It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[kennethcadwell]

Because our Lord Jesus said you have to repent or you to will likewise perish.
So it has everything to do with salvation from our Lord.


Now, I repeat my question:

Atwood, do you believe you only have to repent/ask forgiveness of sins once ?

Or do you believe you have to repent/ask forgiveness each time you sin ?

Note how you focus on the wrong thing. The focus is on the Savior & His salvation.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Why are you so concerned about how to repent (change mind), ask forgiveness? What does that have to do with God's promises?

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

Can you bring yourself actually to believe that?

By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. . . .

For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Will You Shuck & Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

which no one has yet supported with scripture. You make these assertions but cannot support them. Scripture is repleat with statements, examples and exhortations of believers to be wary of falling away, some have fallen away in the examples.

Actually it has been proven.

James. Faith produces work. If there is nor work produced, Faith is dead (and not able to save)

John. One who claims to be saved (part of us because of belief) but leaves, and is no against us (does not believe) was never truly of us, If they were truly of us (saved) they never would have left.

Peter -
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [SUP]4 [/SUP]to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Also.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[SUP][a][/SUP] not slumber.

And, As a dog (who did not become a new creature in Christ) he will always return to his true nature (vomit)


Paul. After one has faith, they are sealed with the spirit. who is the GUARANTEE of their salvation carrying them to the day of Christ.

Paul states over and over, "If you have" Proving that many he spoke to were impostors, and not truly saved, Even calling them illigitament and not true children.

Your theology is based on several false teachings. One being the satisfaction theory of atonement, and the other predestination which is the foundation of OSAS. OSAS is an absurd concept in scripture, and only works if you deny what scripture states and hold to predestination/OSAS.

there is no text in all of scripture that says man's faith is guaranteed either by God or man. There is no text that says all believers upon belief, remain faithful to the end. There is just to much scripture to the contrary.

Where is your evidence that a believer, all believers remain faithful to the end.

lol. Many scripture prove it, You have been shown it, Your unwillingness to admit it shows your true heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because our Lord Jesus said you have to repent or you to will likewise perish.
So it has everything to do with salvation from our Lord.


Now, I repeat my question:

Atwood, do you believe you only have to repent/ask forgiveness of sins once ?

Or do you believe you have to repent/ask forgiveness each time you sin ?

how can you repent of the same sin over and over and think it was somehow make your righteous and just.

You just giving yourself a reason to sin, why bother crucifying the flesh, when it is so painful and hard. when all you have to do is confess, say your sorry, and magically your re-forgiven and re-adopted as Gods child.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am waiting for Atwood to answer cause I have a scripture that proves only your present and past sins are covered at repentance, and if a new sin is done you have to repent/ask forgiveness of it .

how can you repent of the same sin over and over and think it was somehow make your righteous and just.

You just giving yourself a reason to sin, why bother crucifying the flesh, when it is so painful and hard. when all you have to do is confess, say your sorry, and magically your re-forgiven and re-adopted as Gods child.

 

[Atwood]

Because our Lord Jesus said you have to repent or you to will likewise perish.
So it has everything to do with salvation from our Lord.
Now, I repeat my question:

Atwood, do you believe you only have to repent/ask forgiveness of sins once ?

Or do you believe you have to repent/ask forgiveness each time you sin ?

Many, many times salvation is offered merely for believing/having faith in the Lord Jesus. There is too much evidence for this forum even to accept it in a single post. For example,
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved."

That being the case, belief/faith can be the only essential to salvation on man's part; though the Lord does many things for our salvation.

Repentance is metanoia = change of mind (not sorrow for sin; not turning over a new leaf). Thus the only repentance which saves is changing the mind from not trusting to trusting the Savior. It could be a change of mind from trusting works, like water baptism to trusting Him as only & sufficient Savior. It could be a change from regarding Christ as a mere "chance-giver" to trusting Him as the Savior who saves His people from their sins.

As to such persons the Lord says "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." He is the author & perfecter of our faith. He who began a good work in you will perfect it/ bring it to completion.

This change from sinner to child of God by new birth, received when one trusts the Savior, is an instantaneous event in the present of a person's life. Later it will be a past event in His life.
This new birth is not repeated.

This has nothing to do with confessing sin in the Christian life, which should be done as soon as possible after a sin.

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:


But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.


In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.


[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

Illustration of the Saved Mentality:

Q Dost thou believe that the Lord Jesus died for thee?
A I believe it.

Q Dost thou thank him for his passion and death?
A I do thank him.

