momentary thought of coveting anything that your neighbor has and you sin, break the speed limit even by a tiny bit and you sin; fail to come to a complete stop at a stop sign and you sin; fail to do good, no matter how small the task, and you sin; answer your cell phone when driving, when there is an ordinance against it, and you sin; treat one person with preferential treatment, and you sin; park you car illegally for only a few seconds, and you sin; etc., etc.

Sounds to me like you have lowered GOD's standards to something you can do, like the Pharisees, you then claim you are sinless.

 

[mailmandan]

You say you are not righteous...

When did I say that?

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is

righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And?

You don't have a clue of 1Cor 3 try reading NIV...

1 Corinthians 3:11 (NIV) - For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; (reward) he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. The NIV doesn't change what I already explained so apparently it's you who is clueless.

Faith without works is dead so how can a dead faith produce works...what foolishness is this? If your faith is dead it produces nothing ...just like the dead tree.

My point exactly!

If you have no works your faith is dead ... and our righteousness is of faith ....dead faith no righteousness ...simple

Yet works are the fruit of a living faith. Our faith is alive in Christ FIRST by grace through faith then this living faith produces good works. If it's so simple, then why do you teach salvation by works?

you are twisting words ...I did not say genuine believer... This letter is to help believers strive unto perfection...some believers think they can live sinfully and God is OK with that. John is saying ,no, that is not the right way ...this is the right way. People believe in Christ but are sometimes led away into error, are we to conclude they are all unbelievers. If a man refuses to turn from his error when it is pointed out to him it is a different matter. Our ignorance is not an excuse for sin.

What words am I twisting? You said in post #110 that the message is not about description of believers and non believers but to teach us how to live. I showed you the distinction that John made using descriptive language between believers and non-believers in post #114. Nobody is promoting a license to sin.

These are teachings and we should take them as such

Do you believe that "walks in darkness, lies, does not practice the truth/does not practice righteousness, does not love his brother/hates his brother" is descriptive of a child of God?

 

[homwardbound]

I am just glad to know I am identified as one with God, by Christ the Son, which is what all I see is what all are looking for is to be perfect and can never be in our own flesh, we can try hard and some can do better than others but this fact always remains by Christ we are :
[h=1]Colossians 1:22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So if by Christ's death we are presented to Father this way, what is left once we believe Christ did do this for us?
Could it be the new life in Spirit and truth Christ came to give us?, How by the resurrection, not the death?. Yet death was needed first to cleanse us right? to do what move onto the risen Christ in Spirit and truth and just love all God's way right?

 

[newbirth]

YES he saved me from my sins, and Positionally I am seen as holy by him. But sanctification of the body is a lifelong struggle, and will not be completed until our resurrection from the dead.

We are sanctified (set apart for holy use) that is why he said ...But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Oh, now you are sounding like the you are justifying sin by white washing it. You even sound like the "let grace abound" bunch, I do not have to deal with sin.

If God had delivered me from sin and gave me the power to say no to sin. why must I continue in sin? I have to deal with sin like everyone else but I will not be overpowered by it. ....and we have a great promise.....
.No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to humanity. God is faithful, and He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation He will also provide a way of escape so that you are able to bear it.

I repeat one last time, you are describing our Positional holiness in which the blood of Christ cleanses our human spirits of sin. BUT OUR BODIES still have sin in them, or we would not die. The wages of sin is death, if Adam had never sinned, he would be alive today. HE seperates us from our sin as far as the east is from the west. THAT IS HOW FORGIVEN of our old sins we really are, but that does not remove the sin curse from Adam, that the flesh has a nature to be selfish, which is SIN. AND each new sin MUST BE CONFESSED, and that is a matter of obedience. A moment of anger and you sin; a slip of tonge with you hit your thumb with a hammer and you sin; one lustful glance at a pretty woman as she walks by and you sin; a momentary thought of coveting anything that your neighbor has and you sin, break the speed limit even by a tiny bit and you sin; fail to come to a complete stop at a stop sign and you sin; fail to do good, no matter how small the task, and you sin; answer your cell phone when driving, when there is an ordinance against it, and you sin; treat one person with preferential treatment, and you sin; park you car illegally for only a few seconds, and you sin; etc., etc.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]because we know that Christ, having been raised from the dead, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in light of the fact that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in light of the fact that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey[SUP][b][/SUP] its desires. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And do not offer any parts[SUP][c][/SUP] of it to sin as weapons for unrighteousness. But as those who are alive from the dead, offer yourselves to God, and all the parts[SUP][d][/SUP] of yourselves to God as weapons for righteousness. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin will not rule over you, because you are not under law but under grace.

Sounds to me like you have lowered GOD's standards to something you can do, like the Pharisees, you then claim you are sinless.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[newbirth]

I am just glad to know I am identified as one with God, by Christ the Son, which is what all I see is what all are looking for is to be perfect and can never be in our own flesh, we can try hard and some can do better than others but this fact always remains by Christ we are :
Colossians 1:22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So if by Christ's death we are presented to Father this way, what is left once we believe Christ did do this for us?
Could it be the new life in Spirit and truth Christ came to give us?, How by the resurrection, not the death?. Yet death was needed first to cleanse us right? to do what move onto the risen Christ in Spirit and truth and just love all God's way right?

No No No bro......[SUP]23[/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

we are not presented this way yet...it is..... if we continue in the faith and not moved away from the hope of the gospel... don't make it as if we are presented already...

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Its not surprising that new Christians struggle with all the garbage and new age thinking that comes along.

Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He will physically rule the world for 1000 years. He is my Lord and King.

Please quote the text to prove your statement.

 

[newbirth]

When did I say that?

Our actions demonstrate our faith or lack of faith. We are not righteous in of ourselves. Our actions/works reveal the state of our hearts. Actions/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness, though our actions do not merit eternal life.

1 Corinthians 3:11 (NIV) - For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; (reward) he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. The NIV doesn't change what I already explained so apparently it's you who is clueless.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care

Maybe I am but you should read the whole chapter again...

Yet works are the fruit of a living faith. Our faith is alive in Christ FIRST by grace through faith then this living faith produces good works. If it's so simple, then why do you teach salvation by works?

why do you say I teach salvation by works? It is not about Faith producing works ...faith and works go together...faith without works is dead, just like the body without the spirit is dead. The body does not produce spirit. As the spirit brings life to the body so works brings life to your faith.
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

What words am I twisting? You said in post #110 that the message is not about description of believers and non believers but to teach us how to live. I showed you the distinction that John made using descriptive language between believers and non-believers in post #114. Nobody is promoting a license to sin.

yes and then you mentioned genuine believers which would make another group of non genuine believers. Believers do err

Do you believe that "walks in darkness, lies, does not practice the truth/does not practice righteousness, does not love his brother/hates his brother" is descriptive of a child of God?

If a man believes he is serving Christ but he is following a false doctrine in error ,is he not our brother ,didn't Christ die for him also. Should we hate him? The scripture teaches us we are qualified to judge one another in the body not to condemnation but to edify and encourage to follow the way of Christ. Is this not what John is doing.

James wrote this to the church....maybe they were not children of God...
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

 

[VCO]

James wrote this to the church....maybe they were not children of God...
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Correct, they most likely were those on the broad road, that had fallen for a false gospel, and some unbelievers checking out the Church. Either way they are tares among the wheat (false christians - symbolized by those weeds that have the appearance of wheat when they are young) and the reason we tolerate them, is "FAITH comes by Hearing" and thus our LORD is in the business of turning Tares into Wheat.

Matthew 13:27-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
[SUP]28 [/SUP] He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

 

[newbirth]

Correct, they most likely were those on the broad road, that had fallen for a false gospel, and some unbelievers checking out the Church. Either way they are tares among the wheat (false christians - symbolized by those weeds that have the appearance of wheat when they are young) and the reason we tolerate them, is "FAITH comes by Hearing" and thus our LORD is in the business of turning Tares into Wheat.

Matthew 13:27-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
[SUP]28 [/SUP] He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

So Christ did not die for them, You just tolerate them, God showed me mercy when I hated him and turned my back on him. How can I just tolerate anyone who Christ died for? Am I any better than anyone who is rejecting God now? I was once that person and God saved me. Can he not save them also?

 

[VCO]

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

You do not get to pick and choose which verse you believe in, and which you reject. GOD's Word is a package deal you have to accept it all, and a major part of that cleansing hangs on our continued obedience to Confessing each new sin we discover in ourselves:

1 John 1:8-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess {The verb tense implies that part of our WALK in the LIGHT includes this continuous action of confessing on our part because we LOVE HIM.} our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[VCO]

So Christ did not die for them, You just tolerate them, God showed me mercy when I hated him and turned my back on him. How can I just tolerate anyone who Christ died for? Am I any better than anyone who is rejecting God now? I was once that person and God saved me. Can he not save them also?

WRONG, He died for the sins of the WORLD. The only sin everyone goes to hell for, is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit to get one to repent and believe unto receiving HIM as our LORD GOD. The blasphemy is the rejecting of all information about Christ HE has tried to apply to ones HEART.