Q Dost thou believe that thou canst not be saved except by his death?
A I believe it.

Come then, while life remaineth in thee: in his death alone place thy whole trust; in naught else place any trust; to his death commit thyself wholly, with this alone cover thyself wholly; and if the Lord thy God will to judge thee, say, ‘Lord, between thy judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; no otherwise can I contend with thee.’ And if he shall say that thou art a sinner, say thou: ‘Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and thee. ‘If he say that thou hast deserved condemnation, say: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and thee, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not.’ If he say that he is wroth with thee, say: ‘Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thy wrath and me. ‘And when thou hast completed this, say again: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thee and me.’

< attributed to Anselm

 

[kennethcadwell]

EG, once again you misuse the 1st John 2:19 scripture.

Read vs. 18, this is referring to people who were forms of the antichrist ( false teachers ). They came in with the purpose to pervert the gospel.

It is not referring to those who accepted Christ, but then turned away do to trials and tribulations they faced in life ( went back to the ways of the world ).

 

[Atwood]

I am waiting for Atwood to answer cause I have a scripture that proves only your present and past sins are covered at repentance, and if a new sin is done you have to repent/ask forgiveness of it .

Kenneth, what a man "has to do" is irrelevant to eternal security. There are many duties that Christians have, done having anything to do with being saved, as salvation is by grace through faith & not of works.

Salvation is about the Lord Jesus saving a wretched sinner like me. He paid for my sins on the cross, and offers me eternal life & never to perish if only I trust Him.

What a Christian should do after he sins has nothing to do with his eternal security. None of my sins were committed when Christ died on the cross. They were all future. Heb 10:

then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed stands day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, [it must cover future sins]sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. [That means that all their sins past, present, & future had to be covered.]
And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said,
This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, saith the Lord:
I will put my laws on their heart,
And upon their mind also will I write them;
then saith he,
And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, once again you misuse the 1st John 2:19 scripture.

Read vs. 18, this is referring to people who were forms of the antichrist ( false teachers ). They came in with the purpose to pervert the gospel.

It is not referring to those who accepted Christ, but then turned away do to trials and tribulations they faced in life ( went back to the ways of the world ).

No. Your wrong.

It John clearly says they were of us, they were a part of the church. WHich means at one time they had to believed in Christ.

And they were antichrist, because they now deny Christ.

as a dog, they always return to their vomit

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am waiting for Atwood to answer cause I have a scripture that proves only your present and past sins are covered at repentance, and if a new sin is done you have to repent/ask forgiveness of it .

lol.. so you admit you excuse your sin. All you have to do is say I am sorry and you can sin all you want.

Thanks for taking the cross and making a mockery of it

 

[Atwood]

EG, once again you misuse the 1st John 2:19 scripture.

Read vs. 18, this is referring to people who were forms of the antichrist ( false teachers ). They came in with the purpose to pervert the gospel.

It is not referring to those who accepted Christ, but then turned away do to trials and tribulations they faced in life ( went back to the ways of the world ).

The passage explains apostates: If they were in the Body of Christ they would have stayed. Departing shows they were never part of the Body of Christ.

What do you have against the free gift of eternal life, Kenneth?

It is yours free if you will repent of consigning Christ to the role of "chance-giver" and trust Him as your Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

No. Your wrong.

It John clearly says they were of us, they were a part of the church. WHich means at one time they had to believed in Christ.

And they were antichrist, because they now deny Christ.

as a dog, they always return to their vomit

???

They went out from us, but they were
not of us [not born again; not real believers, not part of the Body of Christ];
for if they had been of us [Body of Christ], they would have continued with us [Body of Christ]: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us. [Not of the Body of Christ].

This is an explanation of apostates as never saved. And it is also a strong affirmation of eternal security.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Real believers (of us) continue; they endure. First the are "of us" then they continue, endure.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It is better to give a straight simple answer.

We are told to let are yes be yes, and are no be no. Not to cause stumbling blocks to others who maybe listening, who just want to know simply the answer. Not a long drawn out version of your opinions.

Let us see what Peter said:

1st Peter 1:5-10

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.


Notice Peter says only cleansed from old sins, not cleansed from future sins.

Many, many times salvation is offered merely for believing/having faith in the Lord Jesus. There is too much evidence for this forum even to accept it in a single post. For example,
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved."

That being the case, belief/faith can be the only essential to salvation on man's part; though the Lord does many things for our salvation.