Matthew 18:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In the same way, it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Romans 1:18-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God {the Creator} is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

 

[newbirth]

You do not get to pick and choose which verse you believe in, and which you reject. GOD's Word is a package deal you have to accept it all, and a major part of that cleansing hangs on our continued obedience to Confessing each new sin we discover in ourselves:

1 John 1:8-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess {The verb tense implies that part of our WALK in the LIGHT includes this continuous action of confessing on our part because we LOVE HIM.} our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[SUP][b][/SUP] sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

if you want to be dogmatic about vs 8 then it makes vs 7 and vs 9 lies ....Vs 8 gives a different meaning when joined to vs 9 as one sentence. It carries the same message as vs6 and 7 so we can conclude vs 8 and 9 is elaborating on vs 6 and 7

If we isolate vs 8 then vs 9 can never be possible . However since we believe Christ died to save us from sin and confession gets us forgiveness of sins it shows the need for continued confession. But that does not alter the fact that we have power to say no to sin.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

 

[mailmandan]

Our actions demonstrate our faith or lack of faith. We are not righteous in of ourselves. Our actions/works reveal the state of our hearts. Actions/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness, though our actions do not merit eternal life.

This has nothing to do me with not saying that I am not righteous.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care

Maybe I am but you should read the whole chapter again...

I read the whole chapter and nothing in it negates verses 11-15.

why do you say I teach salvation by works? It is not about Faith producing works ...faith and works go together...faith without works is dead, just like the body without the spirit is dead. The body does not produce spirit. As the spirit brings life to the body so works brings life to your faith.

You just demonstrated why I say you teach salvation by works. Faith produces works, but you say no. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. Even though our bodies have a spirit and are temporarily alive, we are spiritually dead without the Holy Spirit.

James wrote this to the church....maybe they were not children of God... From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

It's not hard to find unbelievers who claim to have faith but don't mixed in with genuine believers. John is writing to believers, yet in 1 John 2:19, he said - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. ​

 

[newbirth]

This has nothing to do me with not saying that I am not righteous.

Our actions demonstrate our faith or lack of faith. We are not righteous in of ourselves. Our actions/works reveal the state of our hearts. Actions/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness, though our actions do not merit eternal life.

that is your exact quote

I read the whole chapter and nothing in it negates verses 11-15.

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? [SUP]5 [/SUP]What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. (He who plants and he who waters they are who will be rewarded for their own labor)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. ( Paul lays the foundation which is Christ, others(teachers , pastors ect) build on it .

You just demonstrated why I say you teach salvation by works. Faith produces works, but you say no. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works.

The scripture says faith without works is dead not me. I just say what the word says. God gives us faith and he says faith without works is dead. Faith and works are separate, you can have faith without works and you can have works without faith. You have faith have works too and add to your faith virtue,knowledge,temperance,patience,godliness.brotherly kindness and love.

The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. Even though our bodies have a spirit and are temporarily alive, we are spiritually dead without the Holy Spirit.

your explanation does not change what the scripture says...[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It's not hard to find unbelievers who claim to have faith but don't mixed in with genuine believers. John is writing to believers, yet in 1 John 2:19, he said - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. ​

All believers don't have the same faith some have little faith.Some have faith and no works.

Peace brother let God arise and the enemies be scattered.....

 

[homwardbound]

No No No bro......[SUP]23[/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

we are not presented this way yet...it is..... if we continue in the faith and not moved away from the hope of the gospel... don't make it as if we are presented already...

Good for you, I know where I stand and thank you for your view, my conscience is clear, is yours?

 

[VCO]

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[SUP][b][/SUP] sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

if you want to be dogmatic about vs 8 then it makes vs 7 and vs 9 lies ....Vs 8 gives a different meaning when joined to vs 9 as one sentence. It carries the same message as vs6 and 7 so we can conclude vs 8 and 9 is elaborating on vs 6 and 7

If we isolate vs 8 then vs 9 can never be possible . However since we believe Christ died to save us from sin and confession gets us forgiveness of sins it shows the need for continued confession. But that does not alter the fact that we have power to say no to sin.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

You really do not understand the difference between spiritual positional holiness in Christ and physical holiness only obtained in resurrection do you?

Romans 7:17-20 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

New, have you ever at any point in your life come to GOD mourning over your own utter sinfulness? As you see above, even Paul own's up to his sin, even though he knows Christ had paid for his sins. Why don't you confess you are still a sinner?

Psalm 51:17 (ASV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 34:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

Ezekiel 24:23 (NIV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] You will keep your turbans on your heads and your sandals on your feet. You will not mourn or weep but will waste away because of your sins and groan among yourselves.

Isaiah 61:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor, and the day of our God’s vengeance; to comfort all who mourn,

I believe those are talking about mourning over sinfulness, and so is this:

Matthew 5:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.

1 Corinthians 5:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

James 4:8-10 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye doubleminded.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall exalt you.

 

[newbirth]

You really do not understand the difference between spiritual positional holiness in Christ and physical holiness only obtained in resurrection do you?

maybe I don't....Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

[mpaper345]

Jesus said if you do not obey His commandments then you do not love Him.

The Bible says that some people will be before Christ and say did we not do these things in your name,and Christ will say depart from me you workers of iniquity.

The Bible says that they have a form of godliness but deny the power therof,ever learning and never able to come to the truth,and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

So not everybody allows Christ to have authority in their life like they should,but some people that confess Christ still want the flesh to be somewhat in charge.