Repentance is metanoia = change of mind (not sorrow for sin; not turning over a new leaf). Thus the only repentance which saves is changing the mind from not trusting to trusting the Savior. It could be a change of mind from trusting works, like water baptism to trusting Him as only & sufficient Savior. It could be a change from regarding Christ as a mere "chance-giver" to trusting Him as the Savior who saves His people from their sins.

As to such persons the Lord says "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." He is the author & perfecter of our faith. He who began a good work in you will perfect it/ bring it to completion.

This change from sinner to child of God by new birth, received when one trusts the Savior, is an instantaneous event in the present of a person's life. Later it will be a past event in His life.
This new birth is not repeated.

This has nothing to do with confessing sin in the Christian life, which should be done as soon as possible after a sin.

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:


But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.


In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.


[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

Illustration of the Saved Mentality:

Q Dost thou believe that the Lord Jesus died for thee?
A I believe it.

Q Dost thou thank him for his passion and death?
A I do thank him.

Q Dost thou believe that thou canst not be saved except by his death?
A I believe it.

Come then, while life remaineth in thee: in his death alone place thy whole trust; in naught else place any trust; to his death commit thyself wholly, with this alone cover thyself wholly; and if the Lord thy God will to judge thee, say, ‘Lord, between thy judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; no otherwise can I contend with thee.’ And if he shall say that thou art a sinner, say thou: ‘Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and thee. ‘If he say that thou hast deserved condemnation, say: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and thee, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not.’ If he say that he is wroth with thee, say: ‘Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thy wrath and me. ‘And when thou hast completed this, say again: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thee and me.’

< attributed to Anselm

 

[eternally-gratefull]

???

They went out from us, but they were
not of us [not born again; not real believers, not part of the Body of Christ];
for if they had been of us [Body of Christ], they would have continued with us [Body of Christ]: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us. [Not of the Body of Christ].

This is an explanation of apostates as never saved. And it is also a strong affirmation of eternal security.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Real believers (of us) continue; they endure. First the are "of us" then they continue, endure.

I did not say they were saved,

I said they professed christ. One can not go to church who denies christ, the denial of christ did not come till AFTER they left.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I do not excuse my sins, and I have nothing against eternal life when I receive at Christ return.

Atwood, you and EG make a lot of assumptions towards people like me, and the bible says it is wrong to do that.

And you can not take a scripture that speaks of forms of antichrist ( as it says antichrist in verse 18 ), and say it refers to all who fall from the faith.

The ones that fall do to trials and tribulations they face in life and don't endure through them are not forms of antichrists. They do not pervert or corrupt the gospel as antichrists do, they lose their faith.

The passage explains apostates: If they were in the Body of Christ they would have stayed. Departing shows they were never part of the Body of Christ.

What do you have against the free gift of eternal life, Kenneth?

It is yours free if you will repent of consigning Christ to the role of "chance-giver" and trust Him as your Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

1 john 2:18-19

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they were not of us......................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is better to give a straight simple answer.

We are told to let are yes be yes, and are no be no. Not to cause stumbling blocks to others who maybe listening, who just want to know simply the answer. Not a long drawn out version of your opinions.

Let us see what Peter said:

1st Peter 1:5-10

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.


Notice Peter says only cleansed from old sins, not cleansed from future sins.

yes. lets do what you said. and give a straight simple answer.

make your call and election sure

peter is straightforward. We need to make sure our call and election (salvation) are valid. That our salvation is real. verified. This proves that some were never saved.

and you ignore 1 peter 1 (thanks for making a mistake and putting 1 instead of 2. for you quoted 2 peter 1.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [SUP]4 [/SUP]to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless CONDUCT received by tradition from your fathers, [SUP]19 [/SUP]but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. [SUP]20 [/SUP]He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you [SUP]21 [/SUP]who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Nice try though. 1 peter 1 contradicts your interpretation of 2 peter 1. And proves that Peter is telling us in 2 peter 1 to make sure the election he spoke in 1 peter 1 was valid (real, verified, not fake, not in mind only, but not in application)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not excuse my sins, and I have nothing against eternal life when I receive at Christ return.

I do not either.

And I know I have eternal life. As Jesus promised. I will never die, As jesus promised. I will never hunger and thirst again, As Jesus Promised I will live forever, As Jesus promised. I will not be condemned, As God promised. I will be ressurected by Christ, As jesus promised and paul confirmed. That I have eternal life. As John said, Based on the promise of the one God, (who can not lie) promised before time began.

Your eternal life is based on your work. Not in the work of Christ. That is sad, and not found in scripture. I pray you repent,

Atwood, you and EG make a lot of assumptions towards people like me, and the bible says it is wrong to do that.

There is no assumption when you continually say your eternal life is based on your work.

And you can not take a scripture that speaks of forms of antichrist ( as it says antichrist in verse 18 ), and say it refers to all who fall from the faith.

I never said it did. I said it proves someone who claimes to be saved, then later gives God the finger and does not believe in him any more. was never saved, THEY DID NOT LOSE IT.

Other passages no one lost it due to sin.

The ones that fall do to trials and tribulations they face in life and don't endure through them are not forms of antichrists. They do not pervert or corrupt the gospel as antichrists do, they lose their faith.

Those who lose their faith never had it. They had belief only. James makes this clear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 john 2:18-19

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they were not of us......................

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

these were people who at one time did not deny the son, But actually professed him.

 

[Atwood]

I do not excuse my sins, and I have nothing against eternal life when I receive at Christ return.

Kenneth, how can you be so stubborn as not to admit that the Bible teaches that believers in the Savior (not the "mere chance-giver") have eternal life as a present possession. I posted you the proof positive. As an example, 1 John tells believers that they presently have eternal life -- it is not just an award in the future.

Atwood, you and EG make a lot of assumptions towards people like me, and the bible says it is wrong to do that.

As there is a doctrine of separation in the Bible, it follows that Christians are to determine who seems to be a Christian and who seems not to be.

From all you have posted, it appears to me that you do not trust Christ as Savior, but regard Him as a chance-giver; moreover, you have endorsed salvation by works, like water baptism. I have only good desires for you. If I understand you right, you are much as I used to be, a religious church member who thought he had "accepted Christ." But as I had no assurance of going to Heaven when I died, and as I had been indoctrinated on Mat 25 being the "plan of salvation" (tho not in those terms), I think I understand you. And I see that you do not trust Christ to get you to Heaven; for you it is uncertain and depends on yourself.

I commend you for noticing that antichrist is in context, though the emphasis is plural, antichrists. But when the text says
"if they had been of us, they would have continued with us," that cannot mean that antichrists would have continued. Prophet John is not saying that if the antichrists had been of us (and they could have been), the antichrists would have continued with us. It is obvious that no antichrists were in the Body of Christ. What the text is saying is that true believers continue, and if someone leaves it implies they were never part of the Body of Christ. The antichrists are an example of that.


"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."

And note the strong affirmation of eternal security: "they would have continued."

"The ones that fall do to trials and tribulations they face in life and don't endure through them are not forms of antichrists. They do not pervert or corrupt the gospel as antichrists do, they lose their faith."
[/QUOTE]

Are you aware, Kenneth, that you are making up those last 2 sentences? Is it not scripture there, but you. You have this doctrinal theory on losing salvation; and even if you have no proof, you insist on it. "Losing salvation/eternal life" is not a Bible category.

if they had been of us, they would have continued with us:

That which guarantees the "continue" is not being an antichrist, it is being an "of us," that is, part of the Body of Christ, which is what believers are.]

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Another assumption, I never said you have to earn salvation.

Works out of love do apply.

I did not make a mistake by quoting Peter, he is talking to those in a saved state. And he clearly says old sins, not future. And when put with other scriptures in the bible it shows that you must repent/ask for forgiveness of your sins when you commit them.

It says if you do not repent you will not be pure.

I do not deny believing in Christ to be saved.

What gets me is why when I put a scripture out there where either Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, John, or any other apostle says what you must do to be saved. You and Atwood deny it, say it doesn't apply when it does, or refuse to even see what it says.

Out of love I am trying to show you the truth, and I pray to God through our Lord Jesus Christ with much sorrow that your eyes will be opened.

Our Lord Jesus said the path to eternal life is narrow and difficult, not easy. That is what the philosophy of mere belief does, is makes it easy.

I do not either.

And I know I have eternal life. As Jesus promised. I will never die, As jesus promised. I will never hunger and thirst again, As Jesus Promised I will live forever, As Jesus promised. I will not be condemned, As God promised. I will be ressurected by Christ, As jesus promised and paul confirmed. That I have eternal life. As John said, Based on the promise of the one God, (who can not lie) promised before time began.

Your eternal life is based on your work. Not in the work of Christ. That is sad, and not found in scripture. I pray you repent,



There is no assumption when you continually say your eternal life is based on your work.



I never said it did. I said it proves someone who claimes to be saved, then later gives God the finger and does not believe in him any more. was never saved, THEY DID NOT LOSE IT.

Other passages no one lost it due to sin.



Those who lose their faith never had it. They had belief only. James makes this clear